Tracer Bullet

The problem is worrying about the running game. Top of the order should be about OBP, first and foremost. The running game is vastly overrated. I think the point is to have guys on 2nd and/or 3rd when Lee & Ramirez come up. The point is to get on in the first place. Getting to 2nd/3rd is a bonus. Theriot can get on and score on a Soriano double. Theriot's value is his ability to get on base, more than anything else. Having Soriano in the two hole does not make Theriot less valuable. Fully agree. I'd just like to add - having Soriano in the 2-hole might make him (Soriano) less valuable. All those doubles and HRs are going to be only slightly less wasted in the 2 hole than leading off. He's a 3-5 hitter and should be placed there. Theriot and Murton should be the table-setters.

Jacque Jones has a fairly strong arm, his throws are just all over the place. Matt Murton does not have a very strong arm (or at least he hasn't shown it yet), but seems to make the right throws to cut off men and seems pretty accurate. How is arm strength overrated for the RF position? The RFer has a much longer throw to 3rd base, and a baseball golden rule is to have a strong arm in RF for this reason. Players know who they can and can't run on, and Matt Murton is someone they can run on. Murton's arm strength is a joke, but he is quick from glove to release. That's something Jones is not. Jones has a very exaggerated throwing motion and throws in a couple hops off his back foot just for giggles. That pretty much nullifies the advantages of his stronger arm. I won't even go into accuracy. I'd rather have Murton throwing from RF than Jones, but that's not saying much. Baserunners don't fear either of them. Not that arm strength should be real high on the list of factors when setting the lineup...

I've been saying this for about a month now. Don't get me wrong, I love Matt Murton, and I still think he'll be a very productive player, but there is just no room for a RH bat in the outfield. 1. Like most managers, Lou believes in putting as many LH in to face RHP as is possible. 2. Izturis, Jones and Floyd are the only LH hitters that play (semi) regularly. 3. Jones and Floyd are the only REAL threats from the left side = 4. Jones and Floyd will be in the lineup against 90% of RHP & will almost certainly NOT be traded. ( Jones could be if Pie continues to destroy AAA, but that does nothing for Murton) We would have to acquire a big time LH SS or 2B if we want to see MM play regularly, this season or in the future. And there is no big time LH SS or 2B available. I just don't understand this at all. We don't need more LH bats. We need guys that can hit LHP (or, preferably, guys that can hit both LHP and RHP). The fact that Lou wants more LH bats is just an old traditional stupid thing managers do. It doesn't matter what side of the plate you stand on, what matters is how well you can hit the pitching. One of my biggest problems with trading Murton is it leaves us with an OF of Soriano, JJ, and Floyd. Floyd is no longer an everyday player anyway. But JJ and Floyd both struggle something awful against LHP. When we face a LHP, we're either going to have Soriano, Pagan, DeRosa(?) in the OF or we're going to have to suffer through 3/4 ABs from JJ or Floyd against LHP - which are near automatic outs (Floyd's OBP against LHP hasn't been above .300 since 2003; it's been since '04 for JJ, but that year his SLG against LHP matched his OBP (.329 v. .328 - yikes)). Our bench isn't deep enough to have 2 platoons, especially if we trade Murton. Murton can hit both LHP and RHP. He doesn't slug as well (based on last year's stats) against RHP, but his OBP is still very good (.356). Put him in the 2-spot against all comers for a year and see what happens.

It worked fine for the Tigers in 2000, but I doubt Fontenot will be hitting 3rd. This is a good day for us LSU fans! Yeah, if only Manieri can return them to their past glory. <-- misses Mainieri at ND second

Anyone specific in mind? Sure. Cabrera. Miguel? So are we discussing guys that we actually have a chance to acquire or are we just playing pie in the sky, here? It's hardly pie in the sky. He's not signed past this year, and there's next to no chance Florida keeps him as his salary soars past the $10m mark. His next contract will eclipse what Pujols got. And there's no reason the Cubs can't be the team that gives it to him. You really think the new owner is going to open up the purse for Cabrera with ARam, Lee, and Soriano already here. I can't see us trying to resign Z and giving a guy like Cabrera what it would take to get him. I think it's pretty near pie in the sky. Even if we could acquire him at the deadline, we'd have a tough time signing him. I'd be absolutely floored if he were playing anywhere other than NY or Boston next year.

Anyone specific in mind? Sure. Cabrera. Miguel? So are we discussing guys that we actually have a chance to acquire or are we just playing pie in the sky, here?

Anyone specific in mind?

That's almost too logical.

