Sarcastic

Why cut him now? Now that they have finally identified and begun to address a concrete issue, showing that his troubles weren't just inherent to his arm, you want to get rid of him? For a team with the Cubs' payroll, there is no reason to abandon the investment now that their appears to be some distant possibility of a partial return to form, even if the rehab does take a year. Should they sign him to a long term contract? Probably not, since he is still a risk. Should they cut him for nothing? No, since all they have to lose is a small amount of budget space, in return for an actual chance, as opposed to the imaginary one before this problem was found, to see a talented pitcher return to the mound next year.

Gotta hustle, dude. It's like fishing.

Ugh. Well, at least this means they might have actually corrected a problem. I wish they had been able to do this last year, when it didn't make a difference, though. It probably won't make much of a difference this year either, if they don't turn it around fast.

So does it at all seem weird to you that a black cat happened to circle Santo in the midst of the Cubs' collapse in 69? If you told that to someone that doesn't follow baseball but knew about the Cubs' struggles, they would think you were joking.....And thats just the tip of the iceberg. You cannot come up with nearly the list of crazy junk that has happened to other teams. There are scattered examples (Bill Buckner, Indians' 06 run differential, etc) but nothing like the Cubs. And still, for all the crazy seeming coincidences you bring up, my answer remains the same. No theory can be created to predict these events based on the concept of a curse, because a curse is inherently random, irrational, and unpredicable. So, it is still no evidence in favor of or against the existence of such a thing existing.

How about we try not to suck for a day, guys?

You sound like a Rex Sox or White Sox fan about 5 years ago. Curses do not exist. Sorry, but even if I agree with you, Cardinals fans do not get to discuss curses. Ever.

I'm sorry, I just can't see spending the tiny amount of spirituality that hasn't been crushed out of me on a baseball curse. There is, like I said, no way to ever show evidence of a curse, so there is no rational way to believe in the truth of a curse. Well, you think curses are irrational and I think continuing to use blind chance as an explanation is irrational. If you flipped a coin 100 times and it kept coming up heads, would you say that it is cursed? Such events occur. With such an incredible number of probabilities calculated every second, it is inevitable that some streaks emerge. Now, you might be able to convince me that it was a trick coin, but then you would have to use some actual evidence, like showing me the heads on both sides. The losing does suggest the possibility of an modifying factor. In this case, bad management seems the most likely culprit. The management hasnt been the same for 99 years. Also, if I was flipping a coin and it came up heads 61 times, then it looked like it was going to come up tails but a black cat jumped out and knocked it heads, then on flip 74 it was going to come up tails but it fell through a crack in the floor and then ended up heads, then on flip 95 it seemed sure to come down on tails but someone tried to grab it for a souvenir and knocked it heads, and then on flip 99 I committed $300 million to try and get it to come up tails and it came up heads harder than ever.....I would REALLY start to think somethings up. Of course management can't explain every loss. Some is chance, some occur from other factors. We would need a hell of a computer to analyze the exact reasons for every Cubs loss. If that cat happened to come by, perhaps there was a reason the cat was attracted to it? Really, coincidence is not evidence. You need causation, not correlation. You cannot give evidence for a curse. No matter what you do, you cannot postulate an irrational law like a curse, since it doesn't act in a predictable way. After the fact, you can come up with as many theories connecting the mishaps with a curse as you like, but unless those theories predict the exact nature of future instances of the curse (which they can't since it doesn't follow a rational pattern) they are nothing but a bunch of belief.

The 2006 Cleveland Indians would like to say hello. They finished the year 78-84 but outscored their opponents 870 to 782 for a pythag W/L of 90-72. Now, they didn't finish in last place, and can thank the Royals for that, but they did finish in 4th. Thank you. Data is good. This goes to show that the Cubs are not the only team capable of having a long streak of losing in close games. I doubt if even the Cubs have ever had numbers that severe. Once again, the Cubs are not the only team to have terrible streaks.

I'm sorry, I just can't see spending the tiny amount of spirituality that hasn't been crushed out of me on a baseball curse. There is, like I said, no way to ever show evidence of a curse, so there is no rational way to believe in the truth of a curse. Well, you think curses are irrational and I think continuing to use blind chance as an explanation is irrational. If you flipped a coin 100 times and it kept coming up heads, would you say that it is cursed? Such events occur. With such an incredible number of probabilities calculated every second, it is inevitable that some streaks emerge. Now, you might be able to convince me that it was a trick coin, but then you would have to use some actual evidence, like showing me the heads on both sides. The losing does suggest the possibility of an modifying factor. In this case, bad management seems the most likely culprit.

