waffle

I like it. Can you imagine all of the "Aramis doesn't hustle" crowd dealing with Andruw? Talk about exploding heads... I know. The thing is that Jones is so fluid that it looks like he isn't hustling when he is, IMO. Did you see his catch last night? I did indeed. I would be incredibly happy with Jones in CF at Wrigley. It was an idea that I brought up a month or so ago with my dad and he flipped. His first argument was, exactly, "that guy has no hustle at all! He doesn't even try unless he hits one of the park!" Some people... If you get Andruw and keep ARam (and assumin we do nothing else to improve the everyday team, which is unlikely, IMO), you have a lineup that potentially looks something like this: Murt Izturis Lee A. Jones ARam Barrett J. Jones Cedeno Not great, but not horrendous, especially in our League. If you then bolster the starting staff with Schmidt and another, B-level starter, that's not a bad team, and likely good enough to at least win the WC. Exactly. ITS NOT THAT BAD Take that team, add a manager who actually cares about winning and losing. LOSES SLEEP over it and takes pleasure in playing consistent, solid baseball, and add (for comparison purposes) average pitching, and you cannot tell me that lineup couldn't be competitive. Are we that bad? Is detroit that good? Are the Reds that much better? The Phillies? The Dodgers? THE PADRES???? Sure, this lineup isn't perfect by any stretch and I have not claimed it is, but it is better than a 60-70 win team. If this team performed up to expectations under a coach who had a clue and played with FIRE EVERY DAY it could be competing for the WC and/or the division.

Believe that all you want, but it was the tangibles that sunk this ship. Too many overly aggressive hitters. Too many guys who value putting the ball in play over getting on base. Too few baserunners, not enough power. And the pitching staff that has allowed so many baserunners in recent years simply imploded with the burden of constantly working under pressure. They don't have the benefit of an offense that will bail them out, and they always work with men on base because they walk so many. The Cubs problems center on the walk, they have for years. They don't take enough and they surrender enough. It's a very tangible problem that was never addressed because management doesn't see it as a problem. It's not intangibles that hurt, it's very real, measure commodities. Isn't that a coaching issue also?

now note that I will not discount that there is the possibility that this is a crew of mis-matched parts. That the sum is LESS than the parts. That it isn't a well balanced team. Is possible. There have been lots of cubs teams of recent that you looked at the lineup and could state that there was NO WAY, even if they met or exceeded their potential production, that they had a shot at anything. I do not think that is the case with this lineup. I do think that the intangibles are what screwed up this team. - bad balance of players - poor lockeroom/on field leadership - Bad managing/Aweful lineup decisions - Injuries - Guys who are unable to, or are allowed to play as if winning was a product of their potential/not their actual production. If the above intangibles swung to the Cubbies FAVOR as opposed to the current situation, I think this team could have at least competed for the WC and likely the division (our division STINKS). I mean, LOOK AT THE REDS, are the REALLY that much better than us????? And I am not saying we are good, but the reds are AWEFULLY mediocre....

We are that awful. Your plan is to hope for the best. That's a bad way to build a team. You have to build a team by factoring in setbacks. You cannot build a team that will succeed only if people meet and exceed expectations. But that is what happens every year. THere are teams that look loaded and BOMB and teams that look average but exceed expectations. Not every team can be the yankees and spend 2x to almost guarantee a level of competitiveness.... Note, that I did not put down what their ceiling is, but their potential per their position against the mean in the the NL (I don't know the AL well enough). Per position by potential production, we are at least competitive at almost every position. Sorry, but this is the way you need to look at this, you cannot discount the variability of performance.

There's plenty of room for moves. A creative GM with an ounce of foresight would be able to make great strides this offseason. The current roster is completely unacceptable and only has potential for mediocrity. If your goal is to try and get back to .500, then maybe you can still relatively still. But that's a loser's goal and for this team to be a winner they need massive change. See, don't know. If you compare player for player our team with any of the other teams actually competing this year I think you have to say we have the potential with THIS team to be competitive, but the injuries, the attitude and the coaching and AWEFUL player decisions have made us a fiasco. You have to look at it in the POTENTIAL perspective, as any team that wins it all has a GOOD year in terms of potential, ie, more guys meeting or exceeding their expectations. So let's look at our lineup that way, against other competitive teams Potential production for 2007 1b - above average potential 2b - below average (for now) ss - average potential/high variability 3b - above average potential C - above average potential lf - average/high variablility CF - average to above average potential (Pierre). This guy was this straw that stirred the drink on some very competitive Fla teams RF - um, well. YUCK We just are not that aweful in my opinion. A good manager I think could help these guys play with some fire and some pride and some accountability. Dusty just gives them too many excuses, refuses to hold them responsible for what is an AWEFUL performance.

