Careless

So they're tougher to pitch to but easier to get out? that seems utterly nonsensical. The definition of "tough to pitch to" should be "difficult to keep off base" Question: Where did I write that they are "tougher to picth to". You seem to be having trouble understanding my thesis, so let me simplify it: You didn't have to, that's the quote we're all talking about And what about the rest of my statement... Sorry, I had assumed that your statement had something to do with the quote. I find it reasonable that pitchers would get frustrated trying to get inferior hitters out with the techniques that work on superior hitters and having less success than they figure they should have.

So they're tougher to pitch to but easier to get out? that seems utterly nonsensical. The definition of "tough to pitch to" should be "difficult to keep off base" Question: Where did I write that they are "tougher to picth to". You seem to be having trouble understanding my thesis, so let me simplify it: You didn't have to, that's the quote we're all talking about

Colorado

So they're tougher to pitch to but easier to get out? that seems utterly nonsensical. The definition of "tough to pitch to" should be "difficult to keep off base"

wow, mulder has thrown 68 in 5, rusch 65 in 4

At least we can make life miserable for the Cards.

I respectfully disagree. I don't see how playing the game does anything to make you more likely to be a better manager. It gives you the respect of the players, which is more than any ability to pull together a lineup. It's the same as any job: if you don't have respect for your boss, would you do a good job? The way the baseball world works you have to put in your time in the minors, in the front office, etc. for the major league level. It's an old-school mentality that wouldn't readily accept a manager who has no playing experience. Of course. There are questions of "would you do what your boss told you to", but with baseball, doing a good job is generally straightforward. Get on base. Keep the opposition from getting on base. I disagree with the straightforwardness of doing a good job. A guy with 40 homers and a .320 OBP will get a better contract than a guy at 20 HR/ .360 OBP. So I would think a player would do better for himself at the expense of the team by swinging for the fences every at-bat. I submit that the negative differences between these two hypotheticals is less than the impact of batting neifi 600 times a season

Given that the rest of the cards will likely kill Glendon anyway, I'm fine with that.

So the best strategy would be a revolving door of minor league players. For some reason, no one does this. If Dusty really believed this, you wouldn't see rookies sitting on the bench their entire callup. Believe what you will, but I'll take it from pitchers like Rod Beck, Greg Maddux (who has faced minor-leaguers in spring training games), Ryan Dempster who say that minor-leaguers are tough to face, especially when you're trying to work on stuff. It does not mean that minor-leaguers can't hit good pitches or that they are better hitters or thatteams should stock their bench with minor leaguers. If a guy like Greg Maddux tells me it's difficult (and you should see him when he faces minor leaguers _ he takes it seriously), then it's good enough for me. All I'm trying to do is add a dose of perspective. But that (bolded part) seems to be an inescapable conclusion. But I think you've pointed out the flaw here when you mention "work[ing] on stuff." When do pitchers face minor leaguers? when they're coming back from injury (less than 100%) and working on their stuff. They're trying to throw the things they know they can get major leaguers out with, not destroy a lineup of AA'ers. Now if it turns out this quote is entirely in the context of explaining a pitcher's struggles in a rehab start, I can accept it as a poorly worded but valid explaination, given the above. As to the reaction of posters here (like me) against this quote, you really have a perfect storm here: Dusty likes free swinging. Dusty talking about free swinging being the hardest thing for a pitcher to handle. Dusty saying that minor leaguers are the hardest to pitch to. Dusty not liking to use minor leaguers to hit.

So the best strategy would be a revolving door of minor league players. For some reason, no one does this. If Dusty really believed this, you wouldn't see rookies sitting on the bench their entire callup.

My wife's birth certificate says she was born on July 11th, 1980. It's not even close to accurate. The idea that any government identification document from a third world country can be relied upon is stupid. Pujols looks old. Older than, say, me, despite his younger age. It's no shock that someone born in a country with a horribly corrupt government who looks a decade older than his claimed age isn't believed. edit: frankly, I don't see what the big deal is. If he's older, the cardinals signed him to a contract that he'll be declining by the end of. It doesn't affect the Cubs at all except in making the Cards more likely to sign/have signed a bad contract. Presumably that's a good thing. If he's his stated age, he's a double freak and congrats cards fans. He's the best. Hopefully not for long

oK, I missed the article. link?

When I think of the number of times I've had shoulder/wrist/elbow injuries from weird/random things that might have kept me from pitching, I'm not surprised.

