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I agree. Maybe nothing has changed from last year and he's really a AAAA player, but I think he's earned 1 more chance (and I don't mean a handful of sporadic ABs or a "if you suck for 2 weeks, you're out" chance). I mean call him up and given him the starting job basically every day for 1-2 months. If he's terrible, you know what you have (nothing). If he's average, you know that you have a cheap SS that won't kill you. If he's good - that's one less hole we have to fill. I guess part of the reason I'd like to do that now, rather than wait for DeRosa and/or Fontenot to cool down a lot, is if he's up now we can get a month of ABs before the trade deadline. If the Cubs can get on a little hot streak and have a shot at the WC by 7/31, I'd like to know if we should look to add a SS or whether we can live with Ronny. If we wait 2-3 more weeks, we will know no more at the trade deadline about our SS position than we do now (I don't think Fontenot is the answer there - if he can be a 2B, great, but I'd prefer to give the SS role to Ronny from a defensive standpoint).

Even if you aren't confident, I think you have to keep giving DeRosa a shot. He's cooled off, but he's still getting on base. ... Edit to add: I'm in no way saying Cedeno is that source of pop. If Lee, ARam and Floyd hit 3, 4, 5, maybe DeRosa is the only source of any power and has to hit 6th. Again, I'm not that concerned about who plays 2B this year - I don't see that choice impacting our win total a great deal. But if we can give Cedeno 3 months to see if he can be a decent SS at this level, and the cost is ABs for 2 of Theriot, Fontenot or DeRosa...meh. How do you feel about Paul McCartney as a source of pop?? When he was a Beatle, I was a big fan. Now - not so much.

Even if you aren't confident, I think you have to keep giving DeRosa a shot. He's cooled off, but he's still getting on base. Yes he is and I'm never one to abandon a good source of OBP. But I'd like to see if Cedeno can actually play the SS position at the ML level and not be a total 0 with the bat. And Fontenot has played well enough to get a long look at 2B. But I guess I don't really care which of those two (Fontenot and DeRosa) gets the starts - I'm less concerned about finding a decent 2B than SS. The only point I'd make about DeRosa's OBP is he's hitting in front of guys like Pagan, Hill, Bowen, Pie and the pitcher in most of his ABs. I'm not terribly surprised that he's finding it pretty easy to patiently wait for a decent pitch and walk if he doesn't get one. His AVG is still solid at .275 and it's not like he has a huge walk total, but it's not a huge leap of faith to think either Theriot or Fontenot can match that OBP at 2B. And, I guess I'd like some pop at the 5/6 spot where he's been hitting. While his OBP has held pretty firm in the .340-.360 range most of the year, his SLG has been in a slow steady decline since the end of April. It's not like he has no power at all, but his XBH appear to fewer and farther between as the season goes on (he has 4 total in June: 3 doubles, 1 HR). He's a fine player and his overall #s still look pretty good, but I don't think he's a guy we have to have in the lineup. If Fontenot can basically match the .350 OBP and hit in the 2 spot, I'd call up Cedeno just to see if we can get more than a .600 OPS out of the SS position without trading for one. Edit to add: I'm in no way saying Cedeno is that source of pop. If Lee, ARam and Floyd hit 3, 4, 5, maybe DeRosa is the only source of any power and has to hit 6th. Again, I'm not that concerned about who plays 2B this year - I don't see that choice impacting our win total a great deal. But if we can give Cedeno 3 months to see if he can be a decent SS at this level, and the cost is ABs for 2 of Theriot, Fontenot or DeRosa...meh. Ball, Strike (looking), Ball, M DeRosa homered to left center, D Lee and C Floyd scored In your face! :D That's why I posted a few minutes ago - DeRosa must have read my post before the game and got pissed. Although, Fontenot had a HR of his own today, so he's not that far behind in the power department...

I realize DeRosa (2B and 3-run HR today) is doing is best to make me look like an idiot for saying his SLG is trending down. Despite today's performance, I still think we should bring up Cedeno for Theriot and play either Fontenot or DeRosa (or a combo) at 2B.

