RichHillIsABeast

I'd feel more comfortable if the Bears were winning in the 4th quarter. :lol:

agreed. i think colvin will also be in this catagory. Colvin will be underrated by who? BA loves the kid. Yeah, after complaining that he was a "reach" in the first round. They rated him 170 out of 200 prospects going into the draft. Dude's are going to eat some crow in the coming years. They also rated him the number one prospect in the northwest league and gushed about his "tantalizing package of five average of better tools" I don't understand why you seem to take Colvin's draft ranking so personally. And I also don't understand why you are so sure that Colvin will excel. It is impossible to be sure that a player who has played no higher than short season A ball will do anything. It's just lame hearing BA rag on a draft pick and then a handfull of ABs later they change their tune. Same guy. Same skillset and makeup. Different day. Gotta love the bandwagon action over at BA. I'm sure they'll hop off if he struggles and be right back on after he adjusts. How do I know Colvin will do anything? Wilken's 1st round draft record, that's how. You can't get much better. 95% of his 1st round picks make the bigs.

LOL. How bad would you feel if you slept through the Super Bowl?

agreed. i think colvin will also be in this catagory. Colvin will be underrated by who? BA loves the kid. Yeah, after complaining that he was a "reach" in the first round. They rated him 170 out of 200 prospects going into the draft. Dude's are going to eat some crow in the coming years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FecOdhDnStc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5msHfZWPJs <<< Crank the volume

He's not spiking fastballs into the dirt. They're sliders. And funnily enough, guys swing at that all the time. You know you're slider is good when you throw nothing but sliders in an AB on a regular basis. Wuertz is awesome. He'd be a better closer than Dempster, that's for sure. * I like Eyre too. Ohman is a LOOGY, you're right. And a darn good one at that.

Murton was a product of the Red Sox, not the Cubs. I hope Wilken turns things around, but the Cubs farm system is currently below average. Murton had roughly the same number of ABs in the BoSox and Cubs farm systems before reaching the majors. He hadn't made it out of A+ when he was traded to the Cubs - hardly a finished product. The farm system isn't currently below average. It has a number of players who are very underrated. Colvin and Samardzija being prime examples. 95% of Wilken's 1st round picks made the majors. The odds are pretty good Colvin does as well. Wilken had Samardzija as the #1 pitcher overall. He's dismissed as "too raw" by the rating systems. Our system is going to look a lot better next season once these guys get to show their stuff.

