i don't mean to overstate things, just saying that Penn State is pretty decent this year and losing to them isn't as bad as losing to Michigan or Northwestern might be. have they passed Illinois as a program? no way. but i love how all you illini guys do is bitch and moan about your own program, but god forbid someone says something about it. Ok so which is it, has Penn State passed the Illini's program or not? I have no problem with somebody saying something about the Illini's program, when what is being said is true. But in this case your original comment was ridiculous. Penn State isnt a good team, and either are the Illini. Is this the worse loss the Illini have had? No way we just lost last week to Tenn St., but its definatley not a loss to be proud of right now, and it wont be a loss to be proud of at the end of the year. Penn State will be in the bottom 5 with Illinois, Northwestern, Michigan, and Iowa when the season is done. which is it? I think i clearly retracted my first statement. i'm not going to predict where Penn State will finish in the conference, but even if they finish "bottom five", that could mean seventh, which is higher than most predicted going in. Yes, their SOS is bad, but as they saying goes, you play the teams on your schedule. They won their ACC/Big 10 Shootout game, are undefeated at home, and 2-0 (both on the road) in conference so far. Penn State has a long way to go, but don't hold such a high and mighty attitude about your precious Illini. Yes, your program is better, but it's certainly trending downwards right now. your recruiting power should allow you to rebound quickly, while Penn State has to prove it can be at all consistent (which it has failed to do year to year). Should be interesting ETA: Nice of you to mention PSU's 119 RPI while leaving out the fact that Illinois is 128 (with a SOS of 54) What would be the point of me mentioning Illinois RPI? Ive clearly stated many times throughout this thread that Illinois sucks. My whole point was about you saying losing to Penn State isnt such a bad loss, and may look good at the end of the year, which is false. Losing to a team with an RPI of 119 and a terrible SOS will never be considered a good loss. Not to mention your comment about Penn States program surpassing Illinois which you quickly backpeddeld on when callled out about it. it wasn't backpedaling, it was clarifying. think what you want, but enjoy penn state finishing ahead of you this year in conference