Drew Doughty

oh yeah i really hammered that point home didn't I? By saying, "pressure hendry or something." wow how could anyone resist that terrifically supported premise. Alright, next time I'll be sure to whip out my mind reading apparatus to better discern which arguments you are serious about. i was sort of serious about it, but i was never really on the argument to begin with. i briefly mentioned it in one post. still besides the point though. guzman to the pen is a bad idea.

hahahaha, is this for real? At least two different posters, maybe three came up with roles for the pen to be effective without the madness of demoting Guzman. Hilarious. All of them are ridiculous, and would quite simply result in more burnout on the good arms we do have. Either that, or they wouldn't result in much change at all. You can't have it both ways. You either lean on Wuertz, Ohman, and Dempster more and risk burning them out quicker, or you pitch Eyre and Howry and give up leads. Lou is making a move that provides a new resource in the pen. I don't like it, but these other ideas are woefully inadequate. You can't carry deadweight in your pen, TT. That's just a fact. so how is moving guzman to the pen a good move? just because other moves are bad doesn't mean you make a different bad move. Let's get back to the original point. How is calling Lou stupid a valid assertion when you don't have a better solution? The best thing to do would be to swap roles. Move Wuertz to late inning guy with Cotts and Howry getting work earlier in games (with Marmol being used some in the same situations). Make Eyre the mop-up guy (or the role that Cotts had early in the year). That makes the bullpen slightly better. The best thing to do would be for Hendry to not spend money on relievers willy-nilly, but that isn't about to stop, so there isn't anything Lou can do. My solution would be to change the usage roles and experiment with minor leaguers (like Cherry and Marmol). Moving our best option for 5th starter (aka not tom glavine) to the bullpen to "solve" the bullpen problem isn't an actual solution. I've already been over that, it's a stab in the dark, not one bit more demonstrably better than Lou's option, none of you have a clue if it would work or not. It would likely just result in too many innings for Wuertz and Cotts -- with Marmol walking guys like water through a strainer. But hey, don't let that stop you from declaring Lou to be stupid. LOL. You just got done arguing that Hendry should be "pressured" by Lou. Backtracking off that one a little, eh? oh yeah i really hammered that point home didn't I? By saying, "pressure hendry or something." wow how could anyone resist that terrifically supported premise.

He's not been determined to be an "effective starter" based on 2 starts. what? I'm determining him to be effective based on his talent + his 3 starts this year + a body of minor league work. And it doesn't really matter if he's effective or not, his replacement is probably going to be worse than he would have been in the same situation. His ERA was over 10 in the minors this year. What on earth are you talking about? He's had 2 good starts this year, last year he was terrible. You seem to want to put him on the level of a Lilly or a Marquis. He's a young arm who recently had a couple good starts. Hopefully it turns into more.[/quote] No one is saying Guzman is dominant or equal to Lilly/Marquis/Glavine. [/b] Those are effective starters. What is Guzman then? He's a young guy who is still getting himself together, far from a sure thing as a starter. So let's quit pretending Lou's throwing sure-fire starter stats out of the lineup, alright? Those are good-great starters. Your definition of effective is probably different than mine (apparently). I would be happy with Guzman if he gave me an ERA below 5. Guzman has been effective so far and is definitely the best option for 5th starter currently on the team.

hahahaha, is this for real? At least two different posters, maybe three came up with roles for the pen to be effective without the madness of demoting Guzman. Hilarious. All of them are ridiculous, and would quite simply result in more burnout on the good arms we do have. Either that, or they wouldn't result in much change at all. You can't have it both ways. You either lean on Wuertz, Ohman, and Dempster more and risk burning them out quicker, or you pitch Eyre and Howry and give up leads. Lou is making a move that provides a new resource in the pen. I don't like it, but these other ideas are woefully inadequate. You can't carry deadweight in your pen, TT. That's just a fact. so how is moving guzman to the pen a good move? just because other moves are bad doesn't mean you make a different bad move. Let's get back to the original point. How is calling Lou stupid a valid assertion when you don't have a better solution? The best thing to do would be to swap roles. Move Wuertz to late inning guy with Cotts and Howry getting work earlier in games (with Marmol being used some in the same situations). Make Eyre the mop-up guy (or the role that Cotts had early in the year). That makes the bullpen slightly better. The best thing to do would be for Hendry to not spend money on relievers willy-nilly, but that isn't about to stop, so there isn't anything Lou can do. My solution would be to change the usage roles and experiment with minor leaguers (like Cherry and Marmol). Moving our best option for 5th starter (aka not tom glavine) to the bullpen to "solve" the bullpen problem isn't an actual solution.

