Sammy Sofa

You should blame him. These are the actions of an idiot, a child or a maniac.

Do it.

I'm not sure about Beltran, but when Vlad was a free agent the Cubs didn't sign him because they already had Alou and Sosa on the corners. I desperately wanted the Cubs to trade Alou to make room for Vlad, but the Cubs weren't that creative. Ah, that's right; I thought he was a FA after '04, not '03. For some reason I remember a lot of Cubs talk regarding him, though.

Well then you just aren't remembering accurately. He did a lot of things wrong, like hiring Lynch and Hendry and allowing Baker to come here. But he did spend and allow spending, he just got weird about it at times. What major free agents did the Cubs acquire during his entire time with the Cubs? Was Alou the biggest one? MacPhail did allow spending but he wasn't willing to spend on any one player. It was a widely played story that one of the biggest reasons why the Cubs were suddenly landing free agents in the 2006-2007 offseason was because MacPhail was gone. It could be that all those reports are wrong (and I think they are probably slightly overplayed), but they are out there. I recall the Cubs "finishing" second in the bidding for a lot of major free agents. They were willing to spend big money, just not obscene money that it usually takes to land one of those guys. That and they did have one of their own "those guys" in Sosa. Right, but then what about Vlad and Beltran immediately post-Sosa? I had always heard that the Cubs' efforts to sign them when they were up for deals in the mid 00's were nixed because of what effectively amounted to self-imposed salary caps.

Yup. 3-0 may as well be 30-0 against Halladay. Yeah no team has ever come back from a 3-0 deficit. Oh wait we suck and we're facing Halladay so its allowed to happen. Carry on Granted it's only 3 games, but the Cubs have a surprisingly decent line against Halladay: .280 .316 .467 .783 Though he's rocking the 13.00 SO/BB.

No. It's stupid and terrible. PS: No creepy PM's, please. Thanks.

No kidding. Seriously. Kid was blessed with a swing from the gods: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liS3kGvQ9Bk&feature=player_detailpage#t=183s very pretty swing, but a 502 foot HR with a metal bat? Is still very, very impressive given the circumstances.

Game 2 vs. Spurs: 25-7-6 (2nd Scorer: Gibson -15) Game 3 vs. Spurs: 28-8-7 (2nd scorer: Gooden - 13) Game 4 vs. Spurs: 24-6-6 (2nd scorer: Gooden - 11) 9/21 - L 9/23 - L 10/30 - L Oh, right, so he had a terrible game then.

No. Consider Wilt's absolutely mind boggling numbers and he wasn't even considered the best player of his era. It's safe to say that no one will have that overwhelming statistical dominance ever again. His era is key. Wilt was an amazing player, but he dominated largely because he was a freak-show because of the era he played in.

Fantasy stats IMO Yeah, I know. I used stats. How's this for supporting cast? Scotty Pippen in his second year, Horace Grant in his second year, BJ Armstrong, John Paxson, Will Perdue, Bill Cartwright, Charles Davis, Jack Haley, Ed Nealy, Jeff Sanders, Clifford Lett, Craig Hodges Bron-Bron would have killed for that team over the course of his career up until this season.

Probably not. Not unless they were on almost nothing but garbage teams their whole career and still put otherworldly numbers.

I'm thinking 3, too.

Of course. Obviously the lack of championship is going to knock him down a peg, but it's not like he's be in terrible company never having won a title. Ewing, Barkley, Wilkins, Iverson, Baylor, Maravich, Miller, Stockton, Malone...who is really going to knock any of these guys as not being some of the very greatest of all time? That'd be pretty terrible company for Lebron all things considered. Why? Those are some of the very greatest players of all time. The same way Wilt is knocked down for "only" winning 2 titles. If Lebron wins no titles? He's on a completely different level than the rest of those guys. He'd blow Dan Marino out of the water in terms of having a black mark on his career for not winning a championship...like literally lapping the rest of the field. But that's not what bcl was asking. He was asking if LeBron could be considered one of the greatest players ever if he never wins a title, so I listed a bunch of players considered some of the very greatest NBA players ever who also never won a title. Of course he wouldn't be as highly rated if he never wins one; that's just common sense.

I can't tell if DivineBovine is really overrating the Heat or really underrating a bunch of other teams (though yes, Barkely was screwed with [expletive] supporting players throughout his prime, probably more than anyone in NBA history with that much talent).

So what was Jordan's excuse? The last year before the Bulls first championship, he averaged 37/7/7 with 3 steals in the playoffs. The 1990 Bulls are no comparison to the 2011 Heat in terms of supporting cast. And don't bring up the fact that BJ Armstrong started an All-Star game. Any other rules?

