Tracer Bullet

while we're at it, let's also shift about a dozen of Murton's strikeouts to triples Not to specifically call you out, but I hate when people do this. And what I mean is that when one poster (The Dude in this instance) makes a very good, lengthy post, and then someone else takes a tiny portion of it and says something smartassed. Why don't you just respond to the actual post? Seriously? The Dude says you can equate 2 guys by taking 12-18 doubles from one and making them HRs. In 2800 ABs in the minors and majors, Theriot has 12 total HRs. I think Bob Sanders' response was deserved. How would you suggest responding to "I'm going to create a fiction that supports my point and ignores reality...BAM. As you can see, I'm right." The way I took it was that considering how much support Murton gets here compared to the abuse Theriot takes they are not that far off from each other in production. I like Murton, but I think he either needs to learn to play off the bench or start developing more power, otherwise it is going to be hard for him to find ana regular job in the big leagues. If he was a middle infielder he probably would get some opportunities, but as a corner outfielder that is at best average defensively he would need to find a team with a lot of production other places in the line up to make up for his lack of slugging as a left fielder. As for trading him because it is "best" for him, meh. Keep him around as insurance in AAA unless someone blows the Cubs away with an offer or they can use him as a key component in a multi player deal. Insurance against what? Soriano, Fukudome, Johnson, and DeRosa hitting the DL at the same time? The Cubs made it clear when they didn't bring him up first and then never started him when they brought him up that he's not the insurance plan we thought he was. Sitting him on the bench in the majors and having him go 0/1 every few days in PH opportunities isn't good for anyone.

Not with Lou's quick trigger and the fact Thomas was pissy about rotting on the bench. Yeah. If Thomas would accept being the power hitting PH on our bench and Lou would use him correctly, he would be very useful. Would be great to replace Murton, who's a terrible PH and won't ever start, with a guy that Thomas. But Thomas isn't willing to give up the full-time DH role yet. Funny to me that he'd rather be a starter on a team like Oakland than a reserve for a team with a better chance of winning a title this year (not necessarily us, I'm sure other teams would have offered him that role).

FWIW, Yahoo has Lou saying he doesn't think Soriano will have a rehab stint in the minors.

while we're at it, let's also shift about a dozen of Murton's strikeouts to triples Not to specifically call you out, but I hate when people do this. And what I mean is that when one poster (The Dude in this instance) makes a very good, lengthy post, and then someone else takes a tiny portion of it and says something smartassed. Why don't you just respond to the actual post? Seriously? The Dude says you can equate 2 guys by taking 12-18 doubles from one and making them HRs. In 2800 ABs in the minors and majors, Theriot has 12 total HRs. I think Bob Sanders' response was deserved. How would you suggest responding to "I'm going to create a fiction that supports my point and ignores reality...BAM. As you can see, I'm right."

You know what I love? When you try to trade, for example, your 3rd first basemen b/c someone really needs a 1B and you really need a SS (b/c, e.g., Tulo sucks to start the year) and the guy tells you he has no interest in the player you offered. So you end up having to drop him b/c he's useless for your team, no one will give anything up for him, and you need the upgrade somewhere else. Then, lo and behold, the guy who "had no interest" claims him off waivers.

Was that after his outing last night where he gave up 3 times as many ER as he got outs?

I don't think so, unless you are a fantasy owner. Aside from one season, he never stole bases with great efficiency, and his OBP isn't really high enough to make it an issue anyway. He is still fast enough to leg out a lot of doubles, and his XBH are his main asset. If his bat speed goes, that's an issue. I'm much more concerned with what it does to his defense. Great range in left was a major part of his value. He never ever ever had great range in left. Despite his speed, he gets terrible reads on balls out there But great speed can help recover from bad jumps (not negate it, but it helps). Less speed and bad jumps = worse defense.

