imb

I wanted to see if I was beating up Treeman, since he took me down last year, and lo and behold. 182. IMB-Suckiest Bunch of Sucks that ever Sucked 353. Treeman-One True Outcome:Failure

I don't want to trade eigher Z or Wood. I didnt mean you, specifically.

win loss record is entirely meaningless for a pitcher because it is determined by team performance (i.e. offensive run support, among other things) k rate matters a great deal. studies have shown that it is one of the best predictors for determining which pitchers will go on to have success in the major leagues and which pitchers will not. other excellent statistics to look at are hr/9 and bb/9. and fun combinations of them like hr/k and k/bb Oooh ooh ooh, my favorite stat for minor league pitchers is xbh/k.

So what are you saying? We don't have to choose between them, we have them both. What I'm saying is, we cant go 10 minutes without someone posting their great, new TRADE WOOD thread, but if you say you would trade Zambrano, people flip out and go crazy. During healthy periods (an admittedly smallish sample) Wood has been Z's equal. Due to age/contract, we could get an f-ton more for Z than we could for Wood, so who do you want to trade now?

I think we pretty much believe the same thing (looking at all metrics), only you seem to care about W/L record, at least a little bit, while I don't care if I ever see that stat line outside of fantasy baseball.

Yeah, Pie is coachable and Corey isn't. Corey's walk rate in the minors was better than Pie's is now. How long will Pie be in the majors before people get sick of him not walking and start calling him uncoachable?

Well, it appears that we are at an empass then. Hahah, I'll pretend this was a joke. What makes you think I haven't? Following the in crowd? Hahaha.

And wrong. Prove it. Hahah, why? So we can sit here and argue for an hour? I got an idea, I'll go argue with a brick wall, it will be just as much fun. It's pointless. You've heard it all before. I'm sure this isn't the first time you've made your outdated opinion heard. If you want to continue believing that wins are an effective way to measure a pitchers worth, be my guest. Someone has to be wrong.

And wrong.

who? Are you being serious? Bill James, Rob Neyer, etc etc... These guys know pitching, why dont you ask them what they think about "wins" describing how good a pitcher is. Maybe you'd be more comfortable talking to Joe Morgan.

Only the best baseball minds in the world?

wow what

He's 22 and he's already at least as good as Ramirez and Lee, by the time he hits his prime, Manny and ARod will be on the downswing, so it will just be him and Pujols.

indifferent my ass, b&

He should be an AL manager, for the All-Star game, guaranteed home field advantage for the NL.

NEIN!!!

TIME UP LETS DO THIS HEE SEOP CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOI (ct will get it)

I prefer "Dusty-Fluffers".

It probably has something to do with not having two sub .300obp players 1-2 in the order.

Is it really alliteration? I've only ever seen anything described as alliteration when the consonants of multiple words are the same. Anyway, I specifically remember Tim asking for people to stop using cute little phrases to refer to groups of posters, but I'm no mod, and frankly, if someone wants to invent a lame turn of phrase in order to get people's panties in a wad, far be it from me to stop them.

I'd do Zambrano for Cabrera without blinking.

Wood, before shoulder injury in 2004. 45.2IP 28H 3HR 13BB 50K Zambrano to that point 41.1IP 30H 1HR 11BB 35K Wood's last three starts. 18.2IP 14H 3HR 6BB 19K Zambrano's last three starts. 22IP 15H 1HR 12BB 20K

That always makes me cry.

"i dont mean to toot my own horn, but...beep beep"

