SpongeWorthy

ND plays a 3-4. Which are the back 7? A handful of ND DBs, including 3 safeties, are on NFL rosters. And Manti will be. And Gary Gray has been incredible this year (admittedly, for the first time in his 4 years, though his leg injury messed him up). I don't know how much is development, how much is different systems, etc. The seniors, for example, have played the 4-3, 3-4, 4-3, 3-4 in their 4 years. And last year was Tenuta's 4-3, which is a different animal and there was a lot of in-fighting between Tenuta and Brown b/c their systems were opposite ends of the spectrum. Some people close to the team are saying how happy the DBs are to just be playing in a system where all the coaches agree. Yes, if you're just looking at the screen, ND's talent hasn't looked great at times. But I don't trust your eye for talent more than Rivals. Rivals says ND has as much talent on its roster as any team not named USC and maybe Florida. So if Kelly is really the great coach he's supposed to be, he'll turn that talent into wins. If not, some other guy will be in SB in 3-5 years. Hopefully Kelly leaves the cupboard as "bare" as Weis did. The same guys who rate prospects for Rivals can also look at a Notre Dame game and see that their talent isn't of the same quality as other powerhouse programs. It's better than most but not that level. That's most simply reflected in the drafting of those very same players into the NFL. And Weis didn't recruit Ndukwe or Zbikowski. Other than that, who has he put in the league on defense or along the offensive line? The top programs put guys into the league year after year. ND's only shown they can do that with skill players in the Weis era. Maybe it is development...and it probably mostly is, but I don't see the raw athleticism at linebacker, offensive line, defensive line, and especially in the secondary for the most part. Justin Tuck is the last guy I'd look at from Notre Dame and can immediately say, "ok yeah, that guys a freak." Manti's getting there.

ok - first of all - UM fans were livid in RichRod's first year. If you don't think so, teleport yourself back to Michigan that year. It was unbearable. Lots of teams' fans get pissed when their unrealistic expectations aren't met. No one (except maybe Andy) is saying there's a mandate that ND be good every year. They've been treading water (or worse) since Lou left. Lots of people are frustrated. ND doesn't have average talent, which is the most frustrating part. They have youth and inexperience at some very key positions (QB and both OTs) and a couple key injuries (Crist in the UM game and the only FS on the team missed UM and MSU). But a large part of the frustration is the wealth of talent (based solely on recruiting star numbers, which is all casual fans really have to go on, ND is in the #2-5 mix with Florida and Texas, right behind the cheating juggernaut that is Southern Cal). Weis was not a player developer, outside QBs. He just didn't emphasize it enough and it might have been his biggest drawback. But he recruited really well. I don't really think ND is in that mix. Maybe at the glamor positions. If you can look at an Alabama/LSU/Ohio State/Oklahoma game and then at a ND game and tell me the talent level is fairly equal...I don't know what to tell you (not you, you, the casual ND fan or anyone else who would think that). All I can tell you is to look at the recruiting rankings, esp for players still on the rosters (unlike Alabama, where 100 kids get offers for 25 spots...feels like a law firm). Here's a WSJ article that lists ND as 3rd behind USC and Florida: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703447004575449721827527374.html?mod=WSJ_LifeStyle_Sports_RightTopCarousel_1. The talent hasn't translated into great performance, but the raw talent is there. If only we had a molder of men. Oh wait, we tried that and it failed miserably. I haven't seen a player in ND's back 7 on defense in years who really pops off the screen athletically, besides Manti and maybe Zbikowski (who was a Willingham recruit, IIRC). Bama and Ohio State are littered with those type of guys. Is it ALL player development? It's a huge part of it but I'm skeptical. I don't put much stock in those star ratings. USC hasn't played a complete game since the Rose Bowl game against Penn State and there's a pretty big gap between #1 and #2 by that metric.

It's easy to be faux outraged when you're consistently overstating ND's importance to another teams resume. Christ, how many people were even watching Stanford dismantle ND with all the other games that were going on? They've accumulated a decent a body of work. You're not even acknowledging that UCLA killed Texas a couple weeks after being dominated by Stanford...it's an anti-ND plot! Next Andy will be claiming that it's because of Notre Dame that Luck goes top 5 in the draft next year. (also ND was good in 2002 and 2005 when they supposedly won Palmer and Bush their Heismans, not irrelevant)

It has as much to do with Stanford thrashing UCLA who just throttled Texas on the road as it does with Stanford pounding ND. I think Stanford is really good and clearly better than the 4 teams you mentioned them jumping.

ok - first of all - UM fans were livid in RichRod's first year. If you don't think so, teleport yourself back to Michigan that year. It was unbearable. Lots of teams' fans get pissed when their unrealistic expectations aren't met. No one (except maybe Andy) is saying there's a mandate that ND be good every year. They've been treading water (or worse) since Lou left. Lots of people are frustrated. ND doesn't have average talent, which is the most frustrating part. They have youth and inexperience at some very key positions (QB and both OTs) and a couple key injuries (Crist in the UM game and the only FS on the team missed UM and MSU). But a large part of the frustration is the wealth of talent (based solely on recruiting star numbers, which is all casual fans really have to go on, ND is in the #2-5 mix with Florida and Texas, right behind the cheating juggernaut that is Southern Cal). Weis was not a player developer, outside QBs. He just didn't emphasize it enough and it might have been his biggest drawback. But he recruited really well. I don't really think ND is in that mix. Maybe at the glamor positions. If you can look at an Alabama/LSU/Ohio State/Oklahoma game and then at a ND game and tell me the talent level is fairly equal...I don't know what to tell you (not you, you, the casual ND fan or anyone else who would think that).

Man I want Wilson to do well but he's dying out there. Baptism by fire I guess. Rex still won't give him help over the top.

Not really. Week 1 sure, brilliant in week 2, and really good so far tonight. Last season was up and down as you'd expect from a rookie QB (who came out a year early after only starting 15 games in college) and he played pretty well in the playoffs. He's probably better than Carson Palmer at this point, sadly.

Why didn't you respond to my troll yesterday in the NCAA thread when I called OU's offense girly? Because it is.

Oh hey it's just Mark Sanchez throwing pin point touchdown strikes all over the #1 defense in the NFL. (ignore me i've been drinking steadily for 8 hours)

That may be a slight exaggeration. But there was a lot of writing him off as if the season he had last year was bad for an early entry rookie QB. sulley pretty much did say that but no one takes anything he says seriously, you might know something about that HEH HEH

Look at that awful Mark Sanchez who has no chance of getting better.

Too many blows to the head during his career.

Haha, Janikowski blows it.

Leon Washington has housed 2 kickoffs for TDs against San Diego.

lol Skins lol

Yeah and Brandon Lloyd has 169 yards receiving and a touchdown. wtf

Is Michael Vick the best player in the NFL?

If Miami beats the Jets they'll be 3-0.

Poor Samurai Mike.

I'm so tired of watching Oklahoma's girly little offense. It's seriously a little gay.

People say this every year about whatever supposed dominant team is out there. Of course, sometimes it's true but no one rolls through their schedule without a couple scares here and there.

Oh yeah, congrats Raisin. Talk about an unexpected resurrection of your season...what a weird team.

Does Florida have a chance against Alabama?

Welp, Bama's gonna grind them down on this drive.

We just call it Game Manager.