it's not really about judging talent, it's about judging production. Looking at just ERA after four or five starts is going to give you so incomplete a picture that it's basically useless. You wouldn't look at a guy's OPS after five games and say "well, that tells us all we need to know." Hill hasn't given up a ton of runs, but with as many baserunners as he's allowing, it's by the grace of kent that he hasn't. I really think that the Cubs are worried about Hill's confidence, rightly or wrongly. They're pulling him after 5 innings or 80 pitches in games where he may not have pitched well but hasn't allowed a lot of runs, they're skipping him in a tough matchup. I think they're convinced that his mechanical issues are confidence based and they are going to do their damnedest to keep him from getting smacked around. Nail, meet hammer.

Seriously. Ryan Theriot hit a single yesterday. I want you to find me a quote from anyone that says that Ryan Theriot will never hit a single. I'll wait. Take all the time you need. Oh? Nobody has said that? Okay then. I just brought it up because the error and the "not getting the run in from third" was brought up by the angry, torch-and-pitchfork-wielding cedeno crowd. It was brought up b/c he screwed up. The same reason people were ragging on ARam today for some bad ABs. They were probably pretty happy yesterday when he hit the HR, but lots of people were ragging on ARam a few innings earlier for the bad AB. Many fans are "what have you done for me lately." Problem for Ryan is he has a lot of bad days. BTW - Colin Wyers is my new favorite poster. And not just b/c we share an animosity towards Theriot starting at SS.

If Thomas starts slugging again I can definitely see the A's putting Cust or Sweeney on the market or Thomas and basically get a decent prospect or two for free. and there it is. You pay him the minimum. If he sucks, you can keep him or cut him. If he starts slugging and someone calls coming in July, you paid a total of maybe $200k and trade him for a prospect or two. Makes sense to me.

I'm skeptical. I do not like what Soriano brings to the table, and he doesn't get on base enough for me. I hope Lou finds his balls and banishes him to be the best 5-7 hitter in the MLB. I agree. Getting a guy who will hit you 30-40 HR's a year less AB's is exactly what this team needs. Better than giving more to a guy who makes an out around 67% of the time he comes up. Soriano has his warts but let's not try and pretend he's not a very valuable player. Guy put up a 42.1 VORP last year and a 7.6 WARP. Advocating that he get fewer at bats is more than a little silly. So you think he should get the most ABs of anyone on the team? Where are you getting that from? I'm just saying limiting his at bats is stupid. The argument started with the suggestion that Soriano be moved from the top spot to lower in the order. You said "advocating that he get fewer at bats is more than a little silly." In the top spot, he'll get the most ABs. Anywhere else, he'll get fewer than he otherwise would. You can connect the logical dots yourself, I think.

If soriano has to lead off, that would be ideal. That said, I'd prefer... Johnson Fukudome Lee Ramirez Soto Soriano Derosa Cedeno/Theriot Really? I'd rather play Pie and hit him 7th.

I'm skeptical. I do not like what Soriano brings to the table, and he doesn't get on base enough for me. I hope Lou finds his balls and banishes him to be the best 5-7 hitter in the MLB. I agree. Getting a guy who will hit you 30-40 HR's a year less AB's is exactly what this team needs. Better than giving more to a guy who makes an out around 67% of the time he comes up. Soriano has his warts but let's not try and pretend he's not a very valuable player. Guy put up a 42.1 VORP last year and a 7.6 WARP. Advocating that he get fewer at bats is more than a little silly. So you think he should get the most ABs of anyone on the team?

No Cedeno. Soto batting 7th. I hate Lou.

Because the Brewers hammer lefties. I wasn't arguing the merits of the decision. You suggested they just pushed his start back 1 day to get Z to face the Brewers and I was pointing out that wasn't true.

I think you're wrong. link ETA: Hill doesn't pitch before Z in the rotation. He pitches before Marquis. They want Dempster and Z to pitch on regular rest, so they have to skip either Hill or Marquis. They picked Hill.

pot-kettle

Not really. You could skip either Hill or Marquis and Dempster and Z would start on regular rest and pitch against Mil. So Lou decided he'd rather skip Hill than skip Marquis.

