Rob

5 cost controlled years of a 24 year old left handed starter who has 3.3 WAR in 208.2 IP. The recently acquired Mat Latos had 3.2 WAR in 194.1 IP last season, just as a reference. If you think Wood's true talent level is somewhere right in the middle of his last two years, and that he can throw 200 IP in a season, he's a hell of a piece to get.

How is this "breaking news"? Theo has been dumpster diving for the last few weeks and has offered to trade anyone that anyone will take (except Castro). As for Fielder, any of you posters who think we've been serious bidders have been smoking something. Backtobanks criticizing other posters for having what he feels are unrealistic expectations of who will end up on our roster... Hmmm...

Are we even certain Reed got a major league deal?

Yeah, I read that article... In short, his sources are employees of other teams who think we should be starting a complete rebuild. There's nobody in the Cubs org telling him we will.

The Cubs have upgraded RF by about as much as they've downgraded at 3B. Given the monumentally bad luck of our pitching staff last season, it's reasonable to expect some improvements there. Our CF most likely is not going to get his face exploded by a fastball. There's also reason to hope for rebounds at C and LF, though those are less than certainties. And we can always hope for continued development from Castro and perhaps Barney. Right now, I expect the 2012 Cubs to be better than 2011. Perhaps not from a sheer talent standpoint, but that wasn't really a 71 win team last year to begin with. I could see us approaching .500 depending on what we do to close out the offseason. I could also see us heading the other direction if we firesale this beeyotch. There's still plenty of options out there to go either way with it. Isn't a part of this also due to the fact that we were awful defensively? The BABIP stuff applies mostly to Garza and Demp (and Casey Coleman, weirdly enough), but let's just forget all about that for a second. - We got one start from Cashner. - We got one start from Wells before he hit the DL. After he returned too early he went from being a ~0.8 HR/9 guy in his first 350 innings (good) to nearly double that at 1.53 HR/9 for the next 130 (abysmal). If he's healthy, there's plenty of reason to think that number will go way back down. - Z spent another season being jerked between the rotation and the bullpen because our GM and manager wanted a scapegoat. I have a hard time believing we're going to get so little from our 3/4/5 starters next season.

The Cubs have upgraded RF by about as much as they've downgraded at 3B. Given the monumentally bad luck of our pitching staff last season, it's reasonable to expect some improvements there. Our CF most likely is not going to get his face exploded by a fastball. There's also reason to hope for rebounds at C and LF, though those are less than certainties. And we can always hope for continued development from Castro and perhaps Barney. Right now, I expect the 2012 Cubs to be better than 2011. Perhaps not from a sheer talent standpoint, but that wasn't really a 71 win team last year to begin with. I could see us approaching .500 depending on what we do to close out the offseason. I could also see us heading the other direction if we firesale this beeyotch. There's still plenty of options out there to go either way with it.

What is it that makes you think Johnson will be a better player in 2012 than Campana? Ideally, I'd like for our bench to be full of specialists so that we can fully maximize their value. Campana could be around as the pinch runner/defender but we do need guys around who can pinch hit too. That said, I'd have preferred it if we'd have just protected Ryan Flaherty and used him on the bench. He'd have added a power hitting lefty and his defensive versatility would have allowed us to use Jeff Baker as an OF who can mash lefties. But we couldn't protect Flaherty because we needed to hold those spots for guys we were going to bring in the offseason. "Those guys" were not supposed to include Reed [expletive] Johnson Hence my growing frustration. The move only gets worse the more I think about it.

What is it that makes you think Johnson will be a better player in 2012 than Campana? Ideally, I'd like for our bench to be full of specialists so that we can fully maximize their value. Campana could be around as the pinch runner/defender but we do need guys around who can pinch hit too. That said, I'd have preferred it if we'd have just protected Ryan Flaherty and used him on the bench. He'd have added a power hitting lefty and his defensive versatility would have allowed us to use Jeff Baker as an OF who can mash lefties.

Johnson's defense doesn't make him all that appealing a platoon player, especially if he's having to man a corner spot. I honestly hadn't looked up his numbers before I posted anything. I had just assumed "guy who can only kinda play CF is probably still pretty good in the corners." Nevermind. Carry on fellas.

He's been signed to be our 4th OF. His lefty mashing abilities may make some sense in the event the front office concedes DeJesus shouldn't face lefties. He's not blocking anybody and he's pretty likely to provide surplus value over whatever paltry amount he ended up signing for. Not worth getting upset about.

