killthegoat06

You're right. Z Lilly Hill Westbrook Miller won't contend in the NL central at all next year, with. Soriano Murton Lee Ramirez Jones Barret Derosa Izturis :roll: First of all, I didn't mean NL Central. I meant World Series contender. Also, are you expecting to only give up Dempster and prospects for Westbrook? If that were the case, my perspective would change. I assumed we'd have to give up someone good (i.e. starting position player, as we won't deal a starting pitcher).

While #1 is obviously most preferable, the 2nd rotation still isn't that bad, although I might be in the minority on that. Both are good enough improvements off of are previous staff for me. Having Lilly and Jennings/Westbrook (in the second staff) is alot better than Marmol and Mateo. Also, I'm not sure why Prior/Miller are penciled in as the number 3 starter and the number 2 starter. Let's just keep them at 5. The thing is though that we could get worse than Lilly. It's debatable over whether Meche and Padilla are better or worse, but I'm sure Hendry'd be able to find a starter to trade for/sign that's worse than Lilly. Also, there may be the possibility that Schmidt WILL NOT leave west coast under any cicumstances. If this is the case, then you can't blame Hendry for not singing him or driving up the market for other teams. (Not us because our other starter would come through a trade).

While #1 is obviously most preferable, the 2nd rotation still isn't that bad, although I might be in the minority on that. Both are good enough improvements off of are previous staff for me. Having Lilly and Jennings/Westbrook (in the second staff) is alot better than Marmol and Mateo. Also, I'm not sure why Prior/Miller are penciled in as the number 3 starter and the number 2 starter. Let's just keep them at 5. Praying Prior's healthy. Miller was an afterthought.

Any chance Hendry will still go for Schmidt? The difference between Z Schmidt Prior/Miller Hill Lilly and Z Prior/Miller Hill Lilly Jennings/Westbrook is humongous, and we won't contend with the latter without significantly improving our offense (no, not Lgo for CF... POWER BAT)

I think that's exactly it. Boston's been after Lugo for quite a while. If we sign him, we may well be able to send Izturis there, which would be EXCELLENT. Problem is Hendry: Izturis = Dusty: Neifi. Izturis isn't going anywhere.

Of course you'd like to look at it like that, because it's the only way to make your case. But in reality he's bee inconsistent. He's got a fairly high walk rate, his ERA+ has been up and down and he's highly susceptible to the HR. I liked him as a guy who you'd slot at the end of your rotation and hope for 180 mediocre innings. But he's nowhere near a #3 pitcher, and clearly not consistent. We have different interpretations of a number 3 starter. If Lilly is your version of a back of the rotation starter, then you must be describing top 5 pitching staff in baseball, or a definitive playoff calibur team, and not with consideration of the entire league. Lilly's 2006, 3-year splits, and career numbers paint him as slightly above average in most standard pitcher measurements. Being average, or a little above average is what a team should expect from a number 3 starter. As an illustration, how many teams had 3 starters with a better 2006 than Lilly? Detroit, San Diego, Houston, Oakland, and the Angels would probably use Lilly as a 4th starter. And maybe Minnesota (although Radke and Lilly are probably interchangeable as 3s). For the rest of the league (from 2006), he would project as a likely 3rd starter. If you view innings pitched as your measure of reliable, then yes, he hasn't hit 200 IP. If you use Games Started as the measure, Lilly has only missed 9-10 starts in 4 years (depending on how you round the fraction). He's not reliable for 7 innings, but he is consistent for taking his turn in the rotation. Damn straight I am. We should be shooting for that each and every year. And this year, there's enough on the market to make it happen. Schmidt and Westbrook can fit on the team for nearly the same salary as two guys like Lilly and Meche. Schmidt is obviously the best of the bunch, and I'd be inclined to take Westbrook over Meche (certainly) and Lilly (probably). Signing Lilly this early can only tie up enough payroll to keep us from doing smart things. I don't think you need to worry. It's already 3:00 and there have been no indications anywhere else that we have signed Lilly. In all likelihood this report is just as bogus as the supposed Schmidt offer.

Sounds logical to me.

Let's not forget that nothing's actually happened yet. This has A LOT less coverage than the Schmidt contract saga, and we all know how that ended up.

