mg420

i'm not saying veres can do it but doug jones had a pretty good career as a closer throwing 80 mph sinkers & a palm ball. location & movement are much more critical than just raw velocity - just ask greg maddux. and then ask the thousands upon thousands of other guys who couldn't make it because they lacked velocity. people don't seem to understand that maddux is the exception, not the rule. there are not many successful pitchers throwing 84. maybe thats because they pitch like they are throwing 94 instead of 84. knowing how to pitch and locate pitches is often lost in the world of the triple digit speed gun readings but there would be many more successful pitchers imo if they would learn (or be taught?) that velocity is not the major factor in getting batters out.

i'm not saying veres can do it but doug jones had a pretty good career as a closer throwing 80 mph sinkers & a palm ball. location & movement are much more critical than just raw velocity - just ask greg maddux.

Ceiling (you can teach delivery, movement, and command but not a fastball that touches 97 mph) and the fact that our system thins out so quickly after Pie, Veal, and EPatt. :( It's pretty sad when two of your draft picks (a 1st and 5th rounder) easily make your top 10 prospects list. what about sean g? I love the guy. He exceeds expectations and comes to camp ready to beat some hiney (unlike Pawelek). His ceiling just isn't that high, but he has a great chance of reaching it if last season is any indication of things to come. All those walks at AA scare me, but he managed to get himself out of a lot of trouble by pitching instead of throwing. A very good sign, IMO. His BB rates will return to normal. I just don't see his ceiling as being that high, even if it did take a jump this past season. i especially like his attitude. he is a bulldog type pitcher similar to the way hershiser was. i have seen him compared to peavy which is high praise indeed. if he can get his control back, i dont see why he wouldnt have an excellent year in aa.

Ceiling (you can teach delivery, movement, and command but not a fastball that touches 97 mph) and the fact that our system thins out so quickly after Pie, Veal, and EPatt. :( It's pretty sad when two of your draft picks (a 1st and 5th rounder) easily make your top 10 prospects list. what about sean g?

isnt wainwright the cards closer now? i thought they were going to keep him there because of his performance in the playoffs.

when did guesses & approximations become facts? the # of pitches approximation done is actually very well thought out and could quite likely be correct but i would hardly call it a fact. the 1st & second premises are accurate though.

i would say its almost a sure lock that soraino is in rf next year. 2b & cf seem to be out of the question and they want murton to get a shot in left. they just need to get rid of jones.

I'm still pretty pissed off that they stayed with Hawkins even though he just sucked as a closer. That team had one hell of a rotation and Prior was really coming on at the end of the year. Thanks Latroy/Dusty. the two biggest things dusty couldnt seem to understand were that remlinger couldnt get lefties out and hawkins couldnt close games. i wonder how many games those mental blocks cost the cubs?

Yes, with the pitchers jogging in the outfield, the manager signing autographs, and 1/2 the ball club there I could see how the pressure could get to a kid. Every game I've evered played whether it be a playoff game or beer league softball I've tried my damnedest. I really don't think guys who've played the game their entire life and are getting paid are any different.[/quote] i disagree. i watch some players not run to 1b, catch pop ups with one hand, jog to 2nd when they could have gone all the way to 3rd if they were running hard or dont bother to backup a play and am amazed that they even care about the game. baseball is a business and some of the players are just in it for the $$ and themselves.