I'm bored, so let's check this out. 1. Brian Dopirak-Unanimous selection. Not as broad a skill set as Pie, but enormous power. Could be one of the best 1B/Power hitters in the game if he reaches his potential. Not quite of Pujols/Helton caliber, though... perhaps Richie Sexson. Some defensive issues to work out. Could stand to improve his discipline, though his power will likely help him in that regard. To date http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/madhops_42/dopirak.jpg 2. Felix Pie-Loads of talent, but still pretty raw. His all-round tool set means his floor is pretty high, as well as his ceiling. Some concern over whether or not his power will ever develop. Speed should help keep his BA high, but needs more discipline to maintain a good OBP. In summary: Loads of potential with a long way to go to reach it, but sill a lot of time to get there. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/madhops_42/pie.jpg 3. Angel Guzman-Was very close to reaching a very high ceiling before the injuries set in. If he bounces back fully and can stay healthy, is good enough to be the #1 prospect. Many lingering health concerns, though. First, will he ever be able to put together a fully healthy season? Hasn't yet. Second, will he recover completely from surgery? May lose some effectiveness after a serious injury. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/madhops_42/guzman.jpg 4. Ryan Harvey-Higher ceiling than Pie, perhaps… more power and discipline. Farther to go, esp. with injury setbacks. Still hasn’t proven much professionally. Maintaining a healthy K-rate is key. Weak on low & away strikes. Good bat speed, but a long swing. Not atypical of a power hitter, though... Dopirak had similar issues and was able to shorten his swing. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/madhops_42/harvey.jpg 5. Jason Dubois-Perhaps the surest bet in the system. Not the highest of ceilings but still pretty good. Will very likely be a fair/decent corner OF in the majors. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/madhops_42/dubois.jpg 6. Billy Petrick-Good sinker, makeup. Loads of potential, but like many high-potential guys he’s not there yet. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/madhops_42/petrick.jpg 7. Renyel Pinto-Good fastball and change. Pretty close to majors at this point. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/madhops_42/pinto.jpg 8. Sean Marshall-Good control. Some injury risk. Great curve, but needs a third pitch. Still a long way to go, and a lot left to prove http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/madhops_42/marshall.jpg 9. Jon Leicester-Needs to keep the BB down. Has been able to do that recently, helping fulfill the high reward part of high risk/high reward. Very close to the majors and very close to his ceiling, which isn't terribly high but not bad either. Would make a decent starter, but needs more AAA work for that to happen. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/madhops_42/leicester.jpg 10. Carlos Marmol-Good mid-90s heater. Still pretty young, despite being in the system for a long time. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/madhops_42/marmol.jpg 11. Grant Johnson-Injury concerns. Little professional experience as yet. Nice mid-90’s fastball, good slider http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/madhops_42/johnson.jpg 12. Matt Murton-Good contact/discipline, but needs to develop more power to make the bigs as an outfielder. Lost some patience after coming to Cubs, but could just be a blip on the radar. Looks to post good OBP, but power is the big concern here… .425 career SLG. Not great in the outfield, weaker arm. Not a lot of speed. Defensive issues may force him to 1B, where he has far less value. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/madhops_42/murton.jpg +1BB +1R 13. Mike Wuertz-Very good slider. Not many options beyond that, though. Probably limited to a reliever without more of a pitch selection. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/madhops_42/wuertz.jpg 14. Ricky Nolasco-Not many positives, not may negatives. Good K/BB. Decent stuff... Fastball’s pretty straight, and not much in way of offspeed pitches. Projects as a #4 starter. Strikes out more people than you think he would based on his stuff. Young for his league. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/madhops_42/nolasco.jpg 15. Geo Soto-Good Defense, decent all-round. Most advanced of the three catchers. Not many strengths, but not a lot of weaknesses, either. Still young for his league. Best bet to reach majors of our catching prospects, but probably the lowest ceiling. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/madhops_42/soto.jpg 16. Bobby Brownlie-Will he ever get his speed back? If not, his MLB future is very doubtful. Pitches don’t have enough movement to survive without a good fastball. (Minor league version of Matt Morris?) Curve has also declined along with his fastball. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/madhops_42/brownlie.jpg 17. Richard Lewis-Great 2004 season, but was inflated by a high BABIP. Good defender, has decent speed. Looks to hit for pretty good average. Too many strikeouts for someone who looks to be a contact/speed type hitter. Could be a decent MLB starter. Getting old for a prospect. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/madhops_42/lewis.jpg 18. Mark Reed-Good contact, OBP for a catcher… hasn’t shown much beyond rookie ball, though. Also has some defensive concerns http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/madhops_42/reed.jpg 19. Matt Craig-Craig comes in exactly where he did on last year's prospect list, at #19. The 23-year-old, switch-hitting 3B posted a very similar 2004 season to his 2003 campaign, just a level higher. Decent average, nice patience, and pretty good power (20 HR in the AA Southern League last year). He tends to strike out quite a bit, though that's mitigated by the far amount of walks he's able to work. New news with Craig since the rankings were done...we'll have to see how testing positive for steroids use impacts his future. This could knock him down the list. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/madhops_42/craig.jpg 20. Ronny Cedeno-In November 2003 Jim Hendry saw fit to add Ronny Cedeno to the Cubs 40-man roster. This left a fair number of Cubs fans scratching their heads. At that point, after all, Cedeno was still a 20-year-old kid who had yet to put up an OPS above .600 at any level above rookie ball. Thankfully, Ronny responded to the organization's confidence by having a breakout 2004 season. While a stat line of .279/.328/.401 may not sound impressive at first, it's actually pretty good for a 21 year old middle infielder seeing his first AA experience. That being said, Ronny still has a lot of room for improvement, particularly his BB/K ratio which hasn't improved at all over the past few seasons. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/madhops_42/cedeno.jpg BONUS PROSPECT ACTION 21. Rich Hill-Rich may be an all or nothing type of prospect. The lefty has wicked stuff, particularly a nasty curve ball that he showcased during the last spring game of 2005. It's also helped him amass some massive K totals in the minor leagues. With as much raw stuff as Rich has, his potential is through the roof. Unfortunately, he as two big issues working against him: Age and control problems. Along with all those strikeouts, Rich also walked more batters than is healthy and threw a staggering number of wild pitches. He's also a bit old for where he sits on the minor league totem pole, so he doesn't have a whole lot of room for error. Still, his tremendous upside makes him an exciting prospect to watch. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/madhops_42/hill.jpg 29. Eric Patterson-Like his brother Corey, Eric is a fine athlete with plus speed. Although their swings are similar, Eric is more of a gap hitter and doesn't have the same power as Corey. He also doesn't have the same problems with walks as Corey does. E-Pat will be successful if he learns how to better utilize his speed and make consistant contact. In the field, he is an above-average defender with soft hands and good range. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/madhops_42/patterson.jpg 42. Sean Gallagher-12th round draft pick in 2004 put up strong numbers in Rookie ball last season. 44 Ks, 3.12 ERA in 34 2/3 innings. Features a low 90s fastball and one of the best curves to come out of the 04 draft. Not much projectability, but knows how to pitch. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/madhops_42/gallagher.jpg 47. Scott Moore-In the 2002 draft, the Tigers took Moore as the eighth overall pick in the draft. He has shown power hitting 14 home runs in 391 at-bats last season in the Florida State League. Moore has also shown patience at the plate drawing 49 walks last year. But his career batting average is just .240; he strikes out way too much, and his speed is below average. His defense needs more work. The Cubs hope he can turn it around in 2005. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/madhops_42/moore.jpg NR. Mark Pawelek-2005 Cubs first round draft pick. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/madhops_42/pawelek.jpg