yeah, its funny, but I look at our starting 8 and figure we are unlikely to make alot of moves Catcher - set 3b - hopefully still set 1b - set SS - I think Izzy will be there next year 2B - Big question. That image in the rear view mirror is Ced regressing. Could be be an everyday 2b/ss? I think so, can we afford to wait? LF - Let Murton Develop. He's at least average out there and is still young CF - I'd be fine if Pierre came back. If he had more quality hitting around him consistently I think he would have a much better year RF - Jones was a mistake to begin with. Yikes Pitching, however, is a mess. Hopefully this year was an abberation, not something that you can plan for or respond to. Z - Solid Pick 2 of any 5 rooks 1 decent FA signing/1 fat old vet FA signing I do like our depth in the Pen. I think we could go into the season with much of what we have now. Decide is Dempster is just running out of gas a bit or is not well suited for the role. That really isn't alot of potential movement. I look at that team and I don't vomit, I see that it has potential. I am one of those people who believes that coaching does matter. that a coach can set the tone for a whole season/for a whole team. Dusty's tone? Um, "gosh, weird stuff just keeps on hapnin, what you expect me to do?" In Other words, could we please have someone else at the helm of the SS Cubs?

ok fine. what about the other 8? pretty set

I was thinking about this last night, and I agree with someone's analysis earlier in the thread. Our lineup for next year is likely pretty set. Our infield is set I think with Lee/Ram/Cedeno/Iz/Barret. That looks pretty good I expect us to sign Pierre Unfortunately it looks like Jones is staying Murton or someone else, I'd rather play Murton. That is likely to be your starting D for next year. Is it terrible? No. Pitching obviously is a big ? mark I think a good manager could make that team competitive. Unfortunately....

I was listening to a local sports show here in philly, and a guy I REALLY respect said in passing that teams were trying to trade for Big Z, I BELIEVE it was the yanks, but as I said, I was not really listening. This just seems really unlikely to me. To me he might be the only untouchable on this whole darn mess of a team... so when you look at it that way, OF COURSE they would trade him! What am I thinking!

HIS Players, kinda sounds like a certain Larry Brown, eh? They should make a 365 day calendar with a different Dusty excuse each day. I'd buy it.

Nah, I'm stuck in depression. I've been a fan for soooo frickin long, and a true fan, never wavered. I haven't even lived in Illinois in (let me work this out...) 24 years (yikes!) and still make every effort to get to games (in philly) and watch them as much as possible. I WEAR A CUBS HAT IN PUBLIC. IN PHILADELPHIA. Say no more I cannot stand the lack of anything to hang my hopes on with this team Dusty is beyond aweful. He reminds me of our current president. Always making the wrong choice when given a 50/50. Always blaming everyone else. A weenie The team plays with no fire. NONE. I love gamers. I love taking the extra base. I love bang bang double plays. I love dirty uniforms..... See a pattern? And the hope of EVERY CUB fan, the chant for the last 100 years is "wait until next year". I just cannot bring myself to feel that optimism. They don't seem to be able to develop talent. They seem to have an amazing inability to sign valuable FA's. I have no confidence in the management of this organization. Just having a great ballpark and loyal fans who fill it every home game does not indicate that you are doing an acceptable job. It is a luxury that you should value and reward every frickin year, not every 30 years (or every 100....) This year is different. This year is worse.

I'm usually not one of those guys who's first reaction is "fire the manager!" For Dusty, I'll make an exception...

At this point, even more cow bell would be a welcome change of pace. You know it's bad when you would be thrilled to see some well played .500 ball from your team. Losing is one thing, but finding ways to lose and looking lost doing it really makes me wince.

I mean, shouldn't we at least enjoy watching the friggin games???? How did they manage to extract that? That I would rather watch a game between almost any 2 teams in the league than I would one involving my cubs? It hurts. It's like finding out your son has been stealing. It leaves you feeling sad and empty. This stuff matters.

It's tough being a cubs fan, but this year particularly. We have, what, the 5th highest payroll? We have a manager who ALWAYS seems one step behind both in terms of player personnel as well as on the field. We have a bunch of players who seem to have NO FIRE AT ALL. We rarely win games via fundemental baseball (defense and created runs) which makes for BORING BASEBALL We have a GM who makes moves that are obviously cases of wishful thinking to everyone but him We have shown little inclination to try to consistenly develop talent We have a pitching staff in total disarray. I would rather watch a team like the Marlins, full of kids that show effort and fire on a daily basis than this group. This is not an entertaining team in ANY WAY. At least if we play the kids we can hope and dream that they will develop over time. But with this management there is always this feeling that they will lose patience too early and instead sign some journeyman vet. I have been following the cubs for many many many years now, and this edition is pretty much the least interesting to watch of any I can remember. Is it college basketball season yet?

