Rob

Considering the odds are good that Barrett ends up being a net positive for the team, while Lou has probably already put himself out of position to have any chance of a positive contribution, I'd say that's just about dead on.

Well I haven't seen that fight, so I can't really comment on it. ladies and gentlemen, Joe Morgan. nothing against you WF22, i just had to. The same Joe Morgan who blasted Billy Beane for writing Moneyball (which he didn't) and who ridiculed all the points of the book (which he didn't read)?

Actually, I think that's completely justified in that situation. whole situation is avoided if barrett just mans up and takes it. Whole situation is avoided if Zambrano isn't a baby, or doesn't try and blame his team for the 13 hits and six earned runs. Whole situation is also avoided if Barrett plays like a competent major league catcher rather than committing both a passed ball and an error to allow a run to score, then following Zambrano to the clubhouse for more. Zambrano's mainly to blame, but Barrett isn't innocent here. I don't think anybody is arguing Barrett is innocent, but it seems to me more of the blame has to fall on Z for this one... and the way it seems Lou is embracing Z's "passion" while sticking it to Barrett is infuriating.

Really, where was Yosh? I thought Yosh moved to the visitor's clubhouse.

Not if we have to watch Murton. Trade him while you can. He's a bad outfielder, no real speed and can't hit with men on. Pagan can fill his role and can play defense. But Pagan can't hit at all. He hits as well as Murton and at least has some power, which warning track Matt doesn't seem to have. Other than some OBP what does Murton add? Defense-no. Speed-no. power-no. Just what does he add other than misguided belief that he'll be some kind of star? You do realize Murton adds about 60 points of OBP, the single most important offensive stat? Pagan's power isn't enough to make him an average hitter, just cause he doesn't get on base at all. At any rate, I'd be real surprised if we don't see Floyd hit the DL after today's events. Odds are pretty good we suspend Barrett for a while, and we can't really afford a short bench. I really think we'll DL Floyd and bring up Soto.

I've heard of beating yourself, but I haven't heard of following yourself. :D Hey, is it somehow my fault I started drinking mid-game today? Mr. Hancock would claim it's the Cubs' fault for putting you in a mindframe to get drunk. :D And the gas stations' fault for selling me a case a week ago when it was obvious from my jersey that I was a Cubs fan.

The more I think about it, I think Barrett deserves blame! Carlos went up to the clubhouse while MB was on the bench. Obviously, Barrett ended up following Z and a second fight ensued. That was unnecessary. MB has played horribly this year. Hell, his stupidity turned an already bad outing into a rout (coupled with some of the other dumb things he's done in recent games...) Would Barrett have followed Z down there if Z hadn't started the first fight? Or if Lou had taken control? And who knows? Maybe Z was shouting profanities about Barrett's mother from the clubhouse? Long story short, Z at the very least antagonized Barrett and goaded him into the first confrontation. Was Barrett wrong to follow Barrett to the clubhouse? Absolutely. But this wasn't near so much his fault as Lou is pretending it is. How exactly do you propose Lou 'taking control'. Something such as telling Z to get the [heck] out of there and expecting Michael Barrett to behave like a grown man? I dunno, send Z off, grab Barrett, give him a good yell to "sit the hell down right there" instead of letting him wander around? Pretty much the same way I take control of my drunk friends when they start fighting? The one that always works? I've heard of beating yourself, but I haven't heard of following yourself. :D Hey, is it somehow my fault I started drinking mid-game today?

The more I think about it, I think Barrett deserves blame! Carlos went up to the clubhouse while MB was on the bench. Obviously, Barrett ended up following Z and a second fight ensued. That was unnecessary. MB has played horribly this year. Hell, his stupidity turned an already bad outing into a rout (coupled with some of the other dumb things he's done in recent games...) Would Barrett have followed Z down there if Z hadn't started the first fight? Or if Lou had taken control? And who knows? Maybe Z was shouting profanities about Barrett's mother from the clubhouse? Long story short, Z at the very least antagonized Barrett and goaded him into the first confrontation. Was Barrett wrong to follow Z to the clubhouse? Absolutely. But this wasn't near so much his fault as Lou is pretending it is. Edit: Gah!

I'm not trading DLee for anything less than enough to overhaul our entire roster with top prospects.

It really looks like it's all Carlos to me. Barrett stepped toward Zambrano, but he didn't really seem all that aggressive to me. It certainly didn't look like Michael was going to take a swing or anything. Z should be suspended and fined. Barrett charged at Z and then Z shoved Barrett. Lol Barret did not charge at Z. He might have stepped towards him but definatly didnt charge lol. From the TBS feed, it looks like BarRett charged Z. Watch the Comcast feed where you can get a good look at it.

From that angle it looks like Barrett took a step towards Z, but you can't tell for sure if it was an agressive step like he was going to hit him, an agressive step like he was going to get into his face, or neither. Z reacted too quickly for us to find out. And do people really worry this much about a little fighting? I'm not trying to support it and there should be some ramifications, but people tend to get passionate about sports like this. I know just playing H.S. football there were times in practice me and a guy could get into each others faces similar to that. At the end of the day we were still fine and we both were gonna do what was best for the team. . Yeah, I've been there before. I laid out a teammate with a headbutt just to prove a point. Funny thing was, he was wearing a helmet, and I wasn't. The point was taken, though. And we were fine again within the week.

Randy Bush probably had a press conference because situations like this demand upper management oversight. Lou has obviously lost control of the team, and since Jim apparently wasn't available, Randy was the next best thing. At first I assumed they'd traded Barrett inside of two minutes, though.

It's not warrented? For round 2? Maybe. I can't know if he was being yelled at from the clubhouse or not... but round one wouldn't have happened if not for Z instigating it. Though honestly I blame Lou for not handling it after one fight. But Z's getting a free pass for his "passion" and Barrett is getting blasted. It's a double standard and considering each of their lackluster performances to this point, I hardly see the justification for it.

Barrett is definately being made the scapegoat for this one.

Oh Christ... that last line isn't gonna help the damn team.

Please tell me you're kidding. Oh, sorry. I guess I wasn't being sarcastic enough. My sarcasm detector could be broken, too, though. You never know. Well just to be safe, I'll throw in extra "!!!" after each sentence next time. Include one of these: @#$ OMG!!! WHAT A GREAT @#$ IDEA!!! Perfect. @#$ :lol:

Barrett and Z threw down. It wasn't pretty.

Please tell me you're kidding. Oh, sorry. I guess I wasn't being sarcastic enough. My sarcasm detector could be broken, too, though. You never know. Well just to be safe, I'll throw in extra "!!!" after each sentence next time. Include one of these: @#$ OMG!!! WHAT A GREAT @#$ IDEA!!!

Please tell me you're kidding. Oh, sorry. I guess I wasn't being sarcastic enough. My sarcasm detector could be broken, too, though. You never know. Well just to be safe, I'll throw in extra "!!!" after each sentence next time.

Please tell me you're kidding. Oh, sorry. I guess I wasn't being sarcastic enough.

A team with Aramis, A-Rod, and Adam Dunn would NEVER win. No, they'd win 19-1 or lose 1-0. I mean, that's why they're not real gamers.

God, why can't Aramis be more clutch? All his homers come in this sort of situation.

Why in god's name would anyone want him to? True. But this is the 2nd time in 3 years he's been one of the few reasons to give a crap. Aramis isn't doing too shabby.

That's what I was talking about. I've seen it in replays, but I never knew when, and why it happened. Why did it happen? Though it is encouraging. Because Bonds and Kent hated each other? Though I think in particular Jeff Kent was yelling at David Bell. I know there were others that happened, and supposedly one or two huge fights, but this one was caught on camera and presumably forced the manager and players to go through the same scrutiny that will follow this one.

Again, for what it's worth, in 2002 there was a very public fight between Barry Bonds and Jeff Kent. The Giants record before that fight was 42-34, a .553 winning percentage. The record after the fight was 53-32, a .624 winning percentage.