It's more than just about him being fat. It's about trying to match up his best years when we're going to be competitive. If we're signing him while accepting the fact that we still won't be much more than an 80 win team next season, then likely his best season as a Cub was just wasted. Also, a lot of posters seem okay with the thought that the end of the contract won't be great for Prince personally, so there's 2-3 wasted years of a huge contract. It's just a bad time. But yes, fat players have shown more of a propensity to decline sooner. Well, then, by all means, lets suck for three years. You've convinced me. So, "there's a better way to spend that money" is the same thing as "let's suck for three years?" Sign Edwin Jackson (3/$36?) and Hiroki Kuroda (2/$25?). Together, they should cost about the same as Prince will on an annual basis. Trade Z, Cashner, and Brett Jackson to the Marlins for Logan Morrison. Fielder may be better than Morrison... at least in the short term. However, Jackson and Kuroda covers the gap pretty well when our 4/5 starter options is some disgusting mishmash of Z/Cashner/Coleman/Samardzija based on health, anger issues, and performance). There's significantly less risk and more long-term upside.

If your referring to Davis, it wouldn't be a straight up deal, but TB would be the perfect trading partner for us. They're looking to move Davis or Niemann, I'd much prefer Davis as well as Brignac, who seems like the type Theo would be interested in. They're looking for back end relievers as well as a starting catcher and offense in general. Would Soto and Marshall for Davis and Brignac be reasonable? Anything either side would need to add? I mentioned this before but something like Marshall/Marmol, Soto, and Jackson for Upton and Davis could be an interesting blockbuster with some additional pieces changing hands as well. I could see them being interested in working Soriano into it assuming we pick up most if the bill. Why in the hell are you all about Wade Davis now? Wade Davis has a higher career FIP than Casey Coleman. He doesn't strike anybody out. He doesn't even throw hard. Unless we have a pitching coach or a scout that sees something that could make a huge difference, there is absolutely no reason at all to give up anything of even the slightest amount of value for Wade Davis. I know he was a prospect at one point, but he's just a below average major league starter now.

Honest question... Is there any actual evidence to back up the old "get more for pitchers/relievers/lefties at the deadline" theory? I'd be really interested to know.

I suppose we could also pay for two closers... but with as many holes as this team has, does anybody really think the bullpen is a great place to be allocating all our resources?

Am I missing something? The Cubs pretty much have to trade at least one of Marshall/Marmol. Marshall is one of the best relievers in baseball and is a FA after this season. Somebody will make him their closer (and give him closer money). So we can either trade him now and get something, trade Marmol and extend Marshall (who would be our new closer), or let Marshall walk after the season (for which we would not get any compensation under the new CBA).

If Wood is the pitcher he was in 2010, that's a great move. If he's the Wood from 2011, I'd rather try to snag a nice upside prospect elsewhere.

Well, hell, sign me up twice then. Good thing we didn't waste money on a fatty Seriously guys? Yeah, this is getting a bit silly... and not just because it's in the Darvish thread.

But why spend 12 or 13 mil per year when you can get the same value from a guy for half that? We just got DeJesus, a better player, for about 1/3 of what Ethier will make per season.

I was asked who we COULD spend money on in 2013. BASED ON A SCENARIO I had mentioned. As one of the biggest bats avaialable that offseason, I mentioned him, proceeded to say he wouldn't hit the market, followed by saying he had tons of red flags, followed by saying if I'm signing a bat from that class, it'd probably be Upton or maybe Ethier, but we'd probably have to trade for a bat because the class is so weak. What a ringing endorsment for Josh Hamilton I gave! Ethier? Jesus Christ. What's wrong with Ethier, other than he's evidently a prick towards some of his current teammates? He played hurt most of this past season and his 3 previous ones he had OPS'S of .885, .869, and .857. He'd be 31 at that point and could probably be had on a 3 or 4 year deal. I don't see a problem with him. He's not great defensively? That's not enough to bother me about him. "Not that great defensively" is an understatement. He's abysmal in the field. Last year he had a huge dropoff in power and the only reason his overall numbers didn't look terribly out of the ordinary was a BABIP of .348. I'd suspect that's the start of his decline. For a player that was never much more than a 3.0 WAR guy anyways, I don't want him for anywhere near what he's gonna get paid. That fun old game again. Figure out the mystery early 30's outfielders based off their WAR every year since 2006 (when Ethier broke into the league). A: 2.4, 2.0, 3.5, 2.8, 2.2, 2.9 Total - 15.8 B: 4.4, 1.9, 2.5, 3.7, 2.6, 2.2 Total - 17.3 C: 1.0, 4.4, 1.6, 1.5, 3.3, 2.2 Total - 14.0 There are free agent outfielders every year with comparable or better value than Ethier who will only come at a fraction of the cost. You want to be able to afford to take risks on guys like Fielder and Darvish? We do that by not wasting money elsewhere.

I wont lie... this hurts. And now I'm worried we're going to sign Fielder to a poorly advised deal in a desperate bid to show we're doing something. Sleeping on it for a night will perhaps provide some more perspective, but for tonight at least I've reached the point where I'd be fine with a full-scale rebuilding process.

Buster Olney is reporting Pushfrog98 is getting banned.

BAN!

C'mon $48,151,623.42

And suddenly, I realized that Hollandsworth's mug wasn't a moron... he was just a frustrated guy with blue balls. CONSUMMATE SOMETHING ALREADY!!!

Were you asking me that and who the hell is that? its the person you share an IP address with... Very Thundergun.