He's not been determined to be an "effective starter" based on 2 starts. what? I'm determining him to be effective based on his talent + his 3 starts this year + a body of minor league work. And it doesn't really matter if he's effective or not, his replacement is probably going to be worse than he would have been in the same situation. His ERA was over 10 in the minors this year. What on earth are you talking about? He's had 2 good starts this year, last year he was terrible. You seem to want to put him on the level of a Lilly or a Marquis. He's a young arm who recently had a couple good starts. Hopefully it turns into more. No, I want to put him on the level of effective 5th starter. You want me to put him on the level of Lilly/Marquis because it makes you feel better about your point.

hahahaha, is this for real? At least two different posters, maybe three came up with roles for the pen to be effective without the madness of demoting Guzman. Hilarious. All of them are ridiculous, and would quite simply result in more burnout on the good arms we do have. Either that, or they wouldn't result in much change at all. You can't have it both ways. You either lean on Wuertz, Ohman, and Dempster more and risk burning them out quicker, or you pitch Eyre and Howry and give up leads. Lou is making a move that provides a new resource in the pen. I don't like it, but these other ideas are woefully inadequate. You can't carry deadweight in your pen, TT. That's just a fact. so how is moving guzman to the pen a good move? just because other moves are bad doesn't mean you make a different bad move.

Huh? that's what you're advocating. you're saying he shouldn't be content with what he has -- which is fine -- so he should make a move. he doesn't have much he can do. moving guzman is not the right idea. pressure hendry to make a move or something, but don't move an effective starter to the bullpen. it's just a bad idea. Pressure Hendry? Are you serious? Don't you think if there was a bullpen fix out there Hendry would be all over it? Maybe, but probably not based on his career of making the wrong move. His solution for the pen frequently involves throwing money at veterans coming off of career years. I bet we end up with Troy Percival.

He's not been determined to be an "effective starter" based on 2 starts. what? I'm determining him to be effective based on his talent + his 3 starts this year + a body of minor league work. And it doesn't really matter if he's effective or not, his replacement is probably going to be worse than he would have been in the same situation.

Huh? that's what you're advocating. you're saying he shouldn't be content with what he has -- which is fine -- so he should make a move. he doesn't have much he can do. moving guzman is not the right idea. pressure hendry to make a move or something, but don't move an effective starter to the bullpen. it's just a bad idea. Guzman has had 2 good starts, it's ridiculous to talk about him like he's Tom Glavine or something. Your 'solution' of changing usage patterns isn't likely to be any more effective, and nowhere has Lou said this would be a permanent move. You said it's change just for the sake of change. I say you're complaining just to complain. fine. keep using straw man arguments. attack me instead of attacking the point. keep up the great work. There isn't much Lou can do. He's handcuffed. Moving Guzman to the pen isn't a good idea.

And I will tell you why you are wrong. As a situational pitcher, he is brought in to face batters, usually with runners on in dire situations. Lifetime numbers for Ohman are terrible. He has 33 walks with RISP in 36 IP. That is god awful for a relief pitcher. 6 of those are IBB, but 27 is still ridiculous nonetheless. This year, its 4 walks in 3.2 IP with RISP. LOOGYs need to get the people they face out, not walk them and add to the problems. If he is going to be put in the situation as a reliever with runners on base in scoring position, then he needs to do his job...and he isnt. Need to get rid of him and move on. the issue with this argument is that he's not being used as a loogy. Plus there's that whole sample size issue. you're limiting it way way down if you're looking at this season. he has given up a run against lefties w/ risp, but he's given up 4 against righties.