Certainly, but why not let Fontenot play their for now and see what he can do? I edited my post a bit while you were posting this, but in reply I'd say: b/c Cedeno is tearing up AAA. He essentially tore up AAA the last time he was there (05). He really has nothing left to prove there. And maybe not having Dusty and his staff around will help him (or maybe he fixed what was broken this time around). Whatever the case, I'd like to give him some real time at the ML level to see if he can do anything here (he is still only 24). If he's a AAAA player, so be it. But we're not going to really know that unless he's up here getting ML ABs. And no other team is either, so I wouldn't think his trade value would be that high (and it's not like we'd be trading from a position of depth). My preference would be to have Cedeno and Fontenot at SS and 2B respectively. DeRosa has been good, but not so good that you just have to play him. And frankly, if we can trade him and get decent value - go for it - let Theriot be supersub. If DeRosa was absolutely crushing the ball, I'd say you have to keep him in the lineup - so you can only take a look at Cedeno or Fontenot (not both). But DeRosa's merely pretty good right now. If it's not likely to cost you a ton of runs to put him in a reserve role and call up a true SS that's owning AAA, I don't see how you don't make that move (which means sending Theriot down and getting rid of Izturis by whatever means necessary).

Even if you aren't confident, I think you have to keep giving DeRosa a shot. He's cooled off, but he's still getting on base. Yes he is and I'm never one to abandon a good source of OBP. But I'd like to see if Cedeno can actually play the SS position at the ML level and not be a total 0 with the bat. And Fontenot has played well enough to get a long look at 2B. But I guess I don't really care which of those two (Fontenot and DeRosa) gets the starts - I'm less concerned about finding a decent 2B than SS. The only point I'd make about DeRosa's OBP is he's hitting in front of guys like Pagan, Hill, Bowen, Pie and the pitcher in most of his ABs. I'm not terribly surprised that he's finding it pretty easy to patiently wait for a decent pitch and walk if he doesn't get one. His AVG is still solid at .275 and it's not like he has a huge walk total, but it's not a huge leap of faith to think either Theriot or Fontenot can match that OBP at 2B. And, I guess I'd like some pop at the 5/6 spot where he's been hitting. While his OBP has held pretty firm in the .340-.360 range most of the year, his SLG has been in a slow steady decline since the end of April. It's not like he has no power at all, but his XBH appear to fewer and farther between as the season goes on (he has 4 total in June: 3 doubles, 1 HR). He's a fine player and his overall #s still look pretty good, but I don't think he's a guy we have to have in the lineup. If Fontenot can basically match the .350 OBP and hit in the 2 spot, I'd call up Cedeno just to see if we can get more than a .600 OPS out of the SS position without trading for one. Edit to add: I'm in no way saying Cedeno is that source of pop. If Lee, ARam and Floyd hit 3, 4, 5, maybe DeRosa is the only source of any power and has to hit 6th. Again, I'm not that concerned about who plays 2B this year - I don't see that choice impacting our win total a great deal. But if we can give Cedeno 3 months to see if he can be a decent SS at this level, and the cost is ABs for 2 of Theriot, Fontenot or DeRosa...meh.

I'd call him up. I like the idea of Cedeno and Fontenot up the middle with DeRosa playing spot duty. I'm just not confident DeRosa can continue putting up starter-worthy #s, I guess. BTW - why is it that our log-jams are always Cedeno, Fontenot, Theriot or JJ and Floyd. Just once, I'd like to have a "we have Jeter and ARod that both play SS? Whatever will we do?" log-jam.

I wish I hadn't already voted. I relied on raisin's report and cited him in another thread. So he made me look like an idiot too (admittedly, frequently an easy thing to do). Curse you, raisin.

I like Ryan, but there are worse things that the team could do. I'd like Hendry to get a deal done already, but this isn't tragic.