Welcome to the board. Fixed. Questions for discussion...Will Hendry do this instead of Schmidt or Westbrook ... also: Who's better for the Cubs: Lilly or Westbrook?

hahaha, why'd they even bother putting this in the contract??? Yep, none. Absolutely no chance in the next eight years. None. Zip. No chance. Not even a little. How many other ways can I say this? This is fun! The Cubs have no chance to win....ever! Weeeeee! Not even a slightest sliver of a glimmer of hope of a World Series victory. You look at this album cover and you have to ask yourself how much more black could this be and the answer is none. None more black. Just to reiterate, in case I wasn't clear in my earlier comments, no hope. Glad that's been straightened out. :oops: :oops: :oops: Back to my beer(s) now. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm not sure if this has been posted yet. Per Bruce at Daily Herald:

After the most recent Lugo rumor, I was thinking about what position Lugo would play at if he signed with the team. Hendry's made it clear that he's infatuated with Izturis, and so, pray as we mght, Lugo probably won't be playing shortstop. Speculation has placed Lugo in CF. This would remove Jock from the lineup, and take away our #5 hitter. Hendry may have made some dumb moves in the past, but he is being paid to be the GM. He is being paid to know that Michael Barrett is a good hitter, but he is not the #5 hitter on a good team, let alone great. Hendry has also made it clear that he is seeking a left-handed bat. If Jock is traded, Hendry will probably want a left-handed bat in CF. The next logical solution would be 2B. DeRosa would become a very expensive, although above average, utility infielder. Hendry may not be thinking in this manner, but barring acquiring another big bat, there is a possibility that Lugo could be the 2007 2Bman. Not a likelihoood, but a possibility.

Why is this under transactions?

You do realize that report about Meche was written over 2 weeks ago, don't you? This was before the Soriano signing. I mean I got excited that we'd be getting great players after we signed Soriano. Meche is not what I had in mind. I know, but nothing has been reported that the Cubs are the favorites to sign Meche since then. That rumor is not nearly as strong as it was 2 weeks ago. It is possible the Cubs end up with Meche, but I don't see anything recently that would call it likely right now. Haha WOW I didn't read the date on the thread. My bad. :oops: I feel a lot better now. :lol:

You do realize that report about Meche was written over 2 weeks ago, don't you? This was before the Soriano signing. I mean I got excited that we'd be getting great players after we signed Soriano. Meche is not what I had in mind.

I got excited after Soriano. Hendry had us fooled. He hasn't changed. This is typical Hendry.

I don't see how you can defend such a claim. Gonzo had as good a defensive reputation as Izturis has. And he wasn't as damaged physically as Izturis is. Cesar is no wonderboy out there. SS is one of the most important defensive positions out there and Izturis is one of the top SS in the game...If hes batting 8th im willing to live with that..It just means we need better production out of our other positions.. If only we could have Soriano at 2B ... Their are so many good offensive RFers out there ...

That's a real good rotation...when healthy. You really can't count on Beckett being healthy for a full year and Schilling has had some pretty serious injuries the last couple of years as well. But when that rotation is 100% and if they were to make the playoffs with all of those guys healthy, that would be an extremely dangerous rotation to face in a best of 5 and a best of 7. Their offense would take a huge hit if they trade Manny, though. Ortiz, Drew, and who else?I can't remember what's going on with their lineup, but I think they'd need a great staff.

They're looking at every possibility, including putting Jock there. Nothing is firm yet as trades take a lot more work than do free-agent signings. Even Bruce does it... :lol:

Meaningless speculation from metsblog.com: I'm posting it because rumors/news have been slow since the Schmidt debacle.

I don't have ESPN Insider, but I think that they're rumor central says that we made Lugo a multiyear offer.

Was his question what we want or what we think?

Meche, Marquis we will get if we miss Schmidt Life as a Cubs fan will turn for the worse

No, not really. I think his arm will be fine since he hardly throws any breaking balls, and he kept the ball down last year. He strikes me as a good pitcher - not the kind of guy who falls apart when he loses a tick or two off his fastball. Well it should. A decrease in velocity and the decreasing length of a pitchers stride are two of the biggest keys to a shoulder injury. throwing less hard makes a pitcher hurt his shoulder? interesting. no. It's a symptom of shoulder injury.

Oh man I hope you're right. Zambrano? Schmidt? Hill? Westbrook? Miller (with prior on the background)? Pitchingasm. Honestly, if you get Schmidt, Westbrook, and a decent SS, you probably have a team that could compete with the mets for the best in the NL when healthy. :roll: I don't know why you would roll your eyes at that. Because since 2003 that has been the story of the cubs. I should have said: Here we go again ... :roll: Yeah that would've made sense. I thought you were rolling your eyes at what Jazz said about us competing with the Mets next year. Nope. I agree with that.