Sarcastic

Even with the track record Jones has against Hudson, it is awfully hard to justify playing him.

And I'll be right there with you unfortunately. Keep in mind, even if they win, they will still be 4 games under .500. I'm saving any optimism until they at least reach 500 again. I feel like we've had this conversation before...

And I'll be right there with you unfortunately. Keep in mind, even if they win, they will still be 4 games under .500.

For general information for those who didn't watch the game on CSN (not directed at you, you seem to know where this is from), they did some internet poll with the question, "Should Soriano and Pie bat 1st and 2nd from now on?" 94% said yes.

ya lol, im sure hes ready those high school pitchers are all u need to be ready for the pros, vitters is gonna be really damn good tho, from what i have read today he is projected to be a .290-.310 hitter with 35-40 homer power i read he is projected to be jesus. How's Jesus' plate discipline these days?

I didn't think much of this at first, but when you factor in their positions and fielding abilities...

And Theriot had a great hack at a fastball about a foot off the plate too. Yeah but he hasn't been a wad of suck all year like the other two clowns. A .685 OPS is a pretty big wad of suck. Not at all equal to the ones Jones and Izturis have been working on this season, but still pretty impressive.

And Theriot had a great hack at a fastball about a foot off the plate too.

And that's why they're batting at the bottom of the order.

Realistically, Jones is going to play. He will not be benched, and he will not be released. The argument we are having is purely hypothetical. Therefore, you can't say that Jones automatically means a lot fewer ABs for others. Hypothetically, it would be best if Jones were benched and Pagan sent to AAA. That way Murton could get his ABs, and we would still have a chance to trade Jones. Problems solved. Realistically the only way to solve the problem is the trade him ASAP or DFA. Jones sucks, he was a predictably bad signing and the Cubs will be better off without him. DFA is as realistic as benching him, that is to say, not very. I'm all for getting rid of Jones, I just don't think we accomplish anything by DFAing him and replacing him with a similar or worse player. The Cubs aren't better off without him if they still have to pay his salary and he isn't blocking a better player. Right now, he is blocking Murton, but he doesn't have to be (remember, this is a hypothetical). Again, why not send Pagan down?

I'll agree that trading Jones, even for peanuts, would be the best solution. The only problem is that it seems as though it would be difficult to find a taker for him at this point.

Realistically, Jones is going to play. He will not be benched, and he will not be released. The argument we are having is purely hypothetical. Therefore, you can't say that Jones automatically means a lot fewer ABs for others. Hypothetically, it would be best if Jones were benched and Pagan sent to AAA. That way Murton could get his ABs, and we would still have a chance to trade Jones. Problems solved.

Exactly.

The compelling reason is that he sucks. But yes, the current crop of 6 OF and 1 backup MI is a bad mix. Even with Ramirez they are short on infielders. So why not send down Pagan? He's hot now, but that won't last, and sending him to the minors won't commit the team to paying Jones' salary right away.

Less AB by Jones means more for Murton and Floyd, who are both better than him. True, but that makes the best solution benching him. I admit that it won't happen under Pinellia and Hendry, but neither will DFAing him, so I assumed we were speaking in hypotheticals. Not necessarily. He's redundent while the team is lacking infield help. If you dump him for Fontenot, he might give you less production, but he can play positions Jacque can't play, and that's a need. Jones is not outperforming any other OF on the team. His numbers could very easily stay as bad as they are, and if they are, or even close, he's clearly the worst OF on the roster and the obvious candidate for getting rid of him. But the fact that he makes the money he makes only encourages Lou to use him more, so talking about DFA vs bench isn't realistic. Do we really need to drop Jones to get another IFer? Ramirez is only down until Monday, so we'd be dropping him just to get an extra infielder for a few days. I don't think that is a compelling reason. The OF is too crowded right now and all of our RF options pretty much suck defensively. I would rather have Floyd or Murton in the lineup over Jones right now. With Floyd here, one of them is redundant. We can't keep both of them. I can understand playing Murton against lefties but what about against RHP? Split time between Jones (who sucks really bad right now) and Floyd? Somebody has to go. Pagan is here to play CF if something happens to Pie so we have too many OFers. You'd rather blow Jones' salary and keep Pagan than just bench Jones and send Pagan to the minors? I don't get it. Pagan is no improvement over Jones. He may be on a hot streak now, but when he cools down, he'll be awful.