Matt Murton's career OBP = .368 That is not an "OBP machine" under even the most liberal definition of that term. Even assuming Murton's numbers don't go up in the next 3 years as history would indicate (he's entering his peak years now), his .365 OBP last year was top 25 in the NL. Of NL outfielders, it's top 10. For ML outfielders he's tied for 16th. I don't know how good someone has to be to be considered a "machine" but I think being 16 out of 90 in your first full season (when you're 25) is pretty darn good. If we want to quibble over whether that makes him a machine or not, fine. Either way, his OBP isn't something we should be looking to ship out of town to make Cliff friggin Floyd happy. Apparently, the list of OBP "machines" last year included: Nomar Omar Vizquel Rafael Furcal Jamey Carroll Ichiro Gary Mathews, Jr. Robinson Cano Mark DeRosa Look, I hate to quibble over semantics, but Murton's many advocates on this board have enough good arguments without misrepresenting the facts with a bunch of overinflated rhetoric. Misrepresenting facts? If you want to quibble over whether a .368 career OBP equates to Murton being an "OBP machine" - as I said, that's fine. But I'm not misrepresenting any facts. Murton is not great at everything, but he's young and gets on base at a great rate. There's no reason to believe that he won't improve, given his age. A .368 career OBP (esp from a 25-year-old) is great and should in no way be traded to appease Floyd. As for your list of players - all of them had solid OBP's last season. Many of them are on the wrong side of their prime and haven't consistently put up those numbers in the past and shouldn't be expected to put up those numbers in the future. But that's not the case with Murton. Oh - and you cherry-picked quite a list, but Ichiro, at least during his prime (roughly 01-04) was an OBP machine. I have no problem saying that. He's certainly not what he once was but if Murton matches the OBP Ichiro put up during his 27-30 age years, I'd be thrilled.

Matt Murton's career OBP = .368 That is not an "OBP machine" under even the most liberal definition of that term. Even assuming Murton's numbers don't go up in the next 3 years as history would indicate (he's entering his peak years now), his .365 OBP last year was top 25 in the NL. Of NL outfielders, it's top 10. For ML outfielders he's tied for 16th. I don't know how good someone has to be to be considered a "machine" but I think being 16 out of 90 in your first full season (when you're 25) is pretty darn good. If we want to quibble over whether that makes him a machine or not, fine. Either way, his OBP isn't something we should be looking to ship out of town to make Cliff friggin Floyd happy.

We're trading the youngest with potential to be the best of the 3 going forward (if he's not already) b/c we have so much offense, especially OBP, that we can afford to get rid of a good young OBP machine? Or are we trading Murton b/c our GM signed 2 bad players for the same position and now we feel we need to fix that situation b/c the old bad vets are mad? If it's the 2nd one, that's just not smart business. Floyd's nothing but a PH/bench player at this stage of his career, and should be used accordingly. JJ can hold CF for Pie (hopefully by next year he's ready). Trading a good young player who could become a very good offensive piece for us in the next several years b/c Cliff Floyd thinks (like all old ballplayers) that he's proven himself worthy of starting (even though he's breaking down and way past his prime) is just not smart. Unless we're trading Murton for a stud, I don't see the point in dealing him.

Same here..Except for yesterday with the pinch hit HR, otherwise Im not really into him like most of the murton fan club on here. So you only like him when he hits HRs? Seems fair.

Hard to crack the lineup when you're on the DL. :jocolor: Hard to gloat about another team's best player being on the DL when they've beaten you twice in a row.

Just over $5m/year for a guy that hit 35 HR with a .370+ OBP last season that won't turn 27 until this November? Yeah, that's a good deal.

Why is it a judgment call? Isn't that a no-doubt FC? Even if the batter were bunting for a hit, but the ball was fielded with plenty of time to make an out at first, but the fielder tries for a force at a different base instead, it's still a FC, isn't it?

That's a bench that'll strike fear in the hearts of the rest of the NLC.

Do we have to trade with them? Can't we just give them Miller and be done with it?

Our SS's and CF's have been pretty darn bad. Ugh.

Yeah - Liriano has to take Pedro's spot. At this point, I think Pedro is pretty worn out.

you're kidding yourself. Pitchers make the ultimate call on the pitches they throw. As such, they are responsible! I never said that the pitcher wasn't ultimately responsible. Why do you think guys like Greg Maddux always liked to have a personal catcher? Ego?

I thought I saw some articles today about the Cubs costing themselves money by not having signed him already. I don't know who wrote that, but they aren't watching Z pitch. His stock is going down, if anything. I'm starting to wonder if the sale of the team was a smoke screen to him not signing. Granted it's probably far fetched, but maybe they didn't like what they saw after his first two starts and wanted to hold off on sealing the deal....... I have no idea, but I'm pretty happy we didn't throw a huge pile of money at him before the season started. If his arm is messed up, I'd like to know that (or, more accurately, have the Cubs know that) before they get close to a deal.

Dumb post of the year! :shock: I certainly don't agree with the 2nd part, but I'm not sure it's "post of the year" material.

I thought I saw some articles today about the Cubs costing themselves money by not having signed him already. I don't know who wrote that, but they aren't watching Z pitch. His stock is going down, if anything.

To update: W/Barrett: 16 IP 23 H 20 ER 16 BB, 0-2, 11.25 ERA, 2.44 WHIP Is Henry actually out there throwing the pitches when he starts? I hadn't noticed that.

KCROYALS.COM KC Star He's here to stay. Went 2-4 today, after a 0-4 day yesterday. So, in other words...no.