Do you have stats for number of pitches thrown per season during that era? Pitches per plate appearance have increased pretty dramatically since then. it sure doesnt sound like that is the case according to this quote from Ferguson Jenkins: "I hear in the clubhouse all the time about a pitcher having a twinge, and they go on the disabled list. I would have never won any ballgames if I would have missed a start with a twinge. "Pitchers are definitely protected," added Jenkins. "I used to warm up and throw 100 pitches in the bullpen and then throw 150 pitches in the game. I would throw nine innings, which they usually won't let these young men do right now." link: http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060709&content_id=1549169&vkey=allstar2006&fext=.jsp He also walked barefoot in the snow, 5 miles, and uphill both ways to school every morning. When he got home, he shoveled coal into the family furnace for 3 hours just so the ice was thin enough the break though for his evening bath. After he was washed up, he cut the family firewood for the next day with the edge of his hand because his family couldn't afford an axe. He didn't complain one bit! Whippersnappers these days and their pitch counts. Back when old people were young, everything and everybody was better in every way. i'm sure you are trying to be funny but have you ever looked at the career stats jenkins had? perhaps you should do so and compare them to modern day pitchers and maybe you'll see he has a point. http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/jenkife01.shtml His stats are irrelevant. What is his point? Everyone now a days is a wussy? If everyone was an ironman like back in the day people wouldn't get injured? Injuries are due to people not toughing it out? Managers are babying these guys? Circumstances have changed. Pichers are a valuable commodity and are treated as such. We know more about arm injuries and how to prevent them now. Pitchers are throwing lots of breaking pitches and are throwing harder. There is a litanty of possibly reasons for pitchers not pitching as many innings. Jenkins quote isn't one of them, imo. somehow i think the opinion of a guy with 4500 ip and 267 cg & 49 shutouts in 664 games has a little more basis than a few fans opinions.

Do you have stats for number of pitches thrown per season during that era? Pitches per plate appearance have increased pretty dramatically since then. it sure doesnt sound like that is the case according to this quote from Ferguson Jenkins: "I hear in the clubhouse all the time about a pitcher having a twinge, and they go on the disabled list. I would have never won any ballgames if I would have missed a start with a twinge. "Pitchers are definitely protected," added Jenkins. "I used to warm up and throw 100 pitches in the bullpen and then throw 150 pitches in the game. I would throw nine innings, which they usually won't let these young men do right now." link: http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060709&content_id=1549169&vkey=allstar2006&fext=.jsp He also walked barefoot in the snow, 5 miles, and uphill both ways to school every morning. When he got home, he shoveled coal into the family furnace for 3 hours just so the ice was thin enough the break though for his evening bath. After he was washed up, he cut the family firewood for the next day with the edge of his hand because his family couldn't afford an axe. He didn't complain one bit! Whippersnappers these days and their pitch counts. Back when old people were young, everything and everybody was better in every way. i'm sure you are trying to be funny but have you ever looked at the career stats jenkins had? perhaps you should do so and compare them to modern day pitchers and maybe you'll see he has a point. http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/jenkife01.shtml I didn't see anything there that talks about pitches per plate appearance. Jenkins's career stats are indeed mind-boggling, but could they have been influenced by a lower level of pitches per plate appearance? Neither the Jenkins quote nor the funny part address the question raised. throwing 150 pitches per game doesnt address the question of how many pitches a season they used to throw?

Do you have stats for number of pitches thrown per season during that era? Pitches per plate appearance have increased pretty dramatically since then. it sure doesnt sound like that is the case according to this quote from Ferguson Jenkins: "I hear in the clubhouse all the time about a pitcher having a twinge, and they go on the disabled list. I would have never won any ballgames if I would have missed a start with a twinge. "Pitchers are definitely protected," added Jenkins. "I used to warm up and throw 100 pitches in the bullpen and then throw 150 pitches in the game. I would throw nine innings, which they usually won't let these young men do right now." link: http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060709&content_id=1549169&vkey=allstar2006&fext=.jsp What was the average velocity that pitchers threw back in the day? what does that matter? if throwing harder is worse on a pitchers arm perhaps they should throw softer and learn how to pitch instead of throwing to a number on a radar gun. maddux and hoffman are good modern day examples of this imo.

Do you have stats for number of pitches thrown per season during that era? Pitches per plate appearance have increased pretty dramatically since then. it sure doesnt sound like that is the case according to this quote from Ferguson Jenkins: "I hear in the clubhouse all the time about a pitcher having a twinge, and they go on the disabled list. I would have never won any ballgames if I would have missed a start with a twinge. "Pitchers are definitely protected," added Jenkins. "I used to warm up and throw 100 pitches in the bullpen and then throw 150 pitches in the game. I would throw nine innings, which they usually won't let these young men do right now." link: http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060709&content_id=1549169&vkey=allstar2006&fext=.jsp He also walked barefoot in the snow, 5 miles, and uphill both ways to school every morning. When he got home, he shoveled coal into the family furnace for 3 hours just so the ice was thin enough the break though for his evening bath. After he was washed up, he cut the family firewood for the next day with the edge of his hand because his family couldn't afford an axe. He didn't complain one bit! Whippersnappers these days and their pitch counts. Back when old people were young, everything and everybody was better in every way. i'm sure you are trying to be funny but have you ever looked at the career stats jenkins had? perhaps you should do so and compare them to modern day pitchers and maybe you'll see he has a point. http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/jenkife01.shtml

