Little Slide Rooter

I think Chris Carpenter, John Gaub, and Jeff Beliveau all have much better shots than Castillo does. Plus you'd need a second lefty in the pen. I agree that Castillo does seem to be the odd man out. Castillo is young but has never pitched above A but has only been pitching for 2 years. I'm very intrigued by Weathers and of course Beliveau. Carpenter has great stuff and he and Gaub already have their clocks ticking so I think all 4 of them should be in line before Lendy. Maybe not Beliveau to avoid starting his clock if it isnt necessary.

Lendy still has a shot. Assuming theyre not traded, Marmol and Russell are the only ones guaranteed pen spots. If Corpas looks awful in ST I can't see them keeping him. There's also Cashner and Shark, but one of them could very well end up in the rotation especially if Garzas traded. Beyond them, there's Corpas, Carpenter, Castillo, Weathers, Dolis, Gaub, Beliveau, Maine, and Stevens for the rest of the spots. Also Kerry Wood who hasnt yet been signed and if he was as much of a sure thing as some think he'd be signed by now. Would he even want to come back if the so called video game rebuild becomes reality? Also there's Coleman and Jackson who could be more valuable starting in Iowa in case we need them sent up as replacements for injury.

Yeah, what's he ever done there? He'll definitely enter the Hall wearing an Angels hat. Albert Pujols definitely isn't going to be a St. Louis in the same sense that Michael Jordan isn't a Chicago icon. Ok, I think I've give this troll enough of a Christmas dinner.

Yeah but we still had 5 years of Mike Harkey 3-4 were likely to be productive. That's pretty much the same the Braves should have gotten from GM as they were exactly the same age.

This must be the guy who started the Pujols on the decline thread last year.

Now that Sappelt pretty much serves the same purpose as Johnson, is it too late to back out of that and tell him if you cant hook on anywhere else he's welcome to a minor league deal with an invite? Also, I suppose it's possible that someone else on the 40 man could be included in that trade or could be traded on their own. There are a lot of guys on the 40 man I wouldnt miss if their spot was needed for someone else that could actually help us win in the next few years. And there's also the out of the box thinking that we could pass on Kerry Wood even if he is willing to to play for minimim wage.

Someone who's capeable of hitting the ball.

This should definitely be filed under for what it's worth, but this evening i was chatting with my cousin in law(wifes cousins husband) who's an assitant producer or production assistant for ESPN 1000 and part of his job is booking the guests and he chats with these media guys while setting things up or when theyre doing in the studio interviews, so he may not be The Kapman but he does end up with some degree of inside info that we don't have and we were discussing the Cubs and the "rebuild" and when I brought up not going after Fielder he said believe me, The Cubs arent completely out of that race. Now he's a big Sox fan so we're not talking another Cubs fanboy looking for an excuse for false hope.

Yeah, I knew that sounded familiar. The fact is, unless you're the Yankees all teams are going to go through those down years. We all have those prospects we hope to depend on to make that phase as short as possible, but it's simply not realistic to assume that all of those prospects are going to pan out and give you an instant transition. A few could become stars. A few more could become everyday players, more still could become role players and then there's those who will simply fall flat.

And what is the plan in place? Hope that Allan Craig and David Freese are better than they are? Aren't they already hurt half the time as is? Hope Holliday and Wainright don't age? Yeah, you have some nice pieces in the farm but they're far from the point that they can bank on a future sans a rebuild in the next 2-4 years. yeah, we know the Cubs will suck in 2012 and probably 2013 but that doesn't have anything to do with the Cardinals sucking past 2013.

Actually, the last proposal might work out. I don't know much about Segedin, but if the Yankees really want Garza they should have to come out of those 3. While they didn't want to move that much for Danks now that he's off the board as us Gio they could have to say uncle. Them again, it is the Yankees so they could prefer to sign Jackson and 1 of Oswalt or Kuroda and wait until next year and go after Cain, Hamels, or Greinke.

The trade that you said we were giving up too much had the Yankees giving up Banuelos (to the Cubs) and Betances (to the Padres). I told you that you are hard to please. Im not saying that I wouldnt like the last proposal, the Yankees wouldn't go for it. I really can't see them moving Banuelos and Betance. They'd probably try to move Nova well before either and I'm sure that a lot of NSBBers would waste little time with the Randy Wells comments if we got Nova.

