Tracer Bullet

Are you just bored? Well his BA is higher than our two catchers combined. Just doesn't seem like much of a difference to the outcome of this season. Kind of seems like a waste of Hendry's limited mental resources. Why not just dump one of our 2 Cs and bring up Soto?

your posts...have an...interesting flow

Didn't take me long to learn that most of what Lou says is complete BS. How so? He was the everyday centerfielder. Then he started to suck terribly. You'd rather Lou play Dusty and keep underperformers in the lineup everyday just because he made some statement weeks ago? Everything is contingent on performance, period. You suck, you sit. Lou's been more consistent on this than just about any manager I've ever seen on the North Side. Eyre, Jones, Pie, Izzy.....all have grabbed bench and hard because they weren't cutting it. I'm so tired of this argument. Lou's been around long enough that he should know that all players, regardless of quality, go through bad stretches. You can't bench every player if he hits a slump. That's stupid. Pie's not in a slump, he's just not good enough yet. There's a difference, in his case. And I couldn't care less how 'tired' you get of an argument. Well, I'm glad your expert evaluation has able to determine how good Pie is at this stage in his career. It's invaluable to be able to discern the difference between a guy that's not ready and a guy that's going through the adjustment that nearly every guy does when he first hits the majors. With that type of talent, you should consider joining a ML team. As for the statement - why come out and say a player is going to be an everyday CF (or whatever) when you know you're going to yank them if they're not good right away. Has Lou never managed a rookie? Does he really think every good player to ever play was great from day 1 and never looked back? Not to mention that the general practice of moving guys in/out of the lineup trying to chase the hot streak is a stupid way to manage. It doesn't take rocket science to see he needs more development. Why do you care how Lou chooses to move along that development? You are basically calling him an idiot because he's not developing Pie the way you want him to. Just because he doesn't play him every day, right here & right now, doesn't mean squat as to whether or not he'll be a failure. Maybe he just needs more off the field instruction, which is what is happening. Who are you to say that's the death knell for the kid? As for his statement, as I said it was true at the time. I'm not sure why you keep trying to suggest it was a lie or hypocrisy just because he didn't enslave himself to it for the entire season. No, I'm not blasting Lou for not doing it my way. I'm blasting Lou b/c he's playing Pie like he plays everyone he doesn't consider a stud (Soriano, ARam, Lee) - chase the hot streak. Pie struggled over those first 2 weeks and he quickly hit the bench regularly. Replaced by Pagan and Jones. "Enslave himself to it for the entire season?" Talk about disingenuous. Pie was the everyday CF for about 3 weeks. When you bring your #1 prospect up and tell the media he's going to be your everyday CF, and 3 weeks later sharing time w/ 2 other guys - your statement is BS. I don't see why. Why does it necessarily mean he can't pull him and work with him for awhile? I just don't see the BS here.....at all. Pie's still at the prospect level, he's not an established vet. You don't see why saying someone is your everyday CF and then not starting them everyday just 3 weeks after making that statement is BS? I've read lots of your posts on this site, you're not dense, so are you just trying to be difficult? Lou knew Pie was a prospect when he made that statement and the obvious implication is that they expect Pie might struggle now and then, but he's going to be the everyday starter anyway. And that's not at all how they handled it. He struggled and was yanked right away. Lou didn't have to come out and say Pie was the everyday CF. But he did and 3 weeks later, Pie started sitting regularly. So his statement is BS.

2005 at AA West Tenn (and the SL is a pitcher's league, unlike the PCL): Against RHP, 142 AB: .324/.362/592 Against LHP, 87 AB: .253/.295/.448 Can't seem to find anything before 2005. Thanks for the info guys. Where do you find MiLB splits? Anyway, I don't think there's likely to be a significant difference between what Pie can put up against LHP and what Pagan can. Pagan's OPS might be higher, but given how few ABs we'd be considering, I don't think the effect of the standings is going to be noticeable. http://www.minorleaguesplits.com/ It can sometimes be a confusing site to navigate, but it has lots of good info. thanks

