BigbadB

Hendry is returning Dombrowski's call in this scenario. It's the Tigers who are calling on us for relief help. Or are you trying to tell me that Hendry initiated a call to the Tigers to see if they might need relief help? And technically, Hendry gets the first laugh when Detroit asks for bullpen help. Yeah, doesn't just about every team in baseball need bullpen help?

What do the Cubs need? Well, the Tigers have two guys that could fill the Cubs most glaring hole. A - Hendry doesn't seem to think it's a glaring hole. B - So do the Yankees, but no one's suggesting that we trade for Cap'n Jetes or ARod. The Tigers went out and got a SS early in the off-season b/c they recognized the need to get Guillen out of there (and simultaneously get rid of Casey) and added Renteria. I don't think they did that b/c they didn't think they'd get Cabrera - I think they went into the off-season with the intention of creating one of the best lineups in baseball. They replaced their holes at 3B and 1B and did just that. I just don't see how anyone can suggest with a straight face that Hendry call up DD and say "you want a RP? Give us Renteria or take a hike." No one is saying Hendry should do that. The Tigers called the Cubs for relief help. If they aren't willing to part with Renteria for bullpen help, farm help and salary relief help, then there's really nothing else to discuss.

Excellent! =D> His plan appears to be swing and swing often. Walks clog the bases, dude. :good:

Exactly. They contacted Hendry, not the other way around. If they want bullpen help, we can help them with that. If they need some salary relief to go along with bullpen help, we can help them with that as well. The salary relief allows them to spend even more to fix their pen. But, if Renteria is untouchable to Detroit, there's really nothing more to talk about. "Good luck, I hope you find the bullpen help you need from someone else."

It's Joey Votto. In response to Jay Bruce getting sent down....... "The more things change, the more they stay the same" Tom Kiefer (Cinderella)

Have you seen their bullpen? They will lose a lot of games late due to the lack of any quality relief. The one thing they can afford to part with is offense. Inge has been on the market all offseason and no one wants him. Teams need 3b's out there, but they aren't willing to spend talent and the contract money necessary to take on Inge or Crede. If Detroit wants relief help, it will cost them their SS, otherwise I'd tell them to keep looking. We could happily send them a SS back in exchange if that really left them without a SS. Why would they trade their SS? Because when they traded for their SS, they did it before they knew they were getting Cabrera, Willis and Jacque Jones. Had the Tigers traded for Cabrera and Willis first, they probably would have spent more effort improving the pen instead of trading Omar Infante for Jacque Jones and farm talent to Atlanta for Renteria. Renteria isn't a difference maker for this offense. They will score enough runs to win games with or without Renteria. Renteria cannot pitch the 7th, 8th or 9th inning, however, which very well could be Detroit's undoing. while i definitely agree with this post...i still would be shocked if they swapped renteria I'd be shocked too. But, that's the only player I would be talking to Detroit about if they want relief help. I'd rather go into the season with one of the best bullpens in baseball rather than a deeper bench and a weaker bullpen.

If I had to guess, Detroit overspent their budget this offseason. They can't move Inge, so they may not have any money to spend to improve the pen. Inge and Renteria appear to have comparable contracts.

Have you seen their bullpen? They will lose a lot of games late due to the lack of any quality relief. The one thing they can afford to part with is offense. Inge has been on the market all offseason and no one wants him. Teams need 3b's out there, but they aren't willing to spend talent and the contract money necessary to take on Inge or Crede. If Detroit wants relief help, it will cost them their SS, otherwise I'd tell them to keep looking. We could happily send them a SS back in exchange if that really left them without a SS. Why would they trade their SS? Because when they traded for their SS, they did it before they knew they were getting Cabrera, Willis and Jacque Jones. Had the Tigers traded for Cabrera and Willis first, they probably would have spent more effort improving the pen instead of trading Omar Infante for Jacque Jones and farm talent to Atlanta for Renteria. Renteria isn't a difference maker for this offense. They will score enough runs to win games with or without Renteria. Renteria cannot pitch the 7th, 8th or 9th inning, however, which very well could be Detroit's undoing.

