Rob

You're saying this like you have. i've heard him say it before. And everybody else has heard him say we'd "try him out" at SS.

The unintentional comedy value of this thread has gone through the roof. Calling Cedeno up has already been worth it, and going hitless the rest of the season wouldn't change that for me.

Muskat? :lol: You only have as much credibility as your sources... using wikipedia, Muskat, and the infamous "knowledgable people" isn't really helping you make your point.

Or just disappears completely. Neither will happen i'm not wrong. Being stubborn isn't the same as being right.

Before insulting people you should probably heed your own advice first. Theriot is not a natural SS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Theriot This is what it says at your link. Haha, I'm not getting into this debate, but check the edit history on that wiki page. Someone just changed it to say "a natural at second base". Oh, it was definately me. I was just proving that using wikipedia as a source is about as rookie a mistake as there is.

Before insulting people you should probably heed your own advice first. Theriot is not a natural SS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Theriot This is what it says at your link.

Cedeno hasn't been hitting for as much power recently, I'll grant... but he's still batting .310 in his last 10 games. And why on earth are you using errors to judge a player's defense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought. Why on earth are you using batting average to judge a player's offense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought. :wink: His defense doesn't worry me one bit. Great range don't mean crap when he drops the ball every time he gets to it, and considering the hitter paradise in Iowa's AAA league, I don't agree with this call up one bit. Need I remind you we have a right fielder who lives life day to day. Take a look at his probabilistic model of range page from last year. Even in a year where he made a uncharacteristically high number of errors, he did enough on balls that nobody else would get to to make him right about the definition of average defensively. Theriot isn't even that good. And Sean, I just didn't feel like crunching the numbers myself. I know it's lazy, but so am I. Seems to me like Cedeno is slightly above average ranging to his right yet terrible at ranging to his left(which makes sense cause that's what I remeber), while Theriot is much better at ranging to his left and the difference sems to make Theriot a better SS. Besides how many of Cedeno's errors are 2-base errors, compared to Theriot's minimal errors. Theriot played two games for a total of 17 innings at SS last year. If that's not small sample size, I don't know what is. Besides, anybody who's watching the Cubs can tell that Theriot doesn't have hardly anything in the way of range.

Cedeno hasn't been hitting for as much power recently, I'll grant... but he's still batting .310 in his last 10 games. And why on earth are you using errors to judge a player's defense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought. Why on earth are you using batting average to judge a player's offense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought. :wink: His defense doesn't worry me one bit. Great range don't mean crap when he drops the ball every time he gets to it, and considering the hitter paradise in Iowa's AAA league, I don't agree with this call up one bit. Need I remind you we have a right fielder who lives life day to day. Take a look at his probabilistic model of range page from last year. Even in a year where he made a uncharacteristically high number of errors, he did enough on balls that nobody else would get to to make him right about the definition of average defensively. Theriot isn't even that good. And Sean, I just didn't feel like crunching the numbers myself. I know it's lazy, but so am I.

Cedeno hasn't been hitting for as much power recently, I'll grant... but he's still batting .310 in his last 10 games. And why on earth are you using errors to judge a player's defense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought.

Oh, you crazy broad. :wink: I'm not sold on Lopez having anything resembling real power, even for a SS. 2005 seems likely to be his career year, and it's mostly park-driven. That being said, perhaps a move to a contender would help him focus a bit more, and if he could, he could be a slight upgrade over Theriot at short. He'd cost us more on defense, but he'd be pretty likely to sustain a higher enough OBP to be a net positive for us, production wise. I would question the deal based on how much talent and how much money we'd be on the hook for, though. The problem in my eyes is that Cedeno has the potential to put up comparable offensive numbers overall (a bit more slugging, a bit less OBP), while being a large boost to us defensively. And since he was just called up according to ESPN, I'd rather take my chances with Cedeno.

Side note: Given how ridiculously non-agressive Quade has been at third base, how on earth do we know it wasn't him holding Murton up? Even forgetting the Murton stuff for a moment, Quade has been a huge failure as 3B coach, IMHO. I'd say it's pretty likely he had some part in the screwups there.

Teixeira has played RF previously, so it's hardly a stretch to put him out there, sign him to an extension, and have him move to first in three years when DLee's contract runs out. Hard to do, but much more logical than signing ARod and moving him to a position where his defense isn't near as valuable, then trading off one of our best hitters.

Right now, I'm in a standard 12 team h2h league with OBP and IP added. As of this week, I am in first place with a 114-61-17 record, good for a .638 winning percentage. The guy in second place is 14.5 games back at the moment. He's actually closer to the guy in 9th place than he is to me. I guess that's just the benefit of a nine week winning streak, though. 2/3 of the way through the season, how is your team holding up?

This is horrible. Hopefully MLB steps up and helps take care of that poor family.

I don't think EPatt would be too terribly extended in CF, especially since all I keep hearing about him is that he's gonna have to move into the OF anyways. And Botts slots in nicely at the 1B vacancy.