Didn't take me long to learn that most of what Lou says is complete BS. How so? He was the everyday centerfielder. Then he started to suck terribly. You'd rather Lou play Dusty and keep underperformers in the lineup everyday just because he made some statement weeks ago? Everything is contingent on performance, period. You suck, you sit. Lou's been more consistent on this than just about any manager I've ever seen on the North Side. Eyre, Jones, Pie, Izzy.....all have grabbed bench and hard because they weren't cutting it. I'm so tired of this argument. Lou's been around long enough that he should know that all players, regardless of quality, go through bad stretches. You can't bench every player if he hits a slump. That's stupid. Pie's not in a slump, he's just not good enough yet. There's a difference, in his case. And I couldn't care less how 'tired' you get of an argument. Well, I'm glad your expert evaluation has able to determine how good Pie is at this stage in his career. It's invaluable to be able to discern the difference between a guy that's not ready and a guy that's going through the adjustment that nearly every guy does when he first hits the majors. With that type of talent, you should consider joining a ML team. As for the statement - why come out and say a player is going to be an everyday CF (or whatever) when you know you're going to yank them if they're not good right away. Has Lou never managed a rookie? Does he really think every good player to ever play was great from day 1 and never looked back? Not to mention that the general practice of moving guys in/out of the lineup trying to chase the hot streak is a stupid way to manage. It doesn't take rocket science to see he needs more development. Why do you care how Lou chooses to move along that development? You are basically calling him an idiot because he's not developing Pie the way you want him to. Just because he doesn't play him every day, right here & right now, doesn't mean squat as to whether or not he'll be a failure. Maybe he just needs more off the field instruction, which is what is happening. Who are you to say that's the death knell for the kid? As for his statement, as I said it was true at the time. I'm not sure why you keep trying to suggest it was a lie or hypocrisy just because he didn't enslave himself to it for the entire season. No, I'm not blasting Lou for not doing it my way. I'm blasting Lou b/c he's playing Pie like he plays everyone he doesn't consider a stud (Soriano, ARam, Lee) - chase the hot streak. Pie struggled over those first 2 weeks and he quickly hit the bench regularly. Replaced by Pagan and Jones. "Enslave himself to it for the entire season?" Talk about disingenuous. Pie was the everyday CF for about 3 weeks. When you bring your #1 prospect up and tell the media he's going to be your everyday CF, and 3 weeks later sharing time w/ 2 other guys - your statement is BS.

2005 at AA West Tenn (and the SL is a pitcher's league, unlike the PCL): Against RHP, 142 AB: .324/.362/592 Against LHP, 87 AB: .253/.295/.448 Can't seem to find anything before 2005. Thanks for the info guys. Where do you find MiLB splits? Anyway, I don't think there's likely to be a significant difference between what Pie can put up against LHP and what Pagan can. Pagan's OPS might be higher, but given how few ABs we'd be considering, I don't think the effect of the standings is going to be noticeable.

They're not going to agree, their minds are made up. Jacque Jones bad. Period. Bad in Minnesota. Bad when he signed. Bad last year. (Even though he was pretty good, he will always be bad bad bad). Very bad this year. He'll be bad til the end of time, no matter what, forever and ever amen. It is by definition impossible for Jacque Jones to ever do anything good. Wouldn't you agree? =; I'm glad you're going to post w/o reading any of the other comments. It's always nice to have an uninformed generalization of others' opinions. Of course, if you had read the rest of the thread, you'd see that I said he had a great year against RHP in MN and was very good last year against RHP and that his career #s are better than average. But what I said is that doesn't change the fact that he's been terrible this year and it's not like it's the first time - he's had quite a few years of downright bad play. I guess that doesn't really play into your argument that JJ is some sort of victim here or something and that we're all ignoring his greatness. Not that you're going to read this post anyway.

Didn't take me long to learn that most of what Lou says is complete BS. How so? He was the everyday centerfielder. Then he started to suck terribly. You'd rather Lou play Dusty and keep underperformers in the lineup everyday just because he made some statement weeks ago? Everything is contingent on performance, period. You suck, you sit. Lou's been more consistent on this than just about any manager I've ever seen on the North Side. Eyre, Jones, Pie, Izzy.....all have grabbed bench and hard because they weren't cutting it. I'm so tired of this argument. Lou's been around long enough that he should know that all players, regardless of quality, go through bad stretches. You can't bench every player if he hits a slump. That's stupid. Pie's not in a slump, he's just not good enough yet. There's a difference, in his case. And I couldn't care less how 'tired' you get of an argument. Well, I'm glad your expert evaluation has able to determine how good Pie is at this stage in his career. It's invaluable to be able to discern the difference between a guy that's not ready and a guy that's going through the adjustment that nearly every guy does when he first hits the majors. With that type of talent, you should consider joining a ML team. As for the statement - why come out and say a player is going to be an everyday CF (or whatever) when you know you're going to yank them if they're not good right away. Has Lou never managed a rookie? Does he really think every good player to ever play was great from day 1 and never looked back? Not to mention that the general practice of moving guys in/out of the lineup trying to chase the hot streak is a stupid way to manage.