Okay, I timed how long it would take for Hendry to find out if Detroit would be willing to part with Renteria. 30 seconds. 8 seconds for Detroit's GM to pick up the phone, 12 seconds to explain that we have oodles of relievers but a need to upgrade SS and 10 seconds to decide whether Detroit is willing to part with their SS to improve their pen. If Hendry has 3 months worth of time to salivate over Brian Roberts, surely he has 30 seconds to ask about Renteria.

Neither Inge or Thames do anything for me. We have Soriano and Fukudome locked up in the outfield corners and Murton and Ward to back them up and Ramirez and Lee are solid on the infield corners with DeRosa and Ward to back them up, making either of these guys nothing more than bench fodder. I'm not willing to part with an ace reliever for a pinch hitter. Renteria is the guy the Cubs should be targeting. If I had to guess, Detroit has spent beyond their means this offseason in acquiring Renteria, Cabrera and Willis while sapping their farm system. We can provide a bit of salary relief and farm help by taking Renteria off their hands. The Renteria deal happened well before the Cabrera/Willis deal happened. If the Tigers reversed those deals, I'm guessing they never would have made the Renteria deal after trading for Cabrera and Willis. So, put a package together for Renteria that they would have a tough time saying no to. It's possible they will say no, but it sure doesn't hurt to try. This is a bit of a "go for it" year for Detroit. They stand to lose some talent at the end of this year, so maybe they won't part with Renteria. But, it makes more sense than spending 3+ months trying to trade for a 2b when the glaring hole is on the other side of the 2b bag.

Izturis=All Star Nuff said.

That can't be good for the 'ole trade value. This doesn't mean anything. The starters who are ahead of Gallagher are all stretching out to more innings and the bullpen guys are starting to work more on back to back days. It makes sense to send Gallagher down to get regular work. Gallagher essentially had no shot of winning a SP gig with the Cubs this season with Zambrano, Lilly, Hill, Dempster, Marquis, Lieber and Marshall all ahead of him.

That's where I am at this point, also. If DeRosa isn't an everyday player, then let Patterson share some time at 2nd with DeRosa. For all we know, Patterson can be every bit as good as Brian Roberts and he's already wearing a Cub uniform. Patterson has the patience to draw walks, he has equal power to Roberts, he can swipe bases equally to Roberts and he's hit for average. The only drag on Patterson at this point is his defense, and I think they're giving up on him too early if they move him, to be honest.

Wuertz + for this guys doesn't seem very sensible. It sounds to me as though Lou is infatuated with Hart, which potentially opens the door to trade Wuertz. It would certainly send the message to Baltimore if they went ahead and traded for a CFer now rather than wait any longer on Baltimore to step up to the plate.

I don't think many people are undervaluing what Roberts would bring to the offense. What it sounds like to me is MacPhail/Angelos are asking way too much for Roberts. Why keep playing the game? DeRosa has just as good of an OBP as Roberts. Turn it into a platoon situation at 2nd with Patterson, and the potential is there to get the same production between Patterson and DeRosa as you would/could get from Roberts without having to give up any of the players mentioned so far in the trade rumors. Patterson's career minor league numbers look just like Brian Roberts. How that translates to MLB remains to be seen, but continuing to up the ante for Roberts because Baltimore can afford to be as patient as they want to be is not what I would call good business practice. Patterson/DeRosa make for a nice platoon at 2nd. The thing to remember about the Roberts deal is that Baltimore is attempting to shed some salary. Some of these deals seem to include Payton and his god awful contract. The only way Baltimore is going to shed some of that salary is to sit down at the table and negotiate a fair deal for both teams. The Cubs can provide relief, but not at the expense of the entire farm. Baltimore will suck whether they trade Roberts or keep him. It doesn't appear right now as though they really want to trade him, so now is the time to start getting Patterson and DeRosa ready to share time at 2b. Unless or until a trade actually happens, Hendry should not waste another moment of time drooling all over Brian Roberts' baseball card. It's time to get down to the business of being ready to start the season with what you have. I agree with you, Carolina, that this is the time to go for it. However, going for it doesn't necessarily mean throw caution to the wind and make stupid trades.

To me, that line up looks like walk Pujols and Glaus and take your chances with everyone else. :wink:

The only thing keeping St. Louis' line up from being the worst in the NL is San Francisco's line up.

Last year's stats. I don't have full data, but these are the amount of ABs + BBs by order in Cub lineup. #1 757 #2 735 #3 716 #4 698 #5 683 #6 669 #7 655 #8 628 #9 602 I am sure some of you have sacrifice and HBP data to do a better job of this. But the amount of ABs that Theriot would take from far superior hitters is ridiculous. David Eckstein gives me hope that this is not fatal. Just stupid. Here are the numbers by Plate Appearance (Cubs 2007): 1st-765 2nd-745 3rd-729 4th-709 5th-695 6th-682 7th-668 8th-648 9th-627

Speaking of lightning in a bottle, I was glancing at Felipe Lopez' numbers earlier today. It looks like Christian Guzman will win the SS job in Washington, so Lopez could be trade bait. While he most certainly isn't high on my list of players I'd like to acquire, he's had a couple of decent years prior to last year. Is he any good defensively? It looks like he has 20 HR power if you get him back into the NL Central. It looks like he has 40 SB speed as well. If it didn't cost much to pick him up, I think he might provide more value than Theriot.

Gee, and Baltimore fans wonder why they suck every year in and out. Until Angelos stop meddling around, Baltimore won't be a very good baseball team for awhile. Angelos is a George Steinbrenner wanna-be. Even if all the rumored players are involved in the trade, Baltimore will still suck even if they make this trade. When the smoke clears and Roberts is traded to the Cubs, all Baltimore will have gotten for Miguel Tejada, Erik Bedard and Brian Roberts is Adam Jones and a bunch of guys who may or may not piece together a decent major league career. There is plenty of reason for Angelos to balk on this deal. I say screw it if they don't like the offers currently out there. Promote Eric Patterson and let him platoon at 2b with DeRosa. This frees up DeRosa to sub at other positions and slowly grooms Patterson at 2b, mostly facing RHP. The combination of Patterson and DeRosa is probably not all that far off from what Roberts can provide, but for less money over less years. When Baltimore is in last place on July 31 and they still have Brian Roberts, and Roberts is miserable and is speaking loudly that he wants to be traded, maybe the demands will soften and maybe Patterson will have increased his trade value.

I remember that from the cubs.com board. I'm one of those who thought the Giants fans were all wet. I soon saw the error of my ways. Reds44 will too. Yeah, I am guilty as well. I fell into the "he's a player's manager" and "everybody loves to play for Dusty" hype. Little did I know that it was just the crappy players who loved playing for Dusty, because he actually gave crappy players plenty of playing time. I suppose the guys who like to swing away like Dusty as well, because he wasn't bashful about giving everyone a green light to do just that. Furthermore, there really wasn't any lockdown evidence that he abused pitchers, at least not enough to convince me that he would hurt the team more than he would help the team.

Since I like to consider myself an expert, I better get my prediction in. 8 days, 3 hours and 10 minutes from now, Brian Roberts will be a Cub.

The RBI race will likely come down to Lee and Ramirez, not Ramirez and Soriano. With the line up you suggested, Soriano will receive a lot of IBB's when 1b is open. Opposing pitchers will much rather pitch to Pie, Soto and Theriot much more than they would pitch to Soriano. That would be a good thing if Pie and Soto are being productive, not so good if they aren't.

That list is almost as inspiring as the list of 2b's the Cubs have employed over the past 2 seasons. The only player on that list that is any good is Stewart, and he just started playing 2b in Spring Training. I just threw that package out there for discussion. Colorado is in a position to go for it right now. And that's what they should be doing.

Why isn't Colorado getting in on the Brian Roberts action? Seems simple to me: Baltimore receives Ian Stewart and Franklin Morales Colorado gets Brian Roberts Colorado increases their chances of winning the NL West, Baltimore gets a couple of key pieces to their rebuilding project.