Pitching abuse was much more widespread than the notion that managers don't really matter. I know I had those conversations with people on the espn board, but those people mostly came here. There were not, however, many of them. I mean, you can disagree all you want; I'm just trying to answer your question. Mostly people simply did not view him as the monster he would become. Yes, I understand there were a lot of ignorant people who couldn't foresee the coming catastrophe, what I'm saying is there had to be somebody else. I was with you, jersey. I was probably around a 2 when Dusty was signed.