BigbadB

Ah, apparently there is such a thing as "too much pitching".

Wasn't Kenny Lofton on that Indians team? He would fall under the borderline guys, I would think. Whoops. I guess he wasn't on that year's team. It appears he played a season in Atlanta and then went back to Cleveland.

Once the precedent is set, there is no stopping other teams and players from making similar arrangements. The player's union will not stand for this. Opt out clauses can be found in newer contracts that protect a team or player from uncomfortable situations. Contracts are meant to be honored, and the player's union will fight for the player anytime the contract is not honored, whether it's mutual or not.

My stupid brother wants to resign Prior. I think it's mainly because I bought him a Mark Prior autographed jersey a couple years ago and now he doesn't play for the Cubs so he wants it to be worth something again. He also said that DeRosa sucks and we should get a replacement him, so yeah. He's a buffoon Get your brother a DeRosa jersey. Problem solved.

I don't think Hardy and Hart are guys that San Diego would be interested in. They want cheap guys for today and tomorrow. Hardy and Hart must be getting close to their big paydays.

Haha. I was thinking that exact thing late last evening and after my last post in this thread. The Cubs would be doing themselves a favor to get into the Peavy talks just to rope idiots like me right back in. Not that I actually need to be roped back in, but I will admit that I have needed to take a break from this club for the last few weeks. Peavy discussion definitely gets my attention, however. :shock:

But really, do you think the Cubs are serious players for Peavy? It would be nice, but I highly doubt it. They ought to be serious players. If the Cardinals are out and Houston doesn't have the goods, and the Dodgers will have to sell the entire farm, that leaves Atlanta and Chicago as the prime players that fall within Peavy's interests. Atlanta is rebuilding. They don't seem like the ideal candidates to lure Peavy to Atlanta. What good does it do to pay Peavy all that money to pitch every 5 days with a team that probably won't be any better than .500 next year? That leaves the Cubs. While the Cubs don't have quality to offer, they do have quantity. They also have the resources to take on extra payroll if the Padres wanted to attach another contract to the deal (Greene or Giles, for example). Will they be serious players? Hard to say. But, they'd be stupid not to play the game. They were stupid for not playing the game with all the other talented players whose free agent years passed right by Chicago. Guys like Beltran and Guerrero. Instead of overspending on guys like Soriano, go out and get the guys who are deserving of the contracts they are receiving and give this team, this city and these fans what they deserve.

This is a weird season. Just as easily as the Bears can beat one of the best teams in football, they can lose to the worst team in football. The parity is beyond anything I've ever seen.

I've heard Grace do a lot of games with AZ and I actually have grown to like him. I think he'd be fine joining Len in the booth if he's actually available.

What, no Brad Johnson love? :lol:

Where the top money teams finish probably has little to do with how much they spend. They will spend regardless of how they did the previous year. Those teams expect to be the playoffs each year. With that said, I don't think that changes the climate of the free agent market. How it affects the Cubs is really hard to say. I agree with many that Wood will be in Chicago next year. I'm not sure how much of a priority it will be to bring Dempster back. I think everyone would be in agreement that if Hendry has a way to get Peavy from San Diego, that would be better than resigning Dempster. I seriously doubt that they have the funding to do both. Although, if Peavy is not doable, I can see Chicago getting a slight discount on Dempster compared to what he might get on the market.

Yep. Offensive Line is still going to be the top priority in the draft next year. Orton and Forte locking up their positions will be a huge plus going into next year. Forte clearly has the capability of being a 1000+ yard RB, but he needs guys to open holes for him. Imagine how good Orton might be with 2 quality threats at receiver. I agree with Goony that there really isn't anywhere for Grossman to go next year. No matter where he goes, he'll be a back up. Might as well back up in a system where you already know all the plays. But, if he leaves, not many will shed a tear. Reading through this gamethread, I had a tough time figuring out who everyone was rooting for. A lot of names being thrown around (Bowman) that I have to look up on football-reference. Weird. Frustrating day of football for me. I decided to stay home to watch games yesterday. The morning game was Chargers/Bills. Of course, the power was out for that game, so I got Pitt/Cincy instead. No other morning games. The two afternoon games were Lions/Houston and Oakland/NYJ. Pathetic.

I was a Hendry hater in the early days of his tenure as GM. I agree with Erik that he got lucky with some of the deals he made. And I also agree with Pinger that he has probably learned from his mistakes. There seems to be more emphasis on improving the horrible BB/9 and OBP rates this team was consistently putting up year after year. I'm not a hater anymore, but he's far from being a successful GM. For whatever reason, he has been able to get ownership to release the purse strings. Money has turned this organization from a failure to a contender. Unfortunately, money isn't the only answer to a successful program. Player development is way behind where it should be. If they can fix that problem, I'd actually be on board with Hendry and would be hopeful that it would be an awesome ride.

Marshall, Hill, Fontenot, and Pie anyone? Take out Fontenot and put in Theriot. San Diego wants to experiment with speed. Maybe even add a bullpen arm of some sort and get Greene added to the deal. As much as we realize that Theriot doesn't provide all that much value, other teams see a guy who hit second most of the year on a team that led the league in runs scored with a decent batting average and OBP. Between the injuries and low BA, San Diego is ready to move on with Greene.

Actually, you are starting with the least likely option. San Diego and LA are not going to make that kind of swap any more than the Cubs would trade their best player to the Cardinals.

Why do I feel like this discussion has just gone in a circle? I find it ironic that the Cubs get listed a lot as a team with a solid chance of winning, since we never win anything.

