illiniguy

Well we know we are a terrible team and that they are supposed to be a good team. Yet everytime we have played them they have barely beaten us. We also played Duke, they had no such problem taking us to the woodshed. They lose Gordon and White next year. In the next three years we add the most talent we have ever had, IU could be on probabtion. Are you still failing to see why we think we will be better going forward?

No McCamey did not. Just another false truth told by ESPN last night. Goes along with Gordon opening up his recruting. By opening up they mean we found out when he showed up at IU's MM. McCamey was waiting for us to offer the whole time. He has said in interviews we are his dream school.

Good lord, can Shaun Pruitt just get his diploma now? Oh and to the poster saying that what Eric does was stupid and we should just beat them on the court. Are you really that dense? You really believe poor Eric was a victim who didn't know how to react? Anyone with half a brain knows they railroaded our program. He is a hell of a player. I wish he was on our team. But, I am very glad his old man isn't associated with our university. That guy is a clown.

IU is better, but I honestly expect Illinois to win. IU hasn't played well of late, especially on the road, and Illinois will be highly motivated. Plus, seeing as this is a Big Ten game, I expect Gordon to have two fouls during warmups. yeah, i expect a loss for the reasons you stated, namely that they're not playing well recently. regardless of fouls, i don't expect a lot from Gordon tonight. he is human and i think he'll be affected by the situation and the crowd. Gordon is a pro. I expect him to tune it out. I bet he plays well and you win by 10 plus. We are terrible. i guess we'll find out. honestly, more than the gordon situation, i'm worried about how IU will play defensively against Randle and Pruit. DJ can't guard both of them. Foul them. the two of them shoot a combined 57% from the free throw line. In a way I am almost gald I am playing basketball tonight instead of watching this game. It should mean something, but we are so damn bad I have a hard time watching us play. Here is a breakdown of what will happen. Illinois will come out hot. Build up a 10 point lead. In spite of Chester Frazier starting over the much more talented Demetri McCamey. Randle will pick up his third foul a good 45 ft. from the basket with 10 minutes left in the half. IU will get within 5 by halftime. Illinois will go 10 minutes without a field goal. IU will take the lead. Weber will call timeout and draw up a play on his face with his dry erase marker. IU will push lead to 8. Illinois will start making a couple threes, once we finally get McCamey, Tisdale, and Meachum in together. Illinois gets within 2. Illinois misses a ton of freethrows. IU makes there free throws. IU wins by 10. Illiniguy contemplates driving to Champaign to kill Bruce Weber.

IU is better, but I honestly expect Illinois to win. IU hasn't played well of late, especially on the road, and Illinois will be highly motivated. Plus, seeing as this is a Big Ten game, I expect Gordon to have two fouls during warmups. yeah, i expect a loss for the reasons you stated, namely that they're not playing well recently. regardless of fouls, i don't expect a lot from Gordon tonight. he is human and i think he'll be affected by the situation and the crowd. Gordon is a pro. I expect him to tune it out. I bet he plays well and you win by 10 plus. We are terrible.

The heat must be having a field day. Yeah because without Steve Nash Shawn Marion is really good, what with his awesome moves and shot... Oh wait he is good as a result of running and jumping and playing with the best point guard in the NBA. Wait, you're saying Marion's jumpshot isn't textbook? I am saying they can plug anybody that is an athelte into that system and they will put up similar, if not better numbers than Shawn Marion has. hell grant Hill is still a better player than him. After his 4 million operations. Steve Nash came to the Suns for the 04-05 season. Shawn Marion had four full years before that with the Suns (excluding his rookie year) and has had three full years plus this year with Nash. Before Nash: 19.2 ppg and 9.9 rpg With Nash: 19.0 ppg and 10.8 rpg There's an easy argument that can be made that the increase in rebounds is due to the Suns playing an up tempo style and therefore during Suns games there are going to be more shots, more missed shots and subsequently, more rebounds. Sean Marion was a very good player without Steve Nash and nothing changed when Nash came to the Suns. And you're absolutely crazy if you think Grant Hill, right now, is a better player than Marion. I still like Grant Hill better than Marion. Still. Plus Marion has done nothing but bitch about his role on that team for years. In his mind he should be there best player and number 1 option, in all reality he is easily the third best player on his team. Good riddance, oh and there is a reason all he could fetch in a return right now is a very old Shaquille O'Neal. I just hope the Bulls aren't the team that gives him a big money contract.

The heat must be having a field day. Yeah because without Steve Nash Shawn Marion is really good, what with his awesome moves and shot... Oh wait he is good as a result of running and jumping and playing with the best point guard in the NBA. Wait, you're saying Marion's jumpshot isn't textbook? I am saying they can plug anybody that is an athelte into that system and they will put up similar, if not better numbers than Shawn Marion has. hell grant Hill is still a better player than him. After his 4 million operations.

The heat must be having a field day. Yeah because without Steve Nash Shawn Marion is really good, what with his awesome moves and shot... Oh wait he is good as a result of running and jumping and playing with the best point guard in the NBA.

I think they want him to retire and have that free money on the books next year. Shaq can't try and go much longer than this year. His body won't allow it.

If Baker plays the people who should be playing, yes. But odds of that are small, so their offense will probably be close to the Cards. Plus how much sac bunting will Brandon Phillips and Adam Dunn be doing? Not to mention they will be encouraged to hit, not walk there way aboard.

Does anyone like that clown? How does he keep his job. You ask anyone for the worst referees in college basketball and odds are he is one of the names they are gonna say. As bad as he is, he's still better than Valentine. Another guy who should be gone. Why can't officials understand that they are not the reason the fans are there?

Does anyone like that clown? How does he keep his job. You ask anyone for the worst referees in college basketball and odds are he is one of the names they are gonna say.

Salim Stoudamire got his payback in his last game. :grin: Yeah, I thoroughly enjoyed watching Arizona melt down in Chicago. :) Deron Williams will do that to you. Just ask Francsico Garcia.

Salim Stoudamire got his payback in his last game. :grin:

Plus now KU is right back in the conference race. :roll: Well, we were never out of it since we get a chance for payback in Allen. But now we control our destiny again. Touche

Plus now KU is right back in the conference race. :roll:

Is it not until next year that everyone makes the tourney. If it starts this year, then yes, I'd say the expectations are too low. I don't know how to fix DePaul. It's sad. They may have been better off playing 2nd banana in C-USA rather than go to the Big East, though I understand their reasoning. i don't know either. jerry wainwright isn't the answer, but i don't know what is. it's simply not a job that anyone who is "up and coming" really wants, and i think the athletic department has grown a reputation of not treating their head coaches very well They need to pick up the scraps from the state the next two years. Illinois is done recruiting in the state. That leaves a lot of talent. Anthony Johnson Diamond Taylor Marcus Jordan Chris Colvin Jack Cooley Paul Bunch Jordan Prosser DeAndre McCamey You need to clean up on that talent. Is that McCamey any relation to the one currently playing for Illinois? Yeah it is his younger brother. Many people think he will be better than Demetri. Figured it was. IU likes Jordan Prosser. I figure you will be in on the younger McCamey too, since you weer a finalist for Demetri.

Is it not until next year that everyone makes the tourney. If it starts this year, then yes, I'd say the expectations are too low. I don't know how to fix DePaul. It's sad. They may have been better off playing 2nd banana in C-USA rather than go to the Big East, though I understand their reasoning. i don't know either. jerry wainwright isn't the answer, but i don't know what is. it's simply not a job that anyone who is "up and coming" really wants, and i think the athletic department has grown a reputation of not treating their head coaches very well They need to pick up the scraps from the state the next two years. Illinois is done recruiting in the state. That leaves a lot of talent. Anthony Johnson Diamond Taylor Marcus Jordan Chris Colvin Jack Cooley Paul Bunch Jordan Prosser DeAndre McCamey You need to clean up on that talent. Is that McCamey any relation to the one currently playing for Illinois? Yeah it is his younger brother. Many people think he will be better than Demetri.

I don't think so. The last I heard he said he still might go to Illinois. I don't know if he plans on walking on though.

Is it not until next year that everyone makes the tourney. If it starts this year, then yes, I'd say the expectations are too low. I don't know how to fix DePaul. It's sad. They may have been better off playing 2nd banana in C-USA rather than go to the Big East, though I understand their reasoning. i don't know either. jerry wainwright isn't the answer, but i don't know what is. it's simply not a job that anyone who is "up and coming" really wants, and i think the athletic department has grown a reputation of not treating their head coaches very well They need to pick up the scraps from the state the next two years. Illinois is done recruiting in the state. That leaves a lot of talent. Anthony Johnson Diamond Taylor Marcus Jordan Chris Colvin Jack Cooley Paul Bunch Jordan Prosser DeAndre McCamey You need to clean up on that talent.

Suton is averaging 26.7 minutes, White 31.5. Suton has taken 148 field goals, White 208. So, obviously, there's a discrepancy there as you predicted. But White is also shooting substantially higher from the field .611-.507 and gets to the line much better (88/123 attempts to 35/48). Yes, White plays more and shoots more, but that could be because he's a superior player or because MSU has more depth. I'm unsure how to weight and account for those variables. White has also been much better in the Big Ten play. He's upped his averages to 18.9 and 12.1. He leads the league in offensive and defensive rebounds and is second to Gordon in scoring. He should be Big Ten POY. And, wow, are you right that IU doesn't have any other talented big players. Hopefully, Eli Holman can get there. Remember that White will shoot a higher percentage too because he doesn't step out and shoot the 20 footer like Suton does.

Maybe he was making a reference to the post that claimed IU is as talented as anyone in the country, when in fact they are not. I would venture to say they are not the most talented team in the conference, a very bad one this year. Exactly what I was referencing. Overall, MSU probably has more talent. Outside of Gordon & White, there's nothing special there. If Gordon is actually injured, that makes them even more vulnerable. I don't like Illinois, but I can't wait to see the business EG gets in Champaign next week. That's going to be awesome. FYI: I have no opinion on Indiana basketball in general. I think Bob Knight is/was a great coach and its unfortunate that he wasn't able to finish his career there and have the court/stadium named after him and all of that stuff. I guess a lot of it is his own fault though. Overall, Michigan State has more talent. They have more depth of talent. But this is basketball where one or two players can make a huge difference. IU has, pretty easily, the best two players in the conference. I think that's enough to make a solid argument that IU's the most talented team in the conference. It depends if you're looking for quality or quantity. I think most coaches would take IU's roster over MSU's, OSU's or UW's. Obviously, they're nowhere near the most talented team in the country. Also, you're wrong about IU not having anything besides those Gordon and White. Bassett, Ellis, Crawford and even Ratliff (4-star recruit) and Holman (4-star recruit) have plenty of talent. Lol, MSU's roster is stuffed with talent. I don't think any coach would take your roster over MSUs. You have too many flaws. You have all shooting guards on the perimeter and no power forward. That's IU's flaw. Plenty of talent, but way too much redundancy. The team had 5 good shooting guard/small forward options, but no point guard or power forward. I would agree that IU has more talent, but MSU's talent is in more well rounded places, and that quite possibly makes them the better team. There's no doubt MSU's talent is more well-dispersed and IU lacks a power forward (I don't believe PG has been much of an issue, however). If MSU's roster is better it's because of depth and equal dispersement. I'll use rivals, for what it's worth, because it's easy. IU has two five-star players, two four-star players and five three-star players. MSU has one five-star (Marquise Gray), seven four-star players and three three-star players. Again, clearly, MSU has more talent depth. But IU is very top-heavy, especially considering who MSU's lone five-star player is. I would rather look at it from a matchup standpoint. Neitzel>Your point guard of the week Walton Morgan>Ellis Gray>Mike White Suton From that Neitzel is much better than your points, EJ is much better than their shooting guards, Morgan is a lot better than Ellis, Gray is a lot better than Mike White, and D.J. White is better than Goran Suton. Although I think Suton is closer to D.J. White than many think. I don't think anyone can argue on your arrows. They have the advantage at three spots, but, again, the two IU possesses are pretty substantial. A couple things I'd argue with: First, is Neitzel really their point guard anymore? I think he plays more SG for Walton/Lucas. That duo is likely still better than Bassett/Crawford though you're underrating that pair in my estimation -- both are averaging double figures. Suton, who averages 8.8 points, 8.5 rebounds, 1.1 blocks and is at 1.25 points per shot is close to White, who averages 17.1, 10.6, 1.8 and 1.64? Suton might be "closer than many think" because that's completely nebulous, but he's certainly not very close at this point. Can I get those stats per 40 minutes? White is your first of second option. Suton is like the 3rd or 4th for Michigan State. Suton also has to battle talented big teammates for rebounds. IU doesn't have any other big talented players.

Uh, there's been at least 3 IU fans just in the last page say that IU is a deeply flawed team. How is that arrogant or delusional? I do think IU basketball fans can be very arrogant at times, but that was the wrong time to put that comment in. Most of the posts lately about IU have been anything but arrogant. Maybe he was making a reference to the post that claimed IU is as talented as anyone in the country, when in fact they are not. I would venture to say they are not the most talented team in the conference, a very bad one this year. Exactly what I was referencing. Overall, MSU probably has more talent. Outside of Gordon & White, there's nothing special there. If Gordon is actually injured, that makes them even more vulnerable. I don't like Illinois, but I can't wait to see the business EG gets in Champaign next week. That's going to be awesome. FYI: I have no opinion on Indiana basketball in general. I think Bob Knight is/was a great coach and its unfortunate that he wasn't able to finish his career there and have the court/stadium named after him and all of that stuff. I guess a lot of it is his own fault though. Overall, Michigan State has more talent. They have more depth of talent. But this is basketball where one or two players can make a huge difference. IU has, pretty easily, the best two players in the conference. I think that's enough to make a solid argument that IU's the most talented team in the conference. It depends if you're looking for quality or quantity. I think most coaches would take IU's roster over MSU's, OSU's or UW's. Obviously, they're nowhere near the most talented team in the country. Also, you're wrong about IU not having anything besides those Gordon and White. Bassett, Ellis, Crawford and even Ratliff (4-star recruit) and Holman (4-star recruit) have plenty of talent. Lol, MSU's roster is stuffed with talent. I don't think any coach would take your roster over MSUs. You have too many flaws. You have all shooting guards on the perimeter and no power forward. That's IU's flaw. Plenty of talent, but way too much redundancy. The team had 5 good shooting guard/small forward options, but no point guard or power forward. I would agree that IU has more talent, but MSU's talent is in more well rounded places, and that quite possibly makes them the better team. There's no doubt MSU's talent is more well-dispersed and IU lacks a power forward (I don't believe PG has been much of an issue, however). If MSU's roster is better it's because of depth and equal dispersement. I'll use rivals, for what it's worth, because it's easy. IU has two five-star players, two four-star players and five three-star players. MSU has one five-star (Marquise Gray), seven four-star players and three three-star players. Again, clearly, MSU has more talent depth. But IU is very top-heavy, especially considering who MSU's lone five-star player is. I would rather look at it from a matchup standpoint. Neitzel>Your point guard of the week Walton Morgan>Ellis Gray>Mike White Suton From that Neitzel is much better than your points, EJ is much better than their shooting guards, Morgan is a lot better than Ellis, Gray is a lot better than Mike White, and D.J. White is better than Goran Suton. Although I think Suton is closer to D.J. White than many think.

Uh, there's been at least 3 IU fans just in the last page say that IU is a deeply flawed team. How is that arrogant or delusional? I do think IU basketball fans can be very arrogant at times, but that was the wrong time to put that comment in. Most of the posts lately about IU have been anything but arrogant. Maybe he was making a reference to the post that claimed IU is as talented as anyone in the country, when in fact they are not. I would venture to say they are not the most talented team in the conference, a very bad one this year. Exactly what I was referencing. Overall, MSU probably has more talent. Outside of Gordon & White, there's nothing special there. If Gordon is actually injured, that makes them even more vulnerable. I don't like Illinois, but I can't wait to see the business EG gets in Champaign next week. That's going to be awesome. FYI: I have no opinion on Indiana basketball in general. I think Bob Knight is/was a great coach and its unfortunate that he wasn't able to finish his career there and have the court/stadium named after him and all of that stuff. I guess a lot of it is his own fault though. Overall, Michigan State has more talent. They have more depth of talent. But this is basketball where one or two players can make a huge difference. IU has, pretty easily, the best two players in the conference. I think that's enough to make a solid argument that IU's the most talented team in the conference. It depends if you're looking for quality or quantity. I think most coaches would take IU's roster over MSU's, OSU's or UW's. Obviously, they're nowhere near the most talented team in the country. Also, you're wrong about IU not having anything besides those Gordon and White. Bassett, Ellis, Crawford and even Ratliff (4-star recruit) and Holman (4-star recruit) have plenty of talent. Lol, MSU's roster is stuffed with talent. I don't think any coach would take your roster over MSUs. You have too many flaws. You have all shooting guards on the perimeter and no power forward.

Uh, there's been at least 3 IU fans just in the last page say that IU is a deeply flawed team. How is that arrogant or delusional? I do think IU basketball fans can be very arrogant at times, but that was the wrong time to put that comment in. Most of the posts lately about IU have been anything but arrogant. Maybe he was making a reference to the post that claimed IU is as talented as anyone in the country, when in fact they are not. I would venture to say they are not the most talented team in the conference, a very bad one this year. Exactly what I was referencing. Overall, MSU probably has more talent. Outside of Gordon & White, there's nothing special there. If Gordon is actually injured, that makes them even more vulnerable. I don't like Illinois, but I can't wait to see the business EG gets in Champaign next week. That's going to be awesome. FYI: I have no opinion on Indiana basketball in general. I think Bob Knight is/was a great coach and its unfortunate that he wasn't able to finish his career there and have the court/stadium named after him and all of that stuff. I guess a lot of it is his own fault though. They are already planting the seeds of EJ being hurt. I bet he doesn't make the trip to Champaign.