I love reading stuff like this. Seems like every year that's at least a handful of trade offers I make that someone rejects and says "that's stupid" and within a month I'm thanking my lucky stars that they rejected it b/c either the guy I was seeking tanked or the guy I offered took off (or rebounded, as the case may be).

your proposed lineup doesn't jive with your first sentence.

I think Hendry was trying to trade him but maybe his asking price was too high. Murton will be a goner soon. Possible. Rumors that he was offered for a top pitching prospect (from the Rays?), but also rumored to be offered for Byrd. Seems like opposite ends of the spectrum to me. Murton was available, but JH wasn't actively shopping him. Or maybe the GMs are hip to Jim's routine of trading certain guys for peanuts and are just waiting for Jim to bottom out.

No, Soriano is not always injured. He had one trip to the DL last year and once this year, and that's it for his career. That is not "always injured." Overpriced, that one I'll give you. A - it was pretty clear from the context of my post (quoting the other poster) that I was borrowing his language to make a point. Hyperbole was intentional. B - That said, Soriano missed about 30 games last year and injured himself by hopping in the OF. He's 32 and seems to be less than 100% a fair amount. He's not injured as frequently as Drew, but no one's mistaking him for Cal Ripken Jr at this point either.

I'm a huge fan or Murton, but they need to send him to Iowa and hopefully have him put up another .900 OPS so they can trade him for something. He's a terrible PH and Lou clearly has no intention of playing him as anything else. I'd hope they could trade him to a team that he could start in LF, but at this point, anywhere is better than the Cubs (for the team and Matt). I think they should have traded him in the off season when he was coming off his 2nd straight 2nd-half of great play and he had some trade value. JH said he was trying to trade him, but I don't think that's true. I think he wanted to get his 4th OF/platoon partner (RJ) before he traded Murton. Since that took all off season, Murton's still here and the trade partners are greatly reduced.

Fukudome DeRosa Lee Ramirez Soto Soriano Pie Cedeno

It is not, in fact, just as likely for a 28-year-old player to have a breakout season as it is for a 25-year-old. Now you're absolutely right about the sample sizes involved here being pretty meaningless, but the fact of the matter is that Cedeno has a higher ceiling; it's simply not a NEW fact. First of all, welcome to the Board. Now that you're here, you not be aware of this, but I've been a long time supporter of Cedeno. I wanted him to start over Theriot all offseason. However, with Soriano out, why is it verboten to play both Cedeno and Theriot? It's not. In fact, it's almost certainly the best move for the team given Murton's struggles. I just don't think there's any reason to pitch a fit until that decision is forced on us. Age 28 seasons are typically among the peak years for a player -- Theriot could certainly be having a break-out season. I'd suggest that a 28 year old having a great season after a sub-par Age 27 season isn't unheard of. Given that 25 is pre-peak and 28 is among the peak years, I believe it is more likely for a 28 year-old than a 25 year-old to have a break-out season. I could be wrong, of course, but that's my recollection. I absolutely agree that Cedeno has higher ceiling. No question about it (in my mind). And, actually, it is Ronny's ceiling and his likely progression as a player making him more important, long-term, to the Cubs than Theriot. Even though Ryan and Ronny are providing roughly similar production, Cedeno is likely to improve and become a better player while Theriot is arguably at his peak. All that said, the sample sizes are still too small to draw any meaningful conclusions. Seems highly unlikely that a player with Theriot's background in the minors and majors would ever have a breakout season, let alone at age 28. Seems much more likely that a guy that sucked in the majors at age 23, but was great in AAA at ages 22 and 24 would breakout at age 25. Also seems like Cedeno's "breakout" (or peak) would be something like an .800-.850 OPS, whereas Theriot's would be about 100 OPS points lower.