You like to take the stance that none of the players currently on the Cubs were players that the Cubs might have had a chance to sign or trade for. As if the only deals Hendry makes are the only deals he had any chance to make. That's fine if you think along those lines, but I certainly don't. While you can give your list of reasons for each player I list that could have been Cubs, I'm just using examples. My examples of what would have improved the Cubs are just about endless. I could go back a few years and include Carlos Beltran, Vladmir Guerrero, Miguel Tejada when they were free agents themselves. I'm not the one who was standing at a podium announcing to the world that I was going to bring a World Series to the north side of Chicago. Jim Hendry did that. If he can be so bold to make that prediction, then he better back up his words with moves that will get the team there. Soriano was a pretty good score. Outside of Soriano, the moves he made were pretty generic. I'll give him credit for re-signing Aramis as well, just so you don't think I'm all gloom and doom. The lack of direction is quite real. The farm system has gone from being one of the best in the league to below average. The team itself has gone from 1st to worst. This is also very real. But, the thing that really makes me disrespect anything you have to say about this is when you sit there and tell me or someone else that this isn't fantasy baseball. What, do you think I'm some little kid who is watching baseball for the first time? I'm 43 years old and have been watching Cub baseball religiously since 1971. Our opinions don't have to agree to have a mature and respectful debate. You don't have to drag insults into it to make your point. If the team didn't have the resources to go out and build a World Series team, maybe THEY shouldn't have been standing in front of a podium announcing to the world they would go out and get the players necessary to win. The team, as it is currently constructed, isn't any better than some of the other teams in the NL. You might feel that Cesar Izturis (a guy who has played a total of less than a season of baseball over the last two years and whose numbers have plummeted) is the SS that can take us to the promised land, but I don't. You might feel that Greg Maddux for Cesar Izturis was a good trade. Personally, I think we got better for Todd Walker. The problems of Jim Hendry extend beyond what he did this offseason. He had problems in previous seasons as well. When you compound the problems from year to year, the end product will suffer, which is exactly what we are seeing now. Would Miguel Tejada, Vladmir Guerrero or Carlos Beltran have turned down 8/136? Probably not. Each is either a better overall player than Soriano, or performs above and beyond their position of need. Agree or disagree. But, please leave the "this isn't fantasy baseball" crap out of your argument to keep this a respectful debate. I respect your opinion even though I don't agree with it. Saying we should trade for the likes of Ichiro, ARod, Tejada, etc is not a tenable theory. None of those players are currently available for any package we're likely to offer. I was all for getting the likes of Tejada, Guerrero, or Beltran, but the Trib Co didn't want it enough to be competitive in those markets. Hendry can't outbid anyone if they don't open the purse strings. They finally did and whallah - Soriano in Wrigley. Maddux for Izturis was a fine trade considering the other options. What offers were out there that were better? Hendry asked for prospects and was denied. Should we have held onto Maddux for the second half of a dismal season? Our farm system isn't "below average." It produced the likes of Murton and Hill. Have you checked out Wilken's draft record? We're going to be producing ML talent consistently from here on out. Hendry snagged Wilken. Hendry signed Soriano. Hendry re-signed Ramirez. Hendry extended DLee. We're looking pretty solid in the short-term and our future doesn't look too bad with Wilken running the drafts. Has the last 2 years been fun? Nope, but things are about to get a lot better even if they aren't perfect at this moment. What team had a better offseason than we did? Boston? That's one team that's not even in our league, let alone our division.

Which will once again confirm that Jim Hendry and most of the rest of the Cubs management are either idiots who have no idea how to make a winning team, or cowards who haven't the guts to tell an MLB veteran to shut up, sit down, and collect the millions we stupidly agreed to pay you. Hill>>>>>>Marquis All indications are that the Cubs think Hill is a surefire thing to make the rotation out of ST. Unless he spends several weeks bouncing curveballs in the Arizona dirt, he's probably fine, IMO. Lou won't put up with Marquis/Miller/Prior if they're sucking it up. He may give them a chance to start, but performance will dictate who plays. I also think Guzman is the first callup from AAA over Marshall.

I'm not so sure you can hurt the farm system anymore than it already is. Zero position players in the last how many years? Okay, Pie and Patterson are close. But, close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Those two guys lack some of the same skills that many other Cub prospects lacked and never reached stardom. The Cubs have been successful developing pitching. But, they don't value it like they should. 3 pitching prospects for a no-hit one year wonder. Abuse the guys you have to the point they need surgery. If the Cubs are just going to run pitching prospects into the ground and not focus at all on developing position talent, then forget the farm system, because it really can't be hurt much more. This year, they have just as many pitching talents as they had last year, yet they managed to deal off a bunch and still have new guys step up. The same will happen this year when they take the 3rd overall pick and get one of the first sandwich picks. It will be another good offseason as far as picking up new pitching talent. But, it's win now time in the big leagues. Why spend 120m to build a 2nd place team when you can spend 140m for a 1st place team? Why only go half way? Why save a prospect who can't help you win now if it means the difference between 2nd place and 1st? Obviously, they still have to play the games. But, a stronger and better team has a better chance of winning. We all know that. Ichiro or A-Rod or Tejada or Miguel Cabrera, etc... made this team a 1st place team. 1st place in Iowa just doesn't mean squat. We have a few quality arms that are 0-2 seasons away from making it. Pie and Patterson won't be stars, IMO, but they'll be quality regulars. Murton is a quality regular. Our system is just starting to produce and with Wilken at the helm, it will improve big time. Prospects are far more valuable than money. You can always print more money. You can't get the prospects back you traded away. Ichiro is not available. ARod is not available. Miguel Cabrera is not available. Tejada isn't available for Prior and some prospects. I don't see any of the other teams swinging deals for those players - and some of those orgs have prospects to spare. We don't. All-stars aren't available for B+ prospects (Pie, Patterson) and some cash. Why would the O's trade Tejada for prospects? Believe it or not, they're trying to contend too. It would take a stud major leaguer (i.e. Prior last season) and then some. Hendry can't work miracles with what isn't there. It's not fantasy baseball where you get to con some schmuck into a lopsided deal.

