minnesotacubsfan

growing up, TB was one of the worst franchises in history of any sport with only NO to rival them. Detroit, it seemed to me at the time, would someday rise to claim a championship with guys like Barry Sanders. shows you how much I can predict this sport

I tend to discredit the later round picks so much that I wouldn't even think to package them to move up, but I also didn't realize they had any additional picks in those later rounds. That being said, what would (2) 6th round picks get you? I cant imagine too much, 5 slots in the 3rd? Was curious as to how valuable Mack would be, to that end, started looking at some statistics, found, Leonard Floyd. horsefeathering Leonard Floyd is arguably having a better season, its depressing, Mack is longer the elite defensive player every offense has to plan around. Really, do not believe he has much trade value also found horsefeathering GB has 12 sacks all season. They had only 9 going into the Bears game, just underlines the joke the Bears call an OL. Floyd always had talent, but by now its pretty clear that Pagano needs to be coaching dominoes, not an NFL team. Everything that man touches dies

yes, thats why I tend to ignore the idea. one thing that's going to suck is when Allen Robinson walks. Hes on pace for a 100 catch 1200 yrd 8 TD season. I tend to bag on him when he loses those 50/50 balls, but hes having a pretty solid year

I feel that way too, but especially/only in the 1st. BPA has to be the tactic as there are just too many holes to fill. If you can trade back and get good returns in the 1st, its also a very good option imo. That being said, there are some decent QB prospects in this draft and if one falls to them, I feel like they have to take the shot. I just DO NOT want to see them trading up for anyone in particular, they dont have the draft capital to spare It of course just depends on circumstance. If they have a cloud of 4 that are very close maybe you consider trading down 3 for an extra mid round pick from 15 to 18. Later in the draft, popping on a trade up and parting with a 6th, where they probably have 3-4 sixths, knock yourself out. Either way, I don't think trading down is going to dramatically improve their draft strength. If they want to actually improve draft capital it's by figuring out which vets, who could be gone in a year anyways, might net something. Thats how you are more likely to significantly alter your draft capital. Mack and Fuller are probably the only significant guys who might net you something interesting. So gotta figure out your price. Anyone else might get you some late picks... Just a matter of taking what you could get if you might be cutting them anyways (see, Hicks) I tend to discredit the later round picks so much that I wouldn't even think to package them to move up, but I also didn't realize they had any additional picks in those later rounds. That being said, what would (2) 6th round picks get you? I cant imagine too much, 5 slots in the 3rd?

I feel that way too, but especially/only in the 1st. BPA has to be the tactic as there are just too many holes to fill. If you can trade back and get good returns in the 1st, its also a very good option imo. That being said, there are some decent QB prospects in this draft and if one falls to them, I feel like they have to take the shot. I just DO NOT want to see them trading up for anyone in particular, they dont have the draft capital to spare

I thought Trask has the "big arm". whatever, if he is a slow, big noodle armed QB (anything less the Cutler with Trask's profile would be noodle-armed IMO), I want nothing to do with him mid 1st, there are likely to be far more talented options available mid 1 like OT, WR, EDGE, etc. All of which we need. (Now that I say this, we is most certainly the second coming of Roethlisberger...) If we take a project, I'd rather draft JT Daniels in the 3rd/4th whatever. He's always had the talent, its the injury that derailed him in college. JT Daniels is well known enough that I can't see him falling that far even with the abbreviated number of games he's played. That said, I think he's headed back to school and will have a chance to threaten Sam Howell for top QB in 2022. Maybe he wouldn't fall that far, but if there is a legit run on QBs in the 1st, the market for teams drafting QB's might dry up to where hes available in the 2nd or 3rd. But also, I agree its very possible he doesn't come out this year. There was a rumor that he might. ETA: he's just a guy I'd keep a close eye on

HARD pass maybe in the 5th

Jay probably could have ran a decent RPO, at least athletically. Perhaps not mentally. By the end of his run I guess they were doing a tiny bit of it. Also is Trask as big of an arm talent as Jay was? Comparison aside, that's kind of the point though too. I'm not necessarily opposed to the fact that we're resigned to possibly reaching on QBs, but I'm not sure Nagy need figure into it. Let's not worry about a system guy. I kind of rhink a lot about the success Buffalo is seeing with Allen this year. It took a few years but they developed him underneath a D head coach and a OC who wasn't a big system guy. Compared to Mitch's development, light years better and they were similarly risky/raw projects. I thought Trask has the "big arm". whatever, if he is a slow, big noodle armed QB (anything less the Cutler with Trask's profile would be noodle-armed IMO), I want nothing to do with him mid 1st, there are likely to be far more talented options available mid 1 like OT, WR, EDGE, etc. All of which we need. (Now that I say this, we is most certainly the second coming of Roethlisberger...) If we take a project, I'd rather draft JT Daniels in the 3rd/4th whatever. He's always had the talent, its the injury that derailed him in college.