Nope - pretty much sucks against everyone. I edited my post to include how awful Pie is against lefties in the discussion. FYI. Really b/c now if I want to dispute that, I have to jump back 2 posts. Why didn't you just make a new post w/ those stats? Why do you care? Seriously. I had already made the edit by the time I saw your reply. Big deal. I was telling you out of courtesy. b/c if you're having a discussion/argument, it's annoying to go back to edited posts rather than have the other side reply with a new post. Not a big deal.

It's certainly not stupid to sit Pie for Pagan against lefties. Really? Pagan has a .742 OPS against LHP this year, right? and .596 against LHP last year, right? Pie may not match those #s, but frankly I don't care. In 50 ABs, Pagan has a .281 OBP against LHP. Whatever Pie's #s are, the difference between them and Pagan's #s is less significant than getting our best position prospect regular ABs. I don't want Pie to be in a platoon, I want him to play every day and see all pitchers and learn to hit them. If Lou isn't prepared to do that, we need to send him to AAA (which is probably dumb b/c our CFs are so bad, that we might as well let Pie learn at this level and take advantage of his great defense). So, to reiterate, playing Jones or Pagan over Pie is just stupid. Pagan is the option that's really stupid. You could make a case that Jones has to play to boost his trade value but Pagan is just a low-ceiling prospect with no trade value. Having Pie lose starts to Pagan is indefensible. I think I could make a pretty good case that sitting a player with a .277 OPS against lefties is good for the team. We are in a race for the playoffs after all. Really? B/c it's 32 ABs, so I'd like to hear this "good case" you're going to build for sitting our #1 prospect, who is 22, for a non-prospect like Pagan, who hits LHP terribly. You realize if Pie goes 3/4 with 3 singles against a LHP in his next game, his OPS jumps like 150 points? Maybe Pie can't hit LHP and never has been able to in his career (I don't know what his MiLB splits are), but again - you're not replacing him with a great hitter. It's hard to say what the difference b/t Pagan and Pie is against LHP b/c you don't really have enough of a sample at the ML level to know how good Pie is. But again, if the choice is Pie against all pitchers, learning to hit, and getting regular ABs, or sitting him in favor of crap like Pagan, he should play every day. I don't really think Pie is going to OPS .277 against LHP if he faced them regularly, so whatever the difference is between Pagan and Pie, the 3 ABs they're going to get at the bottom of the order isn't going to make a lot of difference in our playoff chase. But please, make your "good case" - I'm all ears.

Nope - pretty much sucks against everyone. I edited my post to include how awful Pie is against lefties in the discussion. FYI. Really b/c now if I want to dispute that, I have to jump back 2 posts. Why didn't you just make a new post w/ those stats?

Nope - pretty much sucks against everyone.

If my econ memory serves, I'm not sure the concept of "sunk cost" really applies. But I get your point. But I didn't say JJ needed to raise his OPS for the year up to .825, I said he'd have to play at an OPS level 200 points higher than his current OPS against RHP (roughly .634). To raise his OPS for the year up to his career average, he'd have to play about 400 OPS points higher than he's currently playing. Possible, but certainly not likely (or even reasonable to expect).

It's certainly not stupid to sit Pie for Pagan against lefties. Really? Pagan has a .742 OPS against LHP this year, right? and .596 against LHP last year, right? Pie may not match those #s, but frankly I don't care. In 50 ABs, Pagan has a .281 OBP against LHP. Whatever Pie's #s are, the difference between them and Pagan's #s is less significant than getting our best position prospect regular ABs. I don't want Pie to be in a platoon, I want him to play every day and see all pitchers and learn to hit them. If Lou isn't prepared to do that, we need to send him to AAA (which is probably dumb b/c our CFs are so bad, that we might as well let Pie learn at this level and take advantage of his great defense). So, to reiterate, playing Jones or Pagan over Pie is just stupid.