Which is my point, in a nutshell. I was clamoring for Schmidt. Daisuke would have been good, too. For the money they spent this offseason, it seems like they could have done much more. And let's talk about Boston. They not only got Daisuke, Drew and Lugo (3 guys I wanted real bad), but they are still in talks with Colorado to go get Helton. Helton might be overkill. Boston should go out and win the division this year without Helton. However, Helton would put them clearly over the top. That, to me, says "we are going to do everything in our power to get this team to the World Series". That's exactly what Hendry should have been doing. Forget this outfield feud already of who should play where. The gameplan should have been to recognize your needs and go get them. The biggest need was at SS. Tejada and A-Rod were available for the right price. It's actually a sad state when you pay all this money out and you don't even know where some of these guys fit into the grand scheme. Will Soriano play CF or RF. Will Marquis be a #2 or the #5 or in the pen. Will Floyd be the highest paid bench guy in history, or will a superior Murton be wasted away on the bench once again for a breaking down ballplayer trying to earn a big salary? The direction of this organization is lacking. Direction is what they needed this offseason, and I don't think they accomplished it. What I think they did was just throw a bunch of money out there and see what stuck. They can win with this team, but how much can they win? You mean the Cubs should have vastly overspent the other bidders for Daisuke, tampered with Drew, and picked up a solid SS? Sounds like 20/20 hindsight to me. Even the Yankees couldn't outbid the Sox for Daisuke. The only reason the allegations about Drew haven't been pursued is the Dodgers talked with Manny when they weren't supposed to. Lugo is a good player. I wanted him as well. I can't complain about our offseason too much. I was afraid Hendry was going to trade quality prospects for one year rental types (Jennings, Suzuki, etc). If we'd have missed the WS for the next 2 years, it would have seriously hurt our farm system.

Not much longer 'til the Bears eat My Little Ponies.

For those of us who are too lazy to sift through the articles on Cubs.com, what do they project the rotation to be? Zambrano, Lilly, Hill, Marquis, Prior/Miller I think they have Hill as 4 and Marquis as 3. :(

It'd really torque me off if we gave up a legit front of the rotation starter type as a PTBNL. If he shows up out of shape again, and his velocity continues to drop, it might be better to get rid of him before it's too late His velo was back after he got in shape. Hopefully he learned his lesson. He says he did. We'll see.

It'd really torque me off if we gave up a legit front of the rotation starter type as a PTBNL.

Izturis is a defensive god. We could definitely improve offensively at SS easier than in RF.

Opening Day: LF: Murton/Floyd platoon CF: Soriano RF: Jones It sounds like Lou wants Soriano in CF as they don't have to run out and get a stopgap in CF until Pie comes up. I think when Pie comes up, Jones is gone (if not before).

Peyton will get his yards. Its the design of the cover-2. Even Drew Brees threw for 350+ yards. Its points that are the deciding factor. We didn't play much cover-2 against the Saints. Oh, and 88 yards of that was the play Bush scored after getting open on an illegal pick.

Actually it would most likely lower our team OPS. Jones can SLG and Suzuki can get on base. It's a classic tradeoff. SLG for OBP. I don't think Jones's arm is as bad as last season led us to believe. He didn't have that problem in Minni from the archive games I've seen (Cubs scouts didn't see it either) - so it must have been the shoulder injury, which supposedly didn't require surgery. Jones's range is fine. People were actually clamoring for him to play CF.