If I waited til tomorrow to vote on this, my answer would be different, but tonight, you know what it is.

I'm sorry, I just can't see spending the tiny amount of spirituality that hasn't been crushed out of me on a baseball curse. There is, like I said, no way to ever show evidence of a curse, so there is no rational way to believe in the truth of a curse.

we can say that there are forces at work here that we don't yet understand. because that's what it appears to be. i prefer to call it a curse, it's what's comfortable to me. the facts are that the cubs haven't won in a very long time, and haven't been in a WS since sianis vowed that they wouldn't be. that's a coincidence, a very large one. you don't have to believe in it, not at all. There are plenty of bizarre coincidences in the world. That does not contradict our current understanding of the universe, which allows for the possibility, and even probability, of the existence of streaks. This is no proof of a curse, or even a new force. If you choose to channel your religious inclinations towards a curse of a baseball team, so be it, be recognize it for what it is; not truth, but faith. Faith in failure.

No. There are valid explanations, and there are invalid explanations. Many teams have gone through long stretches of failing in close games. The Cubs seem to have done so for longer, but it appears that way to the fans of many teams. I would like to see statistics for the Cubs in 1 run games over the last 100 years, and compare them to the statistics of other teams. That might shed some light on the curse garbage. Tonights valid explanation was putting a terrible relief pitcher into a crucial situation. I'm tired of seeing Lou make the same moves over and over expecting something to change. The only relief pitchers that have been decent this year are Wuertz and Cotts, and yet Lou continues to use Eyre in big situations. Eyre is not a terrible reliever. He's actually had a pretty decent career, but like most relievers, is not consistent. I'll agree that he probably shouldn't be coming into close games until he finds his next hot streak. Eyre has been a terrible reliever since the end of last year. It was a bad idea for Hendry to sign a mediocre LHP like Eyre and strap the Cubs with him for 3 yrs. The only thing that makes his suckiness worse, is that he is always smiling and joking around like something is funny. Terrible and terrible since the end of last yera are two totally different things. He will find his stuff again at some point. He'll probably even get hot sometime this year, even if it proves to be an off year for him. He'll have a good year, then a mediocre one, etc, etc...

If you define consistent as never having blown a lead, I guess. But Dempster has been strong, and Howry has been decent. Even Ohman has only been so terrible because he was being horribly misused. The only big disappointment in the pen is Eyre.

Nobody's saying the Cubs are going to win the division this year. But if they end up in last place, it will not be because they never won a 1 run game, it will because they were outscored, maybe with a little bit of help from a bad record in 1 run games. they're outscoring people this year and look what's happening, just look. if you refuse to look and see what has always happened is happening once more then that's your prerogative. If you refuse to listen to what I am saying that is yours, but I will repeat myself more clearly. If, at the END OF THE SEASON (that was implied in my last post) they are in last place, it will be because they were outscored. Anybody can suck in one run games in a sample size like this. Believe it or not, the Cubs are not the only team to have ever had a run like this. not consistently, year in and out. Show me the data. Even if the team has the worst club record in 1 run games in the league, I would bet that it is not a major aberration from the expected bottom of the lot. The Cubs have not, I remind you, been terrible in 1 run games year in and year out.

Whats your evidence that curses aren't real? The wonderful thing about curses is that, like all other things falling into the irrational realm of human thought, they cannot be proven or disproven. This is because they have no defined impact on the real world. Anything can be interpreted as evidence for or against a curse. In a way, it is a form of spiritualism. You might as well pray to the Sun God to give you a boutiful harvest. If you want to believe in curses, that is up to you. Realistically though, curses have nothing to do with the real, material world. Believe it or not, that is where baseball is played. you talk as if everything about the "material world" is already known. it's not. not by a long shot. the "material world" is not an absolute, it's closer to a concoction created by the mind and the collective minds of other observers. True, but that doesn't mean we can start making up forces that act in purely unpredictable, irrational ways and say that they are perfectly rational because our current understanding does not fortell every element of the future. That is essentially what a curse does. It is random, unpredictable, and irrational. There is no way to EVER give evidence for the existence of a curse, simply because it has those properties.

Nobody's saying the Cubs are going to win the division this year. But if they end up in last place, it will not be because they never won a 1 run game, it will because they were outscored, maybe with a little bit of help from a bad record in 1 run games. they're outscoring people this year and look what's happening, just look. if you refuse to look and see what has always happened is happening once more then that's your prerogative. If you refuse to listen to what I am saying that is yours, but I will repeat myself more clearly. If, at the END OF THE SEASON (that was implied in my last post) they are in last place, it will be because they were outscored. Anybody can suck in one run games in a sample size like this. Believe it or not, the Cubs are not the only team to have ever had a run like this.

Whats your evidence that curses aren't real? The wonderful thing about curses is that, like all other things falling into the irrational realm of human thought, they cannot be proven or disproven. This is because they have no defined impact on the real world. Anything can be interpreted as evidence for or against a curse. In a way, it is a form of spiritualism. You might as well pray to the Sun God to give you a boutiful harvest. If you want to believe in curses, that is up to you. Realistically though, curses have nothing to do with the real, material world. Believe it or not, that is where baseball is played. What makes your line of thinking more rational? I have a mountain of evidence. But it is all purely subjective evidence, and so not really evidence at all. Like I said, when it comes to the realm of the spiritual, anything can be seen as evidence for or against. There is certainly no way to objectively show the existence of a curse, and no way to disprove one either. Belief in curses is irrational due to that fact, no evidence can be seen as an objective support in the way you might gather objective evidence in a science experiment. You cannot say that the Cubs bad record in one run games means that the Goat controls their destiny through black magic, since that might just be how some other unseen force in the universe wants to make it look.

Nobody's saying the Cubs are going to win the division this year. But if they end up in last place, it will not be because they never won a 1 run game, it will because they were outscored, maybe with a little bit of help from a bad record in 1 run games.

Whats your evidence that curses aren't real? The wonderful thing about curses is that, like all other things falling into the irrational realm of human thought, they cannot be proven or disproven. This is because they have no defined impact on the real world. Anything can be interpreted as evidence for or against a curse. In a way, it is a form of spiritualism. You might as well pray to the Sun God to give you a boutiful harvest. If you want to believe in curses, that is up to you. Realistically though, curses have nothing to do with the real, material world. Believe it or not, that is where baseball is played.

No. There are valid explanations, and there are invalid explanations. Many teams have gone through long stretches of failing in close games. The Cubs seem to have done so for longer, but it appears that way to the fans of many teams. I would like to see statistics for the Cubs in 1 run games over the last 100 years, and compare them to the statistics of other teams. That might shed some light on the curse garbage. Tonights valid explanation was putting a terrible relief pitcher into a crucial situation. I'm tired of seeing Lou make the same moves over and over expecting something to change. The only relief pitchers that have been decent this year are Wuertz and Cotts, and yet Lou continues to use Eyre in big situations. Eyre is not a terrible reliever. He's actually had a pretty decent career, but like most relievers, is not consistent. I'll agree that he probably shouldn't be coming into close games until he finds his next hot streak.

Don't count on it. It may not happen often this season, but it will most likely happen at some point, so say the laws of probability.

No. There are valid explanations, and there are invalid explanations. Many teams have gone through long stretches of failing in close games. The Cubs seem to have done so for longer, but it appears that way to the fans of many teams. I would like to see statistics for the Cubs in 1 run games over the last 100 years, and compare them to the statistics of other teams. That might shed some light on the curse garbage.

Well said Wow, even the fans are getting the loser attitude. Sure the Cubs have been playing poor, but to say there is nothing they can do to win is idiotic. The only thing the Cubs are cursed with is a moron for a GM that doesn't have a clue how to assemble a team. The Cubs could get Earl Weaver to manage this team and they would still be in last place. Hendry has to go, it is too bad they let him saddle the team long term before he left. they have a team that should be winning. they're 0-5 in 1 run games and derrek lee has no home runs. weird stuff is happening. you better start believing in curses, becaue this curse is a dilly. Yay for stupid BS kneejerk reactions! Repeat after me: Curses are not real. Now, write that on the blackboard 1000 times. Is it possible for the team to outscore their opponents but still end up last in the division? Yes. Is it likely to happen over a 162 game season? No. It can happen, but it is no more likely to happen because of some imaginary voodoo nonsense some people made up to explain a a bizarre longterm aberration.

I know we all have our gut reactions, but how many here actually believe that it is possible that, despite scoring substantially more runs than their opponents, it is possible for a team to have an extreme losing record because they can't "man up" or some other BS? It is possible that the real fluke is that the Cubs have outscored their opponents, not that despite that, they have a terrible record. It is more likely that there will be stretches in which they outscore their opponents in every series and still lose, and stretches (though they admittedly seem rare as hell) in which they do the opposite. I don't think they are total losers. But they'd better prove that the run differential isn't the real fluke soon, or we'll have to abandon the season again in late May/early June.