Jones's career #s against RHP are better than average (he had 1 great year and a really good year last year) - I'll give you that. That said, it's not really fair to compare all those guys' current year performances to Jones's career (which includes his peak, which he is clearly past) and on top of that, taking out all his ABs against LHP. Are you really telling me you'd rather have Jones, or Jones in a platoon with Pagan, over any of the guys you listed above? Other than Crisp, who would probably struggle to catch a ball that he himself tossed into the air, I'd take all of those players over Jones (and I'd probably even take Crisp). Jones is not a good player. He's had some good years against RHP in the past (he's also been quite bad against all pitchers in some years, not just this year). In '05 he had a .814 OPS against RHP (.775 in '04; .834 in '03). Given that he's started terribly this year, are we thinking it's more likely that he'll suddenly regain the .886 OPS form or closer to the .775 OPS form? Yes, if you could guarantee, or even if it were a safe bet that Jones would put up an .825-ish OPS against RHP in CF this year (though let's be honest, JJ's a terrible CF), I'd say JJ in a platoon would probably be our best option. But I'm not convinced you're going to get anywhere near an .825 OPS out of Jones this year, against any pitchers. 185 ABs isn't a great sample size, but you're asking for a 200-point jump in OPS in the 2nd half. I don't think my characterization was disingenuous or wrong.

Didn't take me long to learn that most of what Lou says is complete BS. How so? He was the everyday centerfielder. Then he started to suck terribly. You'd rather Lou play Dusty and keep underperformers in the lineup everyday just because he made some statement weeks ago? Everything is contingent on performance, period. You suck, you sit. Lou's been more consistent on this than just about any manager I've ever seen on the North Side. Eyre, Jones, Pie, Izzy.....all have grabbed bench and hard because they weren't cutting it. I'm so tired of this argument. Lou's been around long enough that he should know that all players, regardless of quality, go through bad stretches. You can't bench every player if he hits a slump. That's stupid.

No, you don't have to go with Lou. It's not like he's replacing Pie with Beltran. He's giving Jones, a known quantity of suck, more playing time, rather than letting a young player get experience. At least when Murton was sent down for a veteran, the veteran was giving roughly league-average production (which is still a stupid move, but whatever). If you're not going to play Pie b/c you're moving Soriano back to CF or b/c you're bringing in a good CF to make a run - great. To sit him for Jones and/or Pagan is just stupid.

Another Murton excuse on this site? No way... This isn't little Johnny trying to make the varsity roster so let's please do away with the pressure argument. This is professional sports....I would sure hope there's pressure. Murton was given every opportunity to be a starting corner outfielder and he didn't produce. If you don't produce, it's Lou's job to insert someone else who will - which is exactly what he is trying to find. Murton is a light hitting corner outfielder with a poor arm, average speed and a major defensive liability every time he steps on the field. Just because he knows how to take a pitch and has "upside" he should be given the benefit of the doubt and let him play out of this prolonged slump? I thought the fans wanted this team to win now?? It's one or the other. http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/murtoma01.shtml Don't know where to begin. Either do I. He had a nice year last year for a team going nowhere under a lame duck manager. He is a horrible defender anywhere you put him and hasn't hit at all this year. Should Lou overlook those two glaring facts and continue to put him in the lineup because he has upside? He is exactly where he should be right now....AAA. I'd like to see the Cubs package him with Marshall and see what they can get. So 455 ABs as a 24-year-old, posting better than league-average numbers, doesn't count for anything b/c the team sucked as the manager was a "lame duck." But the sporadic ABs he had scattered over 2 months this year have convinced you that he should be benched in favor of a 35-year-old with an injury history and 0 power? Murton's exactly the kind of player good teams use to be successful - young, cheap, better than average production. Some grow to be studs, some don't, but as long as you get solid production out of them, you can concentrate you limited funds on more glaring needs. I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

Are you just bored?

I say yes.

Didn't take me long to learn that most of what Lou says is complete BS.

The confusion confuses me. Dusty has said some stupid things, but this one is dead-on.

Commish review is far superior to league votes, but obviously you can't do that in public leagues.

We have to DFA Eyre. Dempster Wood Howry Marmol Weurtz Ohman Guzman If Demp or Howry are traded, add in Petrick. Wow is that an amazing bullpen. That's only one left-hander. Doesn't matter what hand they throw with. What matters is if they can get guys out.

Steroids aren't stimulants. And stimulants aren't steroids. yeah - it's greenies, not roids. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2927670