Of course. Obviously the lack of championship is going to knock him down a peg, but it's not like he's be in terrible company never having won a title. Ewing, Barkley, Wilkins, Iverson, Baylor, Maravich, Miller, Stockton, Malone...who is really going to knock any of these guys as not being some of the very greatest of all time? That'd be pretty terrible company for Lebron all things considered. Why? Those are some of the very greatest players of all time.

Statistical analysis is far more applicable to baseball than any other sport. True, but you're taking a pretty night/day approach between the two by effectively suggesting that any talk of LeBron being the GOAT down the line is based on statistical smoke and mirrors.

Yes, nobody can compare one player to another player until both player's careers are done. If you're building a case for GOAT, it's kind of difficult to make that call when one of the players hasn't had half the time of the other to establish a legacy, isn't it? But nobody here is really building him up as the GOAT right now. It's more a "wow, this guy has a real chance to be the GOAT when all is said and done...and there's a lot of meatball arguments out there acting like this is impossible hearsay."

Of course. Obviously the lack of championship is going to knock him down a peg, but it's not like he's be in terrible company never having won a title. Ewing, Barkley, Wilkins, Iverson, Baylor, Maravich, Miller, Stockton, Malone...who is really going to knock any of these guys as not being some of the very greatest of all time?

The Mavs are in it because they're a good team lead by an amazing player. Teams were "in it" against Jordan, too, so I'm not exactly sure why the Mavs making it a series would be such damning evidence against LeBron's ability. My point is that a player that can be considered the best by far in basketball should win this series with that supporting cast. If the Heat win and LeBron dominates game 6 and 7, then I rescind some but not all of my comments. This is an asinine approach. So if they lose it this year but then win it next year in commanding fashion with LeBron kicking ass everything changes? Really? It comes down to that small a sample size with you? Don't worry. I doubt it happens. I can't recall seeing you in the Cubs game threads much; does this "stats are deceiving, sample size uber alles" translate over there, too?

Because of his per game averages of 27.7 (regular season and 28.2 (playoffs)??? While having similar TS% and eFG as St. Michael? Gasp...you are comparing LeBron James to Michael in terms of scoring?! Blasphemy! Yes, LeBron puts up gaudy stats. We've all seen them. He's fantasy basketball king. But in real basketball, King James is playing with another top 5 player, a top 20 player, and a pretty damn good supporting cast. And he is losing in the finals while having scored 2 pathetic points in the fourth quarter the last 2 games when his team needed points the most. You would've thought he'd have won something by now playing his entire career with such talent while putting up those stats. There's always an excuse for LeBron not winning, because he puts up those stats. The stats people will always assume that its not his fault. This might have worked with Cleveland, but it's over now. No more excuses like that. Of course, I'm sure LeBron supporters will continue to find blame in the supporting cast because the stats say he's the best ever. Since its been tough to blame Wade, Bosh, Miller, Chalmers and Bibby lately, then maybe they'll blame Ilgauskas and Howard the finals loss. By the way, I have nothing against math. I use statistics a lot in what I do for a living. But I feel that stats can be misleading and are overused. So what was Jordan's excuse?

Yes, nobody can compare one player to another player until both player's careers are done.

Exactly right. Unfortunately, Jordan hero worship and the fact that he's become so unlikable has spawned the worst case of moving target, meatheaded sports arguments I've ever seen. Pretty much. I can't stand the guy, but most of the arguments against him here are beyond meatball.

The Mavs are in it because they're a good team lead by an amazing player. Teams were "in it" against Jordan, too, so I'm not exactly sure why the Mavs making it a series would be such damning evidence against LeBron's ability. My point is that a player that can be considered the best by far in basketball should win this series with that supporting cast. If the Heat win and LeBron dominates game 6 and 7, then I rescind some but not all of my comments. This is an asinine approach. So if they lose it this year but then win it next year in commanding fashion with LeBron kicking ass everything changes? Really? It comes down to that small a sample size with you?

Because of his per game averages of 27.7 (regular season and 28.2 (playoffs)??? While having similar TS% and eFG as St. Michael? Gasp...you are comparing LeBron James to Michael in terms of scoring?! Blasphemy! Yes, LeBron puts up gaudy stats. We've all seen them. He's fantasy basketball king. But in real basketball, King James is playing with another top 5 player, a top 20 player, and a pretty damn good supporting cast. And he is losing in the finals while having scored 2 pathetic points in the fourth quarter the last 2 games when his team needed points the most. You would've thought he'd have won something by now playing his entire career with such talent while putting up those stats. And if he doesn't win it this year then that's the cutoff. One year with Wade & Bosh, that's it, everything afterwards doesn't count. Jordan was able to get it done instantly with Pippen and Grant and Paxson. BASKETBALL LORE HAS SPOKEN.