NOOOOO!

Less AB by Jones means more for Murton and Floyd, who are both better than him. True, but that makes the best solution benching him. I admit that it won't happen under Pinellia and Hendry, but neither will DFAing him, so I assumed we were speaking in hypotheticals. Not necessarily. He's redundent while the team is lacking infield help. If you dump him for Fontenot, he might give you less production, but he can play positions Jacque can't play, and that's a need. Jones is not outperforming any other OF on the team. His numbers could very easily stay as bad as they are, and if they are, or even close, he's clearly the worst OF on the roster and the obvious candidate for getting rid of him. But the fact that he makes the money he makes only encourages Lou to use him more, so talking about DFA vs bench isn't realistic. Do we really need to drop Jones to get another IFer? Ramirez is only down until Monday, so we'd be dropping him just to get an extra infielder for a few days. I don't think that is a compelling reason.

Don't get your hopes up. I just want them to get back to .500.

Less AB by Jones means more for Murton and Floyd, who are both better than him. True, but that makes the best solution benching him. I admit that it won't happen under Pinellia and Hendry, but neither will DFAing him, so I assumed we were speaking in hypotheticals.

I think it's still a bit premature for that. There's nobody who is going to replace him now who is going to be significantly better, whether that ends up being Pagan (I know, he's up right now, but Ward will probably replace him when he comes back), Cedeno, or Fontenot. Jones isn't necessarily completely washed up yet-trade him for absolutely anything you can get, but just releasing him doesn't really help the Cubs right now without a great option to replace him on the roster. Right now, he can be a pinch hitter and backup CF. A month ago I may have agreed. But time's a wasting, and this roster needs fixing. They need backup IF help ASAP. An OF of Soriano, Pie, Floyd/Murton, with Ward and Pagan on the bench is as good or better than one that has Jones in the mix. At the very least you cut down substantially on veteran whining, by getting Jones out of here and Floyd more playing time. And Jones has shown no signs of hitting his way out of this funk. Last year's slow start didn't last in May, let alone June. Jacque and the Cubs are like poison to each other at this point. There is no value in having him on the team, and it's quite possibly there is actually negative value. Indeed, removing Jones = addition by subtraction It only improves the team if we replace him with a better player. There is no such thing as addition by subtraction, unless you get to dump the player's salary too. Jones has been terrible this year, and probably isn't about to turn it around, but there still isn't any point in replacing him with someone as bad or worse than he is. I don't buy any of the clubhouse chemistry "Chicago is bad for Jacques" or "get rid of the whiner" arguments. If the first were true, he wouldn't have had one of his best seasons last year, and the second is the sort of intangibles argument that wouldn't hold any water around here, if the team wasn't playing so badly.

Just curious; who do we have to replace him? It is one thing to trade Jones for peanuts, but to take on his full salary and get nothing in return? We don't even have a decent player to take his spot. Are you still talking about Jones? We don't even have a decent player in him. True, but paying for his salary just so we can replace him with someone of equal or lesser value makes no sense.

Just curious; who do we have to replace him? It is one thing to trade Jones for peanuts, but to take on his full salary and get nothing in return? We don't even have a decent player to take his spot.

It seems that he's a deeply polarizing figure on NSBB. yep....those who are in on the joke and those who aren't Yeah, I remember looking at the thread that started this. My post was also a joke.

D. Barney sure will be easier to type in the daily minor league boxes, though. You Cali. you got Barney's stats? Player AVG GP-GS AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB SLG% BB HBP SO GDP OB% SF SH SB-ATT PO A E FLD% 10 Darwin Barney.... .296 60-60 250 48 74 18 2 4 48 108 .432 30 3 29 11 .370 6 4 12-15 108 187 17 .946 That doesn't look encouraging. Is there any speculation as to why the Cubs would pick this guy (aside from sheer incompetence, of course)?

Funny, everything I read said that Vitters was a consensus Top 5 pick, wouldn't get past the Pirates at 4, and was the best hitter in the draft. Weird how how a high school prospect with no ceiling could be so highly regarded. I was referring primarily to Donaldson with the later parts of that post, as I made clear when I mentioned him by name. Also, I wasn't criticizing the draft picks the Cubs took, if you bothered to read the rest of my post. EDIT: Hold on, the post you quoted from me wasn't even originally posted in this thread! It was from the Cubs picks thread. Could these posts be moved, please?