Sammy Sofa

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Sure, walk him on strike 4. You'll pay big, blue.

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Counterpoint: Ben Revere is dumb and his face is a butt.

STOP JUSTIFYING DUSTY'S MORONIC BEN REVERE LOVE.

Lackey, you mule-breathed dork.

Well, at least this ump is consistently terribad with that low strike, I guess.

Lobaton sounds like the worst Transformer this side of Warpitcon.

Holy...those first two strikes are an affront to Baseball Jeebus.

BAM.

Dammit, you gotta send Redneck Bib Fortuna. He can take it.

Another good inning for Hatchetface.

Nice inning, Donkey-Face.

And he'd be doing when trying to actually make nice with everyone, too. That would be amazingly diabolical.

His swing has gone all shitty. It looks like he's awkwardly shifting his weight from one side to the other.

I was at the game for my birthday last night and was, of course, slamming Dusty for the stupid decision of having Revere at the top of the lineup and he, of course, goes on to have a great night. Though I will give him credit for the awesome choice of "Ignition" for his walkup music. Sidenote: today is actually my birthday, and the discovery that that is also Trump's birthday is still horrifying.

Poor Ding Dong.

WHOA. Whoa. This changes EVERYTHING.

Russian soccer hooliganism seems a lot more cold and orchestrated than classic European soccer hooliganism.

Ali is history book-famous; Jordan is Grays Sports Almanac-famous?

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And I honestly think that's coming from a standpoint of seeing Jordan's fame in America. Again, Jordan is globally famous, but I think some of the names brought up, like Tiger or Messi or Pele, seriously trump him along those lines. So much of Jordan's fame around the world is actually his brand's fame. I think a big part of that is, unlike those other figures (and Ali), Jordan never transcended his sport or his products. He was and is hugely famous for being amazing at basketball and his work as a pitchman, but that's "it." Some of it is because he didn't really try to be more than that, but Tiger didn't really either, but he had so much of thrust on him because of his heritage and because of what was seen as the historical nature of him breaking into and dominating the whitest and most traditional of the global sports. I think we're using different measures here. You're giving Ali extra "famous points" because of fame from his activism, which is fine...he was clearly famous for that. But then discounting Jordan for being famous because of his "brand". Which I guess is also fine, it's just why there's no consensus here. Are we measuring fame as a result of just sport? Or fame overall? I just don't think we're all "counting" the same things. I thought it was obvious there's no kind of hard metric anyone is using here; it's just the nebulous notion of whatever "crazy globally famous on a level only a handful of people ever reach" is. To me, Jordan is too tied to his products and to his sport to be on Ali's level; Ali transcended his sport to a point where he was basically just famous for being Muhammed Ali. If Jordan transcended the sport that made him famous, it really just seems to be in a marketing sense. Maybe it's not fair that I'm lending more weight to someone who become more famous than their sport because of things beyond athletics and marketing, but hey, that's what I'm doing. To me, Jordan is too inexorably linked to the global rise of Nike to look at his global fame as simply the result of Michael Jordan: the greatest basketball player ever. His sport simply wasn't THAT globally famous at that point, and Nike went whole hog into making themselves and him a global brand. In the end, yeah, he ended up being hugely famous because of his talent and because of the products he endorsed, but ultimately that was his ceiling, gigantic as it was. Ali somehow got beyond that. I look at Jordan as kind of reverse Pele, from an American standpoint. Pele was definitely famous in America, but obviously nowhere near what he was elsewhere in the world. Jordan was famous around the world, but nowhere near the heights he hit in America. We can't help but see Jordan as this all-encompassing figure because of how much we lived and breathed everything he did, but that really was the exception compared to the rest of the world. Subtract Nike from the picture and I think it's suddenly a hugely different picture as to how famous Jordan was globally. Sure, that sounds a lot like "subtract player x's best games and they're not so great," but with Nike I think it's genuinely questionable whether the man or the product was more famous.

I'm honestly surprised this even turned out to be such a contentious thing; I just assumed he was one of those rare figures everyone though was on another level of fame/global awareness. It's impossible to objectively measure, and no matter your feelings toward MJ, most of us were around for that. It's hard to see MJ's level of fame and fathom someone being more internationally recognized. And I honestly think that's coming from a standpoint of seeing Jordan's fame in America. Again, Jordan is globally famous, but I think some of the names brought up, like Tiger or Messi or Pele, seriously trump him along those lines. So much of Jordan's fame around the world is actually his brand's fame. I think a big part of that is, unlike those other figures (and Ali), Jordan never transcended his sport or his products. He was and is hugely famous for being amazing at basketball and his work as a pitchman, but that's "it." Some of it is because he didn't really try to be more than that, but Tiger didn't really either, but he had so much of thrust on him because of his heritage and because of what was seen as the historical nature of him breaking into and dominating the whitest and most traditional of the global sports.