Kyle Trask screams Jay Cutler to me, big, strong arm but not the type of play action RPO QB we thought Nagy would be utilizing when they hired him eta: thats not to say I don't think he could be a solid NFL QB, he just doesnt seem to fit the direct I thought the offense wanted to go

how do you feel about Lazor's play calling? Granted, it could be hard to judge based on the junk time he had on Sunday night, but could the combo of Nagy HC and Lazor play caller work going forward? I thought Lazor dialed up some good plays, some Mitch hit on, others he completely missed. Which begs the question, can Mitch grow with Lazor or is he just flat out too stupid? I never thought playcalling was the problem really with Nagy. It's just a general offensive philosophy that doesn't really have a go-to, bread-and-butter type play or concept. And I judge that based on the fact that Bears can't even script points. They don't score consistently in the first half of games, even this week got their TD with seconds left in the half. They don't score at all in the 3rd quarter. First and third quarters are supposed to be when you script the first 10-15 plays designed to score points. In the last 1 2/3 seasons they've been abysmal in those scripted plays. I've thought they can script as evident in the first series success they had the past few seasons. Its when Nagy tries to game-day adjust he gets too predictable- its the 3rd, 4th and 5th possessions when things would get bogged down

I maintain that a combo of Pace and Nagy making that pick together has a legit chance to select the right guy. This staff has had its doubts about Mitch from day one. They brought in veteran babysitters for their knowledge, and sure, Pace grossly overpaid them but that's a different issue. Pace has a valuation problem which showed in his trade ups and several, but not all, signings. There's reason to move on from Pace and Nagy this year, but I doubt they'll hire a better duo. Last time they moved on from mediocrity because they couldn't figure out the QB position they had a disaster hire. I think they are at least as likely to have Pace and Nagy collectively figure out a QB than they are to find a new GM/coach/QB. There can be value in stability, especially when you're coming out of a decade of turnover and turmoil. Just going back to the Ditka decade, that was followed by Wanny getting 6 years, Jauron getting 5, Lovie getting 9 and then Trestman with 2 and Fox with 3. They have to be thinking about turnover every 2-3 years not looking good. I think ownership wants to make it work with these two guys. They aren't incompetent. They put together the first 12 win team in over a decade. They've fielded competitive teams. Barring a meltdown to end the season, they can see justification for keeping the band together. Might as well extend the guys through 2023 at what would have to be a discount coming off down years. Do away with the lame duck concerns for the next two years while having them live through their own 2020 signing decisions. Yeah, I kinda feel that way too. I do buy that the McKaskey's love Pace, and the whole revamping of Halas Hall shows that they were in on Pace for the long haul. My first hangup is the lame duck contract situation. I do kinda feel like the decision is either fire or extend this offseason. Can't have a lame duck situation. That benefits nobody. The other is that GMs don't typically get to hire 3 coaches. Maybe there is some legitimacy to Fox being pushed on him and not counting against Pace, but I feel you have to get rid of Nagy if not Pace. Nagy's record is fine, but clearly not sustainable without an offense, and he was brought here to fix the offense. He was brought in to groom Trubisky, then got a handpicked QB that knew his system to show it wasn't him but the QB, and both have failed. I don't think you can bring in a new QB and assume he can put him in the best position at this point. While it may be unfair to Nagy that he was strapped to Mitch (especially if Pace is not), it kinda is what it has to be at this point. how do you feel about Lazor's play calling? Granted, it could be hard to judge based on the junk time he had on Sunday night, but could the combo of Nagy HC and Lazor play caller work going forward? I thought Lazor dialed up some good plays, some Mitch hit on, others he completely missed. Which begs the question, can Mitch grow with Lazor or is he just flat out too stupid?

ah, I did misread your post then

jersey, I dont know where you get your faith, but send me some please I would say that Pace and Nagy are certainly better hires the Trestman and Emery, but I fear their issue is more then just QB. Pace drafted Mitch, if he had concerns why did he trade UP to get him? Why not just stand pat and take what comes to you? And I realize it was only one slot, but there is little to no evidence he was going to lose Mitch to some other mystery team other then the idea that SF was suggesting it iirc.

yes, but Pace is a moron. I think we all know that

yea, thats JUST what we horsefeathering need if the Bears get the last seed hey better run the horsefeathering table through the SB. it would be the only possible good outcome

not that I would do it again because he deeply overpaid, but Graham hasn't been the worst addition. He's played adequate (5 tds in 11 games) and gives Kmet some solid tutorship. As for Pace, I want him gone. I don't trust he would be able to stand pat if it looked like he wasn't going to get one of the top 4 QBs in the draft. I worry deeply he would trade up again and further handcuff the team with lack of draft pics. Thats the mess we got into with Cutler (2 1st rds) and Trubisky. Enough. If you cant get one of the top 4, stay where you are and draft best avail, preferably at OT, WR, EDGE The 5 TDs don't really tell a true story. The red zone is the only area he's been good in and honest to God, they could have kept Shaheen to just be a big goalline target. Hopefully there's some serious mentorship going on for Kmet. Shaheen barely has 5 tds in his CAREER. Like I said, I wouldn't do the deal again because of what we paid Graham, but I don't feel like its the biggest mistake Pace has made. Its really just another mistake, but one you can deal with. What might be a bigger problem is the way Nagy uses TE's, ie play calling Kmet gets to learn from one of the truly good TE's in the game. Granted it doesn't mean anything if Kmet is a tool or no-talent hack, but that hasn't been my impression of him. I feel like its 89% play calling