He's from Northwestern Indiana and grew up a Cubs fan. I pretty much guarantee he's not accepting a trade to the Padres. I'm pretty sure he was a White Sox fan. But baseball is a business. I'm a Cubs fan if I could get more money playing for another team you bet your ass I'm gone. Nevertheless, I basically understand what people are saying here. Agreed on principle. People will typically go where the money is. But, there is no money in San Diego, so I can't see Samardjiza waiving his NTC to go there. Now, because Petco tends to depress overall pitching stats, a guy could go there to extend/advance their career, because a lot of GM's tend to ignore valuable information like park effects. Chris Young will be a perfect example when he departs San Diego. He's going to get big money from someone to be a below average starter.

They have Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy, 2 guys that a lot of teams would love to get their hands on, especially one about to embark on a full rebuilding phase. Also, Im thinking that the Pads will try to package Peavy and Khalil Green like the Marlins did with Becket and Mike Lowell, in which if a team wants Peavy, they'l have to take Green as well. Ian Kennedy isn't worth anyone's time. He's a 5th starter. If I am the Padres and I am looking to rebuild, a package involving Cano, Cabrera, Hughes, and a prospect or two for Peavy, Greene(could play 2B), and a prospect isn't looking like that bad of a trade. If that's the case, the Cubs can beat that package. The only worthwhile player in that package is Hughes and, as previously mentioned, the Yankees would be selling low on him. If the Yankees could land Peavy with a package involving Hughes, I don't think you could call it selling low.

Doesn't matter. It's Kevin Towers who will be evaluating packages for Peavy, which is plenty of cause for concern in San Diego.

Might have been a different outcome if Vasher and Peanut were in there.

That is the coverage you would like to run in that situation? The situation Lovie, is that if you keep them in bounds the game is over. It doesn't matter where they are in bounds, game over you win. They could be in bounds @ midfield, at the 30, or at the 1 yard line. It doesn't matter, the game is over. The only thing that beats you is a sideline pass were the receiver can get out of bounds. So you guard the sticking sideline..bracket the damn reciever! Is this guy for real? I cannot believe the stupidiy of this coaching staff, specfically Lovie. Not that the TO would have been called in time, but technically Atlanta had 2 timeouts left. Theoretically they could have passed inbounds and gotten the TO. I don't think that this is possible. Running out of bounds is an automatic clock stoppage. A pass play for 30 yards downfield has officials all over the place. After the catch, there needs to be a tackle or a touch, and then an official would need to see a player calling for a TO. That is much more slowly developing than an automatic clock stoppage by going out of bounds. Probably. But you don't know the exact timing going into the play. I think it's fair to say that the Bears couldn't totally abandon all coverage of the inside route. But biting on the short route -- that one I still cannot understand. On that play, the Bears should have had all 11 guys in protective coverage. They should have had 3 linebackers up at the line and then on the snap drop back into pass coverage. Everybody else should have been guarding the lines and protecting against the Hail Mary. Guys I would consider to put into protective coverage are Wolfe and Hester.

That is the coverage you would like to run in that situation? The situation Lovie, is that if you keep them in bounds the game is over. It doesn't matter where they are in bounds, game over you win. They could be in bounds @ midfield, at the 30, or at the 1 yard line. It doesn't matter, the game is over. The only thing that beats you is a sideline pass were the receiver can get out of bounds. So you guard the sticking sideline..bracket the damn reciever! Is this guy for real? I cannot believe the stupidiy of this coaching staff, specfically Lovie. Not that the TO would have been called in time, but technically Atlanta had 2 timeouts left. Theoretically they could have passed inbounds and gotten the TO. I don't think that this is possible. Running out of bounds is an automatic clock stoppage. A pass play for 30 yards downfield has officials all over the place. After the catch, there needs to be a tackle or a touch, and then an official would need to see a player calling for a TO. That is much more slowly developing than an automatic clock stoppage by going out of bounds.

I agree that it's a longshot that the Pads would be interested in Harden, but I think this is a case where a 3-way deal would be highly workable. I like Harden, but I think he's only as good as Peavy when both are 100%. Peavy's ability to be at or near 100% for most of the season makes him far more valuable than Harden, IMO. Think cheap. Harden would not be cheap enough. I'm not even sure Cano would be cheap enough, although there would be a significant decrease in payroll to add Cano, Hughes and Kennedy in exchange for Peavy. Moores is actually considering taking on an investor to help him keep this team afloat during this messy divorce.

There is a big difference between Rex and Orton. Orton has pocket presence. Rex always looked like a deer caught in the headlights on pass plays, despite being semi-mobile. Rex also has tunnel vision. He is unable to read defenses or the field. For awhile, I almost thought the coaching staff developed pass plays for him that limited his options to 1 single receiver downfield and 1 safety valve (usually a RB out of the backfield). But, after watching Orton, I'm convinced that Rex is just that bad. In defense of Rex, an offensive line that is not good at giving your receivers time to run their routes can do that to a guy. Orton doesn't act like he's afraid to get hit, which is vital to the success of your passing game. I hope he continues to impress.

I can see where you get the impression that I singled out Vanilla since I actually quoted him. I acknowledge that Vanilla was not the only one to go off topic. The debate of who is or isn't allowed to post in game threads is not in game discussion. Start a new thread if you want to discuss that. I don't care who posts in the game threads, I just don't want to weed through a bunch of off topic stuff in a game thread.