Do you have stats for number of pitches thrown per season during that era? Pitches per plate appearance have increased pretty dramatically since then. it sure doesnt sound like that is the case according to this quote from Ferguson Jenkins: "I hear in the clubhouse all the time about a pitcher having a twinge, and they go on the disabled list. I would have never won any ballgames if I would have missed a start with a twinge. "Pitchers are definitely protected," added Jenkins. "I used to warm up and throw 100 pitches in the bullpen and then throw 150 pitches in the game. I would throw nine innings, which they usually won't let these young men do right now." link: http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060709&content_id=1549169&vkey=allstar2006&fext=.jsp

I'm not so sure he refused anything. In fact last year it looked like he tried to change his mechanics. Wood was abused from High-School on. Good mechanics or not he was bound to get hurt. i dont think that is necessarily true. look at the inning & complete game totals from the 60's & 70's. 300 innings with 25+ complete games was not uncommon. having the correct mechanics & training your arm to throw more often seems to be the key to not getting injured as opposed to limiting innings pitched.

He'd be stupid not to take it. No he wouldn't. He could still get more on the open market. He could have his choice of the team he wants to play for. He could get out of Canada. I wouldn't take the deal at this point. Worst case scenario, he gets severely injured and gets a 1-year deal for a ton of money and gets his shot as a FA after 2008. maybe the blue jays are his team of choice. who's to say he doesnt want to stay in toronto?

By my count, they are at 39 with those 3 guys not yet counting. They could take 2 guys off the roster, but I think Hendry is hoping to make a trade to get the space. if that true i would think jones & one of the lefties in the pen (ohman?) are the likely canidates to be dealt.

This whole thing is Larry's idea. I have a whole host of feelings about this, but none of them are suitable for NSBB. :x Wow. How big do his cajones have to be to think he can succeed where Duncan and Leo-freakin'-Mazzone failed? I'd sure like to know why Larry would be working with Marquis in the offseason in the first place. That seems weird to me. I thought I read somewhere that Duncan had identified where Marquis was tipping off his pitches, and he wound up throwing his hands up in disgust because Marquis wouldn't work with him to get rid of the "tells." from mlb.com: "Jason called me shortly after they got done with the World Series and asked me if he could come down and throw," Rothschild told WGN Radio on Friday night. "He'd talked to [Greg] Maddux during the season and [Maddux] recommended that if he had a chance to let me see him." "Maddux and Marquis were teammates in Atlanta. Marquis threw once for Rothschild, and the two talked pitching mechanics. " http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061209&content_id=1758640&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp

if this is true then why is it all over cubs.com that the cubs signed marquis for 3 years?

bruce miles today on the Marquis deal: "if the Cubs reach a deal with Marquis, chances are it would contain at least one option year and perhaps “vesting” options that would kick in if Marquis reaches certain goals. " doesnt sound like a done deal to me and certainly not for 3 years & 28 million. http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/cubs.asp?id=258271

tangent

Frankly, I expect the Cubs to trade Fontenot. They don't seem to think he can be a utility guy at all. it would be a shame if they do trade him. he would provide many things they need as a utility guy including a left handed bat , very good obp and the ability to play 2b & 3b.

time for the cubs to look into westbrook again.

i guess this means the cubs didnt lose campusano? no, he was taken in the major league phase by Milwaukee and then traded to Detroit so if he doesnt stick with detroit the whole year, who gets him back the brewers or the cubs? Cubs good. with the pen detroit has, i expect to see him back with the cubs again. It's always the original team that gets the player back. Likewise, if Hamilton doesn't stick with the Reds it will be Tampa Bay, not the Cubs, who gets him back. And a couple years ago Baltimore drafted Luke Hagerty from the Cubs, then traded him to Florida. When he didn't stick with Florida he went back to the Cubs, not Baltimore. thanks for the info. thats what i thought but it never hurts to ask.