What an accomplishment. Contract extensions for everybody.Boo for having cardinals of any sort in your sig As a Ball State student I wholeheartedly disagree! And yet, there's a complete lack of such birds in your sig. Not anymore :D A man of [revolting] convictions. :wink:

Unless they're in possession of bullion or wenches.

huh? 2004 when he was coming off fighting Estes for the honor of being the worst pitcher in the National League in the previous year? He was 6-2 with a 3.47 ERA, and 2 saves. That is why Hendry extended him. Nevermind that his lifetime ERA 4.88 or that his previous best was a 4.01. The point was one season does not make you a good or even decent pitcher. Oh, Glendon in 2005. Yeah, that was bad. There was actually some SABR support for the resigning, interestingly.

What an accomplishment. Contract extensions for everybody.Boo for having cardinals of any sort in your sig As a Ball State student I wholeheartedly disagree! And yet, there's a complete lack of such birds in your sig.

What an accomplishment. Contract extensions for everybody.Boo for having cardinals of any sort in your sig

I say yes, this is the game that turns our fortunes around by starting a series win against the Cards that results in a Baker extension. The good luck couldn't last forever.

I'm going with this one as my favorite. " i do have tempurepic bed, so it comfrtable."

I'd bet on it.

We know why baker claims to have wanted to avoid pitching to Lenny harris. I doubt there were dozens of injuries/illnesses/sneezing attacks preventing pitchers other than Remlinger from facing lefties. there is such a massive body of evidence here (some of which we have Dusty's alleged reasoning for) that I don't see how you can dismiss it. Frankly, I don't know if dusty is generally stupid or irrational. I'd hope that when I say something like I did about a player/manager in this context (as opposed to say, "you can't arrest me, I'm a basketball player" thread), people would understand that it's a comment about their function as a player/manager. I do know that he is stupid and/or irrational as a manager. A few moves he makes with reasons that later turn out to be rational (or moves that were irrational but succeeded) do not change that fact.

This got me thinking that I might start categorizing quotes from baker under "stupid" and "crazy" This one is hard to figure out since it's a combination of the two. Yes, it's stupid, but it's so clearly false that it's crazy...

I respectfully disagree. I don't see how playing the game does anything to make you more likely to be a better manager. It gives you the respect of the players, which is more than any ability to pull together a lineup. It's the same as any job: if you don't have respect for your boss, would you do a good job? The way the baseball world works you have to put in your time in the minors, in the front office, etc. for the major league level. It's an old-school mentality that wouldn't readily accept a manager who has no playing experience. Of course. There are questions of "would you do what your boss told you to", but with baseball, doing a good job is generally straightforward. Get on base. Keep the opposition from getting on base.

Dusty fails to make the obvious choice on a daily basis. He is, however, both stupid and irrational, so it is difficult to predict how he will behave. Stupid, irrational and obvious. Wow, well I guess you should know since you have access to all the inside workings of the Cubs clubhouse and know everything there is to know about baseball. Because, to me, thats what it would take to make such a bold statement. Certain aspects of baseball may seem simple to us, but I bet if you talk to a lot of major league managers today, they will say that there are very few "obvious" choices in baseball except for the ones the fans tell us about. Of course, I could very well be wrong and baseball actually is a simple game with obvious choices that truly boils down to numbers and doesn't really involve human beings, but I'm certainly not smart enough or exposed to enough inside information to know this for sure. If you are, more power to ya. As far as this thread is concerned, I guess we'll see who is right when Dusty either starts Nevin in place of Murton on a regular basis or doesn't and uses him as a fill in for Lee and a platoon with Jones. Read the sections I've bolded, Cubswin. What I'm saying is that there are very few obvious choices in this complex game except for, of course, all the ones that many fans think are obvious. So the use of the word obvious in the first bolded section is referring to those moves that us fans think are obvious, like starting Womack over Perez against Eric Milton the other day. Those of us who have "lost faith" in Dusty's ability to make the obvious choices might be thinking that those choices are more obvious than they may actually be, and that if we gave the benefit of the doubt for just a moment and looked deeper, that we indeed will find reasons for making a choice other than the "obvious" one. In the context of this thread, if Dusty sits Murton and starts Nevin on a regular basis, I will wonder why, but before I conclude that he is an idiot, I will look into every possible reason. Of course, that hasn't happened yet. What will you be saying if the man who you have dubbed as stupid and irrational plays Nevin primarily at 1B until Lee gets back and then brings him off the bench against lefties? How could a guy who is truly stupid and incapable of rational thought make such a seemingly logical decision based on the information available to us fans? because it's obvious. ](*,)