Personally, while I think they'll go straight after Pie, I think they'd fold on that demand if we held off and offered extra prospects. And since I still feel Marshall is outperforming what we can reasonably expect of him by a decent margin, I'd be willing to put him in the deal and see what a guy like Gallagher or Holliman could do as our fifth starter until Guzman gets healthy. Veal, Marshall, EPatt, Huseby, and Soto might bankrupt our farm system, but I think it would be worthwhile to get Teixeira.

It's definitely going to cost more than Soto, EPatt, and Veal to get Tex, but I would absolutely love to have him on the team. Could you imagine a lineup like this: 1. Soriano LF 2. Derosa 2b 3. Lee 1b 4. Aram 3b 5. Teixeira RF 6. Jones CF 7. Cedeno/Theriot SS 8. Hill/Kendall 9. pitcher =P~ 1. Soriano LF 2. Lee 1b 3. Teixeira RF 4. Aram 3b 5. DeRosa 2B 6. Jones CF 7. Cedeno/Theriot SS 8. Hill/Kendall 9. pitcher Much better Soriano LF Lee 1B Teixeira RF Ramirez 3B DeRosa 2B Jones CF Cedeno/Theriot SS P Hill/Kendall Even better still. :wink:

It's definitely going to cost more than Soto, EPatt, and Veal to get Tex, but I would absolutely love to have him on the team. Could you imagine a lineup like this: 1. Soriano LF 2. Derosa 2b 3. Lee 1b 4. Aram 3b 5. Teixeira RF 6. Jones CF 7. Cedeno/Theriot SS 8. Hill/Kendall 9. pitcher =P~ Yeah, I'm fairly certain it would cost more than that. But I think those three would be useful to the Rangers in pretty short time, and would be a very good starting point. I'd be willing to part with Huseby as well... and I think that might get it done. All four of those guys would immediately jump into the Rangers top 10 prospects.

Eerily enough, I was home last night without internet access, and did not see this thread. However, I had a pretty cool nightmare last night where somebody pulled my skin off. Modzilla has powers. Beware.

I'm not too terribly interested in acquiring Glaus to play short or right. Don't get me wrong, I know he'd be a pretty huge upgrade over what we've gotten at either position this year. Looking just at short though, I'm not convinced that the gain on offense is enough to cover for the loss in defense paired with the cost of acquiring him (both the money and the talent being shipped to Toronto). If we could get him on the cheap, I'd jump on the bandwagon in a moment. Going forward though, I'm not convinced that this is the best thing for the team a couple years from now. Glaus in RF did get me thinking, though. While I do think that would be an upgrade, there's somebody else I'd much rather acquire to play out of position. Mark Teixeira is available, under contract for one more season, and a beast on offense. He has previous RF experience, and was about the definition of average defensively out there. Considering the needs of Texas, we might be able to get a deal done involving Soto, EPatt, and Veal... all three of whom I'm sure the Cubs will screw up anyways. Meph, what do the numbers say about this idea?

It proably makes up for a game where he pitched good and got no run support somewhere along the line. There was a start, I think in late April or early May, where Lilly pitched against Kyle Lohse at Wrigley and lost 1-0 after pitching a fantastic game.

The NL leaderboard for WPA. 1. Barry Bonds - 3.53 2. Aramis Ramirez - 3.17 3. Prince Fielder - 3.06 4. Brad Hawpe - 3.02 5. Albert Pujols - 2.94 6. Troy Tulowitzky - 2.64 7. Chase Utley - 2.54 8. Todd Helton - 2.54 9. Miguel Cabrera - 2.31 10. Adrian Gonzalez - 2.07 11. Ken Griffey Jr. - 1.94 12. Derrek Lee - 1.94 Just food for thought.

I have no problem with picking up Greinke to be in the bullpen this year with an eye on giving him a shot at the rotation next year. I'd be willing to part with EPatt and a decent prospect. Dotel, on the other hand, isn't worth near what he'd cost... especially when considering that our bullpen isn't our problem. Dempster, Marmol, Howry, Wuertz, and Ohman are all more than adequate when used correctly, and we're looking at possibly having Wood and Gooz return for the stretch run. Bottom line, this is a good bullpen. Wasting our tradeable assets on guys for the bullpen this year is not going to be an efficient use of resources. Those guys should be getting shipped out to help fill the voids at SS, C, CF, and RF... not for a fungible setup man.

The reason it took so long to get rid of Dusty Baker was that the fans had deemed him untouchable after 2003. And in retrospect, it wasn't his brilliant moves that had gotten us there, we had done it in spite of him. I'm going to be smarter this time. What you do is up to you.

Nolan Ryan in 1987 threw 211.2 innings with a 2.76 ERA. That ERA was the best in the entire league among qualified hurlers, yet he went 8-16. Anybody paying the slightest bit of attention 20 years ago would have realized then exactly how useless a stat wins is to evaluate a pitcher.