I think you just stick Murton out there and let him develop. We are not making the playoffs this year. MOST MLB players take time to develop (outside of the occasional Pujols). Despite our 100 mil payroll you have to develop some talent in house to be a competitive team. You simply cannot hope to land enough FA talent to fill a roster (recognizing that you are bidding against 30 odd other teams and the guy is a FA often for a good reason....). The cubs rarely make the bold move in a timely fashion. They tend to over-react, however, in the wrong way and at the wrong time. The are like a poker player who puts more money into a pot simply because he is already there. Good money after bad. If you have a loser you fold and wait to see what the next hand holds. Play the kids. Pay BIG MONEY for big time talent. Work on the farm system. Stockpile pitching (at least that they seem to agree on). Stress the fundamentals. Get a manager who is respected, not liked.

a favorite Moved back to Illinois to go to grad school. Was working at the Illinois State Geologic Survey analyzing oil well readings. Listening to the FIRST GAME OF THE YEAR. Cubs up 1 or 2 in the 9th. They bring in Wild Thing. His first game as a cub. Walks the first man.... o.k.... walks the 2nd man... hum.... walks the 3rd man... head in hands now..... Strikes out the side. It was that kind of year.

have you ever watched Leiberthal play? And for all his O Piazza was brutal back there. Barret is serviceable, little else

Jose Cardinal Billy Williams mark Grace Ernie Ryno Not quite making the cut (top 5 is hard) lots of love for the entire '84 starting rotation. Rich Reuschel Fergie Sutter Ron Santo The hawk Jody Jody Jody Matlock

exactly. If you want guarantees, don't follow sports. I also believe that this staff has the potential to carry this team. I don't fault Hendry for the staff he has put together. Now, positions players, that's a bit different.... :roll:

before the year starts I am pretty sure that every team's staff has question marks. Health, physical and mental included. As they say, that's the reason they play the games, to see how things turn out. The Cubbies starting pool of starting talent is POTENTIALLY very good, and has enough depth to address injuries and inconsistency. In order to be one of the elite teams at the end of the season things have to break right for you, that's just the way it is. If things break right (or even just not break badly) for the cubbies I fully expect their starting staff to be one of the best in the NL. But then again.... what if.... * Z gets murdered after acting as a guest referee in a mexican pro league football game * Prior is struck by a low flying condor while vacationing in SD. Not only is his arm hurt but he ends up going to jail as they are endangered * Woody starts out the year ON FIRE. During a game against the astros where it looks like he might exceed his 20 strike out game a load popping sound is heard and his throwing arm disengages mid pitch, landing in the lap of Bill Murray, who, demonstrating his usual humor, makes light of the situation, "come on everybody, let's give Woody a hand.....". Everybody gets a laugh out of it.. *Maddux decides to retire mid-season and follow his true love, country western singing. Cuz you just never know....

they said in the philly paper this am that the deal with Micheals is AT LEAST on hold (no sure what the holdup is). He's young, has a decent glove and arm, seems to be a fairly clutch hitter when given the chance. I think he might end up being a starting RF/LF for us if the deal went through, I think he could maybe beat out either jones or Murton Oh yeah, and he had an incident last year where he hit a cop and really messed him up, so he has that going for him.

Phils are rumored to be trading Micheals for a 37 year old relief chucker from Cleveland (as I remember). That would eliminate the Abreu/OF log jam that they have. With that being said, that is cheap for Micheals. Surely we have a broken down pitcher we could send their way instead?

I live in philly and read about dem phils every day. Correct, they have 1 too many guys out there. It has hardly been a secret that the phils would consider moving abreu, in fact I am fairly confident he will not be a Phil come opening day. I think they MIGHT fall for a package that included Williams. Trust me, Williams is JUST THE KIND OF PLAYER the phils fall for, again and again. Young with a big upside, not yet reached. They are bargain basement shoppers and always have been. But Prior straight up? Not a chance. And philly isn't really in a position to give us a rotation level starter in return. Abreu is a VERY serviceable player, not great, but pretty darn good. Exactly how did he get a gold glove???? He is a very selective hitter and with some talent around him I think could continue to put up pretty nice #'s.

Addition by subtraction methinks Saw that quote from him in the NYT's. Get on base? Hopefully Eric is the bright one in the family...