not that I would do it again because he deeply overpaid, but Graham hasn't been the worst addition. He's played adequate (5 tds in 11 games) and gives Kmet some solid tutorship. As for Pace, I want him gone. I don't trust he would be able to stand pat if it looked like he wasn't going to get one of the top 4 QBs in the draft. I worry deeply he would trade up again and further handcuff the team with lack of draft pics. Thats the mess we got into with Cutler (2 1st rds) and Trubisky. Enough. If you cant get one of the top 4, stay where you are and draft best avail, preferably at OT, WR, EDGE Eh. I know everyone hates trades up, but the Trubisky trade up wasn't the issue. It was Trubisky the player. The Chiefs and Texans traded MUCH more for Mahomes and Watson and nobody cares because they are top 3 QBs. I wouldn't mind if Pace traded up again in this draft. My issue would be with the fact that the man who picked Trubisky, Foles, and Glennon would be picking the QB. I wouldn't disagree about trading up this season if I felt Pace could competently make that pick, buuuu.... also, trading up one pick because you felt threatened when there were 3 possible outcomes all with talent was horsefeathering stupid. I flat out disagree with you on that. He was playing checkers when the rest of the NFL was playing chess.

not that I would do it again because he deeply overpaid, but Graham hasn't been the worst addition. He's played adequate (5 tds in 11 games) and gives Kmet some solid tutorship. As for Pace, I want him gone. I don't trust he would be able to stand pat if it looked like he wasn't going to get one of the top 4 QBs in the draft. I worry deeply he would trade up again and further handcuff the team with lack of draft pics. Thats the mess we got into with Cutler (2 1st rds) and Trubisky. Enough. If you cant get one of the top 4, stay where you are and draft best avail, preferably at OT, WR, EDGE

I'm still trying to figure out what you wanted to post in the first place

Hope you're correct, regardless of Packer fan' post they've had horseshoes up their asses with Farve and Rodgers. I'm not saying Farve and Rodgers were shots in the dark but, as great as they turned out? No. Which is kinda what I said. They deliberately traded a #1 to get an unknown in Favre. And deliberately took a QB in the 1st round even though they had a HoFer currently on roster. Of course it worked out better than expected. But I'd hardly call it a horseshoe. yes, but here's our point and I'm going to say this directly because you are on a Chicago sports message board: when the bears trade picks to "get their guy" at QB, it becomes a catastrophic event that sends the team reeling backward with nothing gained. It kills all enthusiasm we can have for the team, and in general, it looks horsefeathering terrible, no matter who the poor unlucky sap happens to be horseshoe or no horseshoe, horsefeathers GB

and try and have an offensive line at the same time . . . there is definitely (and has been for a while) an issue with the organizational philosophy on draft day. They are uniquely adept at drafting defensive players, unbelievably ignorant with regards to offensive players. I realize that in today's NFL, you have to pick your poison and draft heavily on one side or the other, but in doing so they need to at least try and not kill the other 1/2. How they could go out and trade everything for Cutler and throw him behind 5 turnstiles on the Oline is beyond me. No WR's. Nothing. just a horsefeathering jersey and a medical plan

I went back and read some articles about Lovies involvement in the FO and it wasn't as much as I thought it was...I rescind the post

just having stability at QB with Cutler seems like such an unknown luxury now

eh, they had Cutler, he was decent. unfortunately he was just overshadowed by GB pulling HOF QB's out of thin air. I think the key for the Bears is they simply have to take a "quantity is quality" approach and draft qb's nearly every year until they find one that can stick. I don't mean in the 1st every year either, but in any round where they find someone who has potential and makes sense for that round (ie, not a reach). I would say Cutty, as much as I loved him was decidedly average, but also the best QB I've seen on the Bears since maybe Kramer's one season in the early 90s. At his best he could lift the Bears offense up to win games. At his worst, he was the reason we lost games. We saw more of the latter than the former, but he did have quite a few games where he played good enough for the Bears to win. Clearly he had some issues with coaching staff and personnel put out there. Maybe he could have been a lower rung pro bowl guy with the right coaching, but probably not. although its hard for me to understand what a "pro-bowl caliber qb" is being a Bears fan, Cutler does own many of the Bears passing records and was QB for 8 seasons which is unfathomable for every other Bears QB in my lifetime, and most of them from before my lifetime. he was...OUR BEST! and yet pretty ok - nothing great

I'm a Riddick fan. Obviously the parallels with Mayock (who has done a solid job w/ Oakland) are there. Former player, but he does have NFL scouting and front office experience. And frankly, I'd love if they'd hire a minority for the first time in team history. All these white guys haven't worked out, so why not? Lovie Smith eta: Lovie obviously wasn't front office, so maybe I'm misreading your post. But he did have a pretty heavy say in personal and org direction after the Super Bowl, almost to the level of a Pete Carroll.