Dont think the Yankees would do it. They reportedly refused to part with 2 of their top 3 guys(Montero, Banuelos, Betances) for Danks who's younger although has 1 less year under tea control, but he's also lefty and has overall better career numbers than Garza.

Right. Winning the WS in 2011 was a completely unrelated event. Good to learn from a team that paid $227M for Soriano and Zambrano. #-o The Cards have only 5 years left with Holliday. My guess is 3-4 of those will be productive. That's pretty much what the Angels should get with AP as they are exactly the same age. But, with a ten year contract. You get that doncha? Sorry, just not sure how much needs to be explained to a guy who elect his governors for terms of ten to life. Yes, The Cardinals still have a good but old team, but you need to stop acting as though the loss of best player of this generation isnt going to phase them. If it were 2005, having Beltran, Holliday, and Berkman through the heart of the order would be outworldly, but I really dont like the chances of the killer B's stayng healthy for the majority of the season and at this point, those guys are key to the team and you can't just dig into AAA and replace them with some version of Jake LaHoffpauir.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-111224-mlb-whispers,0,7654232.story Come on B2B, it's christmas. Give it your best shot. Merry Christmas: Cubs trade Garza and Dolis to the Yankees and Junior Lake to the Padres. Yankees trade Betances to the Padres and Robert Segedin and Banuelos to the Cubs Padres trade Rizzo to the Cubs Cubs end up with Rizzo, Banuelos, and Segedin Padres end up with Lake and Betances Yankees end up with Garza and Dolis If we're giving up that much we best be ending up with either Montero or Headley as well. Granted, the Yankees wont be giving up their 3 top prospects in a deal in which they only get Garza and Dolis, but with the package we end up with, i guess it would be decent for Garza alone but I wouldnt be willing to throw in 2 quality young players as well. Even if te arguement were that Dolis and Lake could be viewed as the Epstein comp, thats still too much.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-111224-mlb-whispers,0,7654232.story Come on B2B, it's christmas. Give it your best shot.

I don't know all of their ages, but Carpenter, Berkman, Beltran, and Furcal are all old and fragile. Holliday seems to be becoming fragile as well. Wainright just came off of TJS which shouldnt hold him back assuming it was successful but its not like he didn't have his share of injuries before that. In the minors they have Cox, Miller and one other top pitching prospect and then there's Jay, Freese, and Craig, all who could be big in their log term plans but the majority of the guys on the current roster are win now players and when they all depart in the next 2-3 years they'll have some major rebuilding to do.

With the Yankees, I'd want Montero and one of Banuelos or Betances and they wouldn't do that for Danks who's younger, a lefty, and I hate to say it but overall better so they won't do it for Garza. I know that Garza has an extra year under team control but I'm sure that the Yankees would have no trouble extending either one.

Precisely why I am very skeptical over the video game rebuild. Nobody is going to pay the expensive ticket prices in the game to see Reed Johnson, Manny Corpas, and Travis Wood. The ceremonial return of Kerry Wood isn't going to cut it either. Yeah, the meatball fans will be the first to go, but there's a lot of them and meatball money is no less valuable the saber metric obsessed money. Fans are getting antsy. Maybe it's the 100+ years of futility, maybe it's not wanting to go back to a losing team after tasting the closest thing to a long term winner in anyone's lifetime. The fact is, we've known of the rebuilding plan all along. How many guys on the current roster did anyone ever expect to see or even want to see in 3 years? Not many. Castro is the only must keep. Anyone else may as well have a price tag instead of a jersey number. Just because The Kapman, who nobodies ever taken serious throws out boogie man words like rebuild and overhaul doesnt even suggest that we won't compete anytime soon. The reason so many people seem to associate the term rebuild with years of futility is because in the past the teams that have done complete rebuilds and overhauls have been small market teams like the Pirates, Marlins, and A's. Well, we're not them and we have over 70 million dollars to play with in the next 2 years. Other big market teams that have recently talked rebuild have been the Dodgers, whose rebuild starte with a monster extension to Kemp and probably Kerahaw to follow ad the Mets who are still a financial mess.