You're way overstating this. It's just a reallocation of the roles in the pen. Howry and (especially) Eyre will throw less innings, but no one's suggesting banishing them until there's a 10 run difference before letting them on the field. The risk of overuse is the same as it would be if Howry/Eyre were pitching well. Alright, then what you're talking about isn't really going to net much of a difference. Howry & Eyre will still be pitched.....will still suck, still blow leads for us. Unless they suddenly see the light, Lou will have to pull them to save leads, resulting in more innings for our current BP pitchers, which = more burnout. Net result, probably much the same. I don't like moving Guzman to the pen either. I'm not sure any of these other options are all that great. If we could make a trade I'm sure Hendry would. Howry (as you saw today) is not getting any better. Same with Erye. Sure this sucks, but what else can we do? I'll tell you what I *won't* do. Call Lou an idiot or stupid for attempting to deal with a very difficult situation, when there really aren't any other good options. as much as it's a bad situation, lou does pretty much nothing to correct it. the only thing he's done so far (gooz to the pen) is not smart. What do you suggest? Just ride out what he has? no, he could change his usage patterns. guzman to the pen screams of making a move for the sake of making a move. So your comfortable with plugging in Wuertz and Cotts instead of Howry and Eyre? i'm not ever comfortable with a bullpen, but it's better than Eyre or Howry. Just making a move like this isn't going to fix things. It's sort of like the idea of dealing from a position of depth to correct a position of scarcity, except we're dealing from a position of scarcity to correct another position of scarcity.

Huh? that's what you're advocating. you're saying he shouldn't be content with what he has -- which is fine -- so he should make a move. he doesn't have much he can do. moving guzman is not the right idea. pressure hendry to make a move or something, but don't move an effective starter to the bullpen. it's just a bad idea.

You're way overstating this. It's just a reallocation of the roles in the pen. Howry and (especially) Eyre will throw less innings, but no one's suggesting banishing them until there's a 10 run difference before letting them on the field. The risk of overuse is the same as it would be if Howry/Eyre were pitching well. Alright, then what you're talking about isn't really going to net much of a difference. Howry & Eyre will still be pitched.....will still suck, still blow leads for us. Unless they suddenly see the light, Lou will have to pull them to save leads, resulting in more innings for our current BP pitchers, which = more burnout. Net result, probably much the same. I don't like moving Guzman to the pen either. I'm not sure any of these other options are all that great. If we could make a trade I'm sure Hendry would. Howry (as you saw today) is not getting any better. Same with Erye. Sure this sucks, but what else can we do? I'll tell you what I *won't* do. Call Lou an idiot or stupid for attempting to deal with a very difficult situation, when there really aren't any other good options. as much as it's a bad situation, lou does pretty much nothing to correct it. the only thing he's done so far (gooz to the pen) is not smart. What do you suggest? Just ride out what he has? no, he could change his usage patterns. guzman to the pen screams of making a move for the sake of making a move.

You're way overstating this. It's just a reallocation of the roles in the pen. Howry and (especially) Eyre will throw less innings, but no one's suggesting banishing them until there's a 10 run difference before letting them on the field. The risk of overuse is the same as it would be if Howry/Eyre were pitching well. Alright, then what you're talking about isn't really going to net much of a difference. Howry & Eyre will still be pitched.....will still suck, still blow leads for us. Unless they suddenly see the light, Lou will have to pull them to save leads, resulting in more innings for our current BP pitchers, which = more burnout. Net result, probably much the same. I don't like moving Guzman to the pen either. I'm not sure any of these other options are all that great. If we could make a trade I'm sure Hendry would. Howry (as you saw today) is not getting any better. Same with Erye. Sure this sucks, but what else can we do? I'll tell you what I *won't* do. Call Lou an idiot or stupid for attempting to deal with a very difficult situation, when there really aren't any other good options. as much as it's a bad situation, lou does pretty much nothing to correct it. the only thing he's done so far (gooz to the pen) is not smart.