They talked to Hendry this morning and he said "Theriot will not be sent back to the minors." Theriot isn't going anywhere. According to Raisin, the Score just reported that Theriot was sent down. http://www.northsidebaseball.com/PremiumForum/viewtopic.php?t=41852

Were you in jail or otherwise unable to come in contact with a radio, CDs, etc? Otherwise 7 years is a joke.

Well, in response to the veto I offered Bondy, Paps, and Swisher for Holliday & Roberts. That went through yesterday. The other guy promptly dropped Swisher.

I, for one, am thrilled that no one took my trade offers when I was offering him for pennies on the dollar last month.

MLB.com has 37 for Buehrle and 31 for Zambrano for what it's worth.... So does Y!

He's had several starts this year when he's looked bad and thrown a lot of pitches, so I guess you take what you can get.

jinxed him

Can a pitcher be the one to click? If so, I take Z.

Yeah...that didn't take long... And they are trying to say..."This could have an effect on Zambrano..." Really? Not getting to face Erstrad is going to have that much of an effect on Z? Please. To the extent that Terrero's .380 OBP makes him a more difficult out than Erstad's .311, I agree with them.

I gave Barrett partial blame from the outset. Z started the argument, Barrett chose to escalate, and they both chose to get physical at the same time. I don't recall Barrett escalating anything. He gestured towards DeRosa I believe it was to ask his opinion on something after Z bitched him out and then Z slugged him. Not even close. The first physical contact was each player grabbing at each other. Right before it happened Z was backing up and Barrett was moving toward him. The way the papers described it, Barrett went toward Z not to punch him, but to try to settle things down. And when Z got sent to the showers by Lou, Barrett (again, according to the Herald, I believe) went down to try to apologize or mend fences or whatever and Z punched him twice. The physical aspects of that fight in no way fall on Barrett's shoulders.

Really? How many games can you lose if you have perfect pitching and defense? (A: None) Hitting is not, especially for a Catcher, a players primary function. if you have perfect offense no one will ever get out and the game will never end and you will never lose beat me by mere seconds...

Really? How many games can you lose if you have perfect pitching and defense? (A: None) Hitting is not, especially for a Catcher, a players primary function. What's "perfect pitching a defense?" 27 strikeouts and no hits or walks? Your pitcher pitching a perfect game and the team not having any errors? How many games can you lose if none of your batters ever records an out? (A: None, I suppose, since the first inning would last forever).

didn't this happen like 2 days ago?

yeah, i was gonna say, losing koyie hill should be at the bottom of the cubs concerns. With the sudden influx of young catching depth, concerns about losing Koyie Hill should be completely non-existent. Worst case scenario if you lose him is you still have Bowen and Soto for the rest of the year. You have Blanco still under contract through 2008. Donaldson just signed. Fox is not going to stick as a starting big league catcher, but he provides emergency type depth at the position. Not to mention Wiet...oh wait

Hey guys - just looking for your input on this. I'm in a Y! public roto league. I'm up on my max IP by quite a bit and looking for some help in power and steals (I'm in first in the league by a fair amount and there are 4 other teams within striking distance - all of them are within 5 points of each other). I negotiated the following trade with 1 of the 4 teams that has been floating between 2nd and 5th in the league: Give: Sheets and Papelbon Get: Matt Holliday and Brian Roberts The guy needs ERA and WHIP (to some extent Ws). Like I said, I need power and to a lesser extent SB. The trade was vetoed by the league. I realize Holliday is easily the best player in that deal. However, the guy has other good OFs and he's playing Kaz Matsui over Roberts (so he's not losing much, if anything, on the 2B part of the deal). I actually have Kendrick (and Upton on the DL), so Roberts gives me more steals, but isn't a huge improvement for me. And I have Swisher, Willits, Markakis, and D Young in the OF. Holliday would surely be my best OF, but I'm not playing a bunch of duds. I hate league votes on trades anyway, but I think this is complete BS. I think several guys voted against it b/c they just don't want me to be able to improve my team, rather than b/c it's unfair. Am I way off base?

I like Marshall, but I love Markakis. Not sure Baltimore is anxious to rid themselves of him though.