I'd have to ask why. The Cubs need OBP and Ichiro provides a lot more of it than Jacque. That difference isn't worth 7MM in 2007, much less trading away a decent pitching prospect in Gallagher and a ptbnl. Jones/Ichiro is a tradeoff, not an across the board upgrade. Jones '07: .285/.334/.499/.833 Suzuki '07: .322/.370/.416/.786 36 points in OBP is worth 7MM? I think not. We could get more than that at SS (not to mention more power) w/o spending that kind of loot. CF/RF is a silly place to throw away 7MM on this Cubs team. Are we not counting the 43 steals in 45 attempts, and the excellent defense and cannon arm against whatever the hell Jones was doing in RF last season. Those things might be overvalued, but they shouldn't be ignored either. It's still not 7MM in difference. I hate to defend Jones's throwing, but he did have an injured shoulder that he just played through. I'm not a Jacque Jones fan. I'm sure I'll be yelling at him several times this coming season (if he remains a Cub), but he's not a scrub and he's a real decent OFer with his current contract. I don't think Jones is a scrub, I think Ichiro is an all-star level player, or at least very close to one. The money is not as big of a deal to me at this point in the offseason, because I don't think making this move would limit the Cubs from doing anything else with the money. If they don't make this move (and again, I assume nothing comes of this) it's not like they will use that $7 Million on someone else. If you think the difference between Ichiro and Jones isn't worth the prospects, I can respect that. I just think with the logjam in our rotation, with Veal ahead of Gallagher, and guys like Guzman, Pawelek, and Samardzija at or near the same level it is a move we can afford to make, that greatly improves the 07 roster. We're going to need our farm to start producing when our backloaded contracts catch up to us. It certainly isn't producing position players at an acceptable rate. Dealing away Nolasco for a 1 year rental was dumb. Dealing away another potential ML arm (not to mention the ptbnl) for what could be another 1 year rental would be ______. You fill in the blank.

I'd have to ask why. The Cubs need OBP and Ichiro provides a lot more of it than Jacque. That difference isn't worth 7MM in 2007, much less trading away a decent pitching prospect in Gallagher and a ptbnl. Jones/Ichiro is a tradeoff, not an across the board upgrade. Jones '07: .285/.334/.499/.833 Suzuki '07: .322/.370/.416/.786 36 points in OBP is worth 7MM? I think not. We could get more than that at SS (not to mention more power) w/o spending that kind of loot. CF/RF is a silly place to throw away 7MM on this Cubs team. Are we not counting the 43 steals in 45 attempts, and the excellent defense and cannon arm against whatever the hell Jones was doing in RF last season. Those things might be overvalued, but they shouldn't be ignored either. It's still not 7MM in difference. I hate to defend Jones's throwing, but he did have an injured shoulder that he just played through. I'm not a Jacque Jones fan. I'm sure I'll be yelling at him several times this coming season (if he remains a Cub), but he's not a scrub and he's a real decent OFer with his current contract.

I'd have to ask why. The Cubs need OBP and Ichiro provides a lot more of it than Jacque. That difference isn't worth 7MM in 2007, much less trading away a decent pitching prospect in Gallagher and a ptbnl. Jones/Ichiro is a tradeoff, not an across the board upgrade. Jones '07: .285/.334/.499/.833 Suzuki '07: .322/.370/.416/.786 36 points in OBP is worth 7MM? I think not. We could get more than that at SS (not to mention more power) w/o spending that kind of loot. CF/RF is a silly place to throw away 7MM on this Cubs team.

I'd rather have Jacque instead of Suzuki, not to mention Gallagher and the PTBNL.

Clemens is a merc. Hurry up and retire.

If Prior is healthy and gets his mechanics back in order, he leaves Z and Hill in the dust. Prior is a once in a generation type of pitcher. Freaking Giles and Hawpe. :evil: