rawaction

Isn't that what they are supposed to do against a DII team? I don't know how you can take anythign from a game against a DII team. I mean they are a DII team. Not saying U of I won't be good, but they were playing a DII team. Exactly my point :D I know. I was mocking you in return for you mocking me. Illinois brought back it's whole team it should be good defensively. The better be good on D, because they can't score worth a crap.

Isn't that what they are supposed to do against a DII team? I don't know how you can take anythign from a game against a DII team. I mean they are a DII team. Not saying U of I won't be good, but they were playing a DII team.

I really think that will play a part in this. I believe the fish like what Hendry has in the minors pitching wise and I wouldn't be surprised to see a Jones/Murton, Pie and a score of young pitchers going to the Fish. On one hand, I can see a team going "hey, we got a great deal last time we dealt with this team, lets try it again." On the other hand, I could see a team NOT wanting to deal with the same team when multiple prospects are changing teams. Why get 6 Cubs prospects, when you can get 3 Cubs and 3 Dodgers prospects, even if the players are exact equals. Get 6 Cubs, and you run the risk of having the same unsuccessful farm as they have had. Get prospects from a couple different teams and you don't have to suffer completely if 1 of the organizations stink at player development. Also, the Marlins aren't exactly reaping tons of rewards from the Pierre deal. Mitre is an up-and-down 5th starter. Nolasco hasn't been completely healthy. Pinto hasn't been effective.

Exactly. Sure, I would prefer a guy like Drew (if $ were equal), who has the .380 OBP and potential to hit for power, but if he doesn't get his power back and Baldelli never develops more than a below average batting eye, I think Baldelli will be the better player.

Better than Shawn Green or Jeff Geonkins. Too old for my liking though, and only a 1-year deal. Means the Cubs could have a 6th year in 2009 with a new RF.

Alfonso Soriano disagrees. It isn't GREAT production, but it also isn't bad production, which is what the Cubs have been getting too much of. If the Cubs aren't gonna go full boar into going after guys who can get on base 35+% of the time, then they need to get the most productive guys they can get who do it in other ways. Baldelli has the potential to be as good as it gets if you consider salary and the amount in talent it would take to acquire such a player. Alfonso is a much more productive hitter than Baldelli, and he's still not nearly as good as the Cubs need. The Cubs don't need more OBP liabilities. A 100 OPS+ that is SLG dependent is bad production. It's subpar, and paying more than the minimum for that kind of production is inefficient usage of resources. I'm not sure how Baldelli has the potential to be as good as it gets. He's got the potential to be a lesser Soriano, but even that is doubtful, given his longterm struggles with health. There would still need to be significant improvements made to the team if Baldelli is your key OF upgrade. Nobody is arguing significant upgrades wouldn't still need to be made regardless of Baldelli. In fact, I even explicitly said so earlier in the thread. And I would say Baldelli has the potential to be exactly like Soriano, not a lesser version. His 1/2 season in 2006, he put up .302/.339/.533 for a 122 OPS+, that's better than Alf's career numbers, and pretty much dead even with Soriano's 2007 and his good years with the Yankees (fwiw, Soriano was much better as a Nat, not nearly as good as a Ranger).

Except Hamilton isn't an OBP liability, does not have a guaranteed $6.5m coming his way and cost no talent to acquire. If they can have Rocco for nothing, fine. But you're guaranteed next to nothing from him, even if he does play. I didn't say he would have Hamilton's numbers. Just that he could finally be at the point to live up to his talent like Hamilton did in 07. And how is league average production next to nothing? Would have killed for average production from CF, SS and C last year.

Alfonso Soriano disagrees. It isn't GREAT production, but it also isn't bad production, which is what the Cubs have been getting too much of. If the Cubs aren't gonna go full boar into going after guys who can get on base 35+% of the time, then they need to get the most productive guys they can get who do it in other ways. Baldelli has the potential to be as good as it gets if you consider salary and the amount in talent it would take to acquire such a player.

Are you familiar with Baldelli? He was a top 6 draft pick and a top prospect in baseball for a couple years. He's a 5-tool player, and is by no means "gritty". Also, I clearly mentioned Baldelli's full season, which was right at league average.....at age 22. I know he hasn't played much since, but at 26, there's no reason to believe he can't be better. Baldelli could have a Josh Hamilton like resurgence in 2008. He's every bit as talented, and more experienced.

I'd trade Gallagher for Baldelli. And if Torii Hunter goes to Washington, Church's price tag likely goes down. They would have Wily Mo and Kearns for the corners.

I agree. He's a career 102 OPS+ hitter. Which is by no means great, but it is better than average. His only full season was almost exactly that at age 22. He's just now entering his prime and if he can stay on the field, he'll undoubtedly eclipse those numbers. If the Cubs trade for a high salary SS (Tejada), Baldelli would be a perfect compliment. I'd possibly combine getting Rocco with another cheap OF like Ryan Church and have a combo of Baldelli, Church, and Jones/Pie/Murton, whoever is still around, for the 2 non-Soriano OF spots.

I have wanted Bradley since Cleveland made him available. That hasn't changed. I don't know that he will be able to start the season on time, but a CF/RF rotation of Pie, Murton, and Bradley is a lot better than Floyd, Jones, and Pagan, which we saw a lot of in 2007.

He certainly helps. Cubs are not that good at scoring runs, Crawford is pretty good at producing them.

What? You completely missed the boat. It's the other way around. Hitters have a relatively shaky history and pitchers have been nails when coming over. The only pitchers to struggle are Irabu and Igawa. Every other one was perfectly fine. Even Irabu had success initially before the injuries piled up. The only pure bust is Igawa, and that is a sixty inning sample size. That's what I was thinking too. None of the Asian pitchers have been dominant (outside of maybe Nomo for a couple years), but only the ones you named have been bad. I don't know that hitters have been a bust either, because I can't think of too many hitters that have actually come over other than Matsui's, Ichiro, Iguchi, and the dude in Tampa. Choi and others have, but they haven't been in their prime as the original post stated. Hitters haven't came over. Choi didn't suck, but he's like Park. He doesn't count. We're talking about translating NPB players to US. Choi was signed out of high school in Korea. And Wang, etc. They're success or lack of it should not matter. The hitters who have came over off the top of my head: Hideki Matsui - Career .300 EqA Kazuo Matsui - Average offensive SS in the US Tadahito Iguchi - Top Ten 2B in the US (this guy has been REAL good since coming over) Kenji Jojima - Top Ten Catcher in the US (oh man if he could ever learn to walk) Ichiro Suzuki - Career .300 EqA Akinori Iwamura - .284 EqA - By my math his EqA should have translated to about a .280 EqA in the US (based on his last three seasons and his PECOTA was .284) yeah, that's basically what I was saying, that they should NOT count.

What? You completely missed the boat. It's the other way around. Hitters have a relatively shaky history and pitchers have been nails when coming over. The only pitchers to struggle are Irabu and Igawa. Every other one was perfectly fine. Even Irabu had success initially before the injuries piled up. The only pure bust is Igawa, and that is a sixty inning sample size. That's what I was thinking too. None of the Asian pitchers have been dominant (outside of maybe Nomo for a couple years), but only the ones you named have been bad. I don't know that hitters have been a bust either, because I can't think of too many hitters that have actually come over other than Matsui's, Ichiro, Iguchi, and the dude in Tampa. Choi and others have, but they haven't been in their prime as the original post stated.

But what about Slappy? Slappy to LF, where he is best suited to play, unless you consider "pinch runner" a position. Either that or 4-3 gets traded.

I think that will happen too - like you said. Where do you think Torii Hunter ends up? Rangers? Rangers are possible. I think Atlanta will make a strong run for him too.

The problem is Colvin hasn't done a thing, EP isn't really a CF, Jones is garbage and hopefully out the door soon, and Fuld is a nobody. Just because they have other guys who can man the position, you can't take away the fact that Pie does indeed play a premium position, and plays it well. If you are going to trade him, you have to get serious value. But still, SS is more at a premium than CF, and yes I did mean in the Cubs system because they can get by with Jones in 08, and then with Colvin or Patterson beyond. I don't know what you mean by "serious" value, but I think a pre-prime, pre-arbitration SS could apply. Khalil Greene is neither pre-prime nor pre-arbitration. He's 28 and played this year at $2.7m. He's eligible for arbitration this year and next before hitting free agency. Plus, he's a potential OBP black hole. Regardless of the power, anybody capable of .290 OBP seasons is going to kill a lineup. And his health has been a serious problem. My bad, I was thinking he was 27 and this was his 1st arby year. I'm living in 2006. Still, I think there's just as good a chance Pie gets on base less than 30% than it is that Greene does. And again, Greene has walked over .085 per PA twice in his career (looking like a strange every other year trend), so he's shown he's capable. Pie hasn't shown he can do it in any of his minor league seasons.

Rumors are that the Angels feel 1-upped by the Dodgers getting Torre. I think the Angels will do whatever it takes to get ARod to get the upperhand in LA again. Especially gonna need to once the Dodgers get Andruw Jones.....yeah, I said it!

For the record, I didn't say IU was a juggernaut. I said they looked like one. I didn't go into the defense, because my post was about the offense, and I didn't think anyone wanted to read an analysis of a game vs. a DII team. The IU board I post on, I went more in depth. The response to my post was basically you being confrontational because of your obvious IU bias. And who says you can't take anything from these games? IU beat a team they were supposed to beat by 45, by 45. They got 30 points from a guy that was thought to be the 3rd or 4th player off the bench. They got 12 points and great movement away from the ball from a guy who I assumed would be a sure redshirt. They got an impressive performance from a raw freshman who I didn't think would have much of a clue this year. If you want me to completely indepthly give my thoughts on every possession, I'll gladly do that so I meet your requirements. I apologize for not mentioning everything in a 3-line post and being optimistic about a team scoring 123 points in their first game as a team.

The problem is Colvin hasn't done a thing, EP isn't really a CF, Jones is garbage and hopefully out the door soon, and Fuld is a nobody. Just because they have other guys who can man the position, you can't take away the fact that Pie does indeed play a premium position, and plays it well. If you are going to trade him, you have to get serious value. But still, SS is more at a premium than CF, and yes I did mean in the Cubs system because they can get by with Jones in 08, and then with Colvin or Patterson beyond. I don't know what you mean by "serious" value, but I think a pre-prime, pre-arbitration SS could apply.

I think he is Eddie George Jr. He'll have 5 or 6 dominant years before his body breaks down. Perfect keeper cornerstone. Not nearly as bruising as George. Eddie ran into contact. Peterson runs around and eludes defenders. I think AD is pretty much a clone of Eric Dickerson.

Shaky history?

That's giving up an awful lot for 2 players. Greene doesn't really do much for me. He'd be an upgrade to Theriot, but I wouldn't be all that interested in the longterm contract they'd pretty much have to sign him to in order to justify trading away their biggest young asset. Crawford is nice and all, but that 5 player package should net you something more than a good corner outfielder. His contract is relatively team friendly for the next 3 years, but he's not exactly cheap. You'd have to find a way to get out of all of Jones' contract, and with trading away the Cubs best 5th starter option, plus perhaps the 2nd or 3rd best option for that spot, you'd pretty much have to keep Prior with the hopes of him giving you something. I'd try and keep either Marmol or Murton out of that package, and then maybe spin Murton off for something more. Yeah, I wouldn't give up that much either. I'd give up a lot for CC, though. That's giving up a starter, your best reliever, a possible starting position player, and then your 2 closest to the majors SP prospects for 1 player.

The Padres farm system doesn't have much. Chase Headley looks like the real deal, but he can't play SS. He's blocked at 3b, and the rumor I'm hearing is that they might shift him to 2b going into next year. I haven't the foggiest clue why San Diego would trade Khalil. They don't have anyone who can play SS. Would I trade Pie straight up for Khalil? Absolutely. Will it happen? No. Agreed. I would trade Pie for Greene in a heartbeat. OBP isn't what you would like to see, but he has had 2 seasons over .085 BB/PA, which is a solid number. His numbers outside of Petco are very respectable, and I'd imagine playing in Wrigley over Petco 81 times, would make him closer to an .800 OPS. Pie is no guarantee to do that, and he doesn't play a premium position in the Cubs organization.