Our pen(especially since we've already added Marmol which makes Guzman redundant) and Guzman are better than you're giving them credit for. Case in point... This argument I won't buy...The pen is utterly terrible and needs to be corrected. Maybe Marmol can be effective for us but he showed his obvious lack of control has not went anywhere with his appearance today. Bringing him in with men on base is asking for disaster. I will give the pen zero credit aside from Wuertz and Dempster in save situations. Dempster has been very good, Wuertz is good and should be the 8th inning guy, Ohman has continued to be effective as a LOOGY, Cotts has been better than expected, and Howry is better than his current production(his BABIP should be about .030 lower, a huge difference for a reliever). With the addition of Marmol, you have Howry, Cotts, and Marmol as options(who you have varying levels of comfort with) to get you through the 7th(plus Ohman as a lefty assassin), and pitch the 8th/9th occasionally in games with large deficits. It's far from a disaster. Oh wow. This is what I won't buy into anymore, I've listened to it all year and have said it myself. Ohman is getting better, yet still sucks. What did he do today? Let gritty Erstad on, got Uribe out I believe, then walked AJ. Small sample sure, but its getting old. Despite the struggle, he is a decent loogy career wise so hes not all bad. Howry has been a disgrace, his numbers indicate exactly how hes pitched. His BABIP might me lower if his fastball wasn't straighter then a arrow. Hes terrible, Dusty taxed him and the 07' Cubs are seeing this first hand. Hes no longer an 8th inning guy. We can't say Howry, Marmol and Cotts will get us through the 7th, how many times have we had to call in our best reliever Wuertz to get us out of those early situations? Do you want to see wild Marmol or Howry pitching with the bases loaded? The bullpen is a joke and should have no confidence in it until it manages to go a whole week without blowing holds and saves. Bullpen apologists be damned. Will Ohman is a LOOGY and he's doing that well: .100/.217/.150/.367 in 20 ABs. Too bad Piniella keeps making him face righties...where he sucks (25 ABs, .853 OPS-against). I know he is a LOOGY, I have said he has good numbers career-wise many times but how many walks has he given up? His act is getting old like everyone else in that pen. he's walked 3 in 23 tries against lefties, which is a crappy ratio, but he's not giving up much of anything else. he's given up a total of 5 baserunners in 23 tries against lefties. the issue is that he's faced 27 righties on top of that. his act is getting old because Lou can't figure him out. I'm tired of the "feeling out process" excuse, it's too far into the season for him to not understand his team yet.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270519116 Uh-oh, Ozzie is playing to win. Rookie pitcher against the Cubs? He'll shut them down. Didn't the Cubs do pretty good against McCarthy when he made his major league debut? not really. 5.1, 4 H, 1 BB, 2 ER. Mark Prior pitched really well that day.

wooo the only team i still care about wins! GO SENS GO!

if they suspend the game until tomorrow, would both games be on WGN?

The Cubs will win tomorrow.

We will win tonight.

i can't see the giants giving up Lincecum if they're in it in July because he will likely have been one of the driving forces behind them still being in the race. Don't want any part of Ervin Santana or Jered Weaver either. Santana is AWFUL on the road. Weaver...well...meh. He's okay, but I think we could do better. Don't look at his run out of the gates at th beginning of his career as an indicator of future success. He also added about 120 innings last year from his professional debut, which I don't really like for his future. Didn't he have arm problems in march/april? If Z starts pitching well, we could do a whole lot better than ESantana or Weaver, I think.

I don't think so...last April a Marlins game was on WCIU/ESPN and aired on ESPN, so it may be that you will see this game anyway. Wasn't that the game that Z broke the bat over his knee? yes

We will win tomorrow.

you would be more than hated. if you were going into the season with a rotation of Zambrano Lilly Marquis Hill Miller and you traded Zambrano, you should have been fired. it sounds good in hindsight, but unless you thought you weren't contending this year -- which really should never be an option for a big market team like the Cubs -- trading Zambrano would have been a terrible idea.

Pagan probably will start 1-2 games a week-that's about the average amount of times the team should face a left-hander, and Pagan was brought up to play against LHP. That makes no sense...Pagan was terrible vs LHP last season. So is Jones, and so is Pie. It's not a great option, but it will hopefully be a small improvement, and Pagan has been good against LHP so far this year in the minors. The thing that seperates those 3 is that Felix Pie is your best defender. Felix Pie is your CF of the future. Felix Pie should get the chance to be your everyday CF until he proves otherwise. or he should get ABs everyday. which he isn't getting here. putting him in against lefties only sets him up to fail, which is a horrible idea. pagan sucks, yes, but he's a better option to fit the role of CF v. lefties/pinch runner than pie.