If Sappelt is a corner guy only, then I think it's a pretty big longshot that he's more than a marginal starter. I'd be all for some hybrid form of platoon between him and Soriano to try to keep Soriano healthy, but I wouldn't tank what little chance we have to get value out of Soriano on the longshot chance that Sappelt improves with the beat enough to hold down a corner OF spot. If he can play CF well, though, that's a different story entirely. Does Sappelt have to improve to beat out Soriano? I mean, what's a realistic projection for Sappelt? 280/320/400 with good defense? "Marginal starter" is a good tag for that production, but I'm not sure Soriano can do better at this point. You aren't going to put an $18 million OF that you are trying to trade on the bench to play a "marginal starter". Yeah, if they're going to get rid of Soriano, the're going to get rid of Soriano, but I don't think that Dave Sappelt is going to be the reason. If anything he renders the newly re-signed Reed Johnson even more pointless he was earlier this week.

Assuming we don't sign Prince and instead go with, say, Rizzo, I see almost no way to build a contender for 2013. Maybe if Stewart breaks out, BJax develops quickly, we sign Cespedes and he pans out quickly, Castro continues to improve, and we hit on two premiere pitching FAs next offseason, we might have a shot at contending. But that offense still looks pretty weak with an aging Soto and DeJesus, Barney at second, a still developing Rizzo at first, and something in left (Soriano? somebody else? If so, who?). Theo may pull off some magic that stuns me and has us competing in 2013, but if we punt this year like it appears we are and go into full rebuild mode, I simply don't think the talent (offensive in particular) will be there for us to be a likely contender in 2013. At best we'll have the same shot at contending next year as we did at the start of this offseason - a longshot if we make some key moves. I generally feel the same way, but that's why Ricketts weant through the trouble of assembling this front office and didn't just post a help wanted sign at NSBB. If the plan was to throw a combined 250 or so mil at Prince Fielder and CJ Wilson and then another 100-200 mil on something else next year I'd be more than OK with it but that's something you need some kind of dream team brain trust to do. Sure you need someone assemble the rest of the team but I can safely assume that any respectable GM could manage that. I think that if nothing else a watchable team will start to materialize by this time next year and there's always the chance that they can still surprise us this offseason. Might not be Prince Fielder but as I said when Theo and Jed first came on board, I'm very interested to see what happens. You know when some senseless tragedy happen and the religious goofs line up to say that its all part of Gods plan to make us stronger? That's how I feel about what these guys are doing. I may bitch and moan about the hardships and pestilence along the way but I have faith in the final product.

Since we don't plan to contend for a couple of years, we have a couple meaningless seasons where we can shop Soriano at the trade deadline and hope some desperate team bites. It's not very likely, but since we're not trying to win I'd rather just hold onto him and see if somebody gets desperate or see if he has a big half season. However, what evidence is there that we don't plan to contend for a couple of years? Complete overhaul and rebuild? So what? Aside from Castro and Garza, we have a bunch of expendable players. We won't be major players for Fielder? If he's not our guy, he's not our guy. I don't expect to compete in 2011, but between the end of the past season and the end of next season, there's something like 75 mil coming off the books. While there's no reason to spend it all immediately I really don't see us using a good chunk of it and it wont be on 50-75 Reed Johnson's and Manny Corpases. If we don't sign Prince Fielder, all that means is that we don't sign Prince Fielder and it doesn't give me any indication that we plan to punt the next 3 years.

What's your address so I can send you a Soriano jersey?

Trouble with long term contracts is that they're net good if the player starts to suck but that's something you have to accept. I'm sure the Angels understood that Albert Pujols wasn't going to be nearly as good when he's 42 or 44 or 46 depending on how old he really is currently.

i was reading the twitter quotes from theo about t. wood's cost-controlled years and torreyes having an advanced contact tool playing as a teenager in full-season ball and thinking "boy jim hendry really wouldn't have said stuff like this" i will also add that hendry never, ever would have made this trade. marshall is a good player and hendry never grasped the concept of selling high or acquiring young, cost-controlled assets for an asset that is very good but about to become expensive. to be fair, hendry unloading derosa was definitely a sell high move. True, but that fact that the main reason they unloaded DeRosa was to sign Bradley makes it somewhat of a tainted win.