wrigley23

funny how you said you were going to put me on ignore. That lasted what...one day? The fact is that roberts has always had a higher obp than soriano. in fact, last year, it was 40 pts higher. Regardless of which lineup he hits in...he will have a higher obp than soriano this year. Why? because he is a patient hitter...a leadoff hitter. Soriano has the mentality of a run producer which lends itself to hitting behind a leadoff hitter so that his tendency for extra base hits actually get utilized. I don't buy the hitting worse argument with risp. It's high time we find out if he has shored up the mental block for the good of the team. I find it comical that you think the Cubs 3 month pursuit of roberts is because they want a #2 hitter. I highly doubt they want to give up 3-4 prospects for a 2-hole hitter. After witnessing a laughable offense in the playoffs last year & an inordinate amount of solo home runs, I find it far more likely they've decided to target a leadoff hitter & covet roberts as a result. Assuming he has been steroid & hgh free since '03...i'm all for it.

out of the 1 hole? No. With better hitters behind him, I would expect it to stay in the upper .300's which puts him in select company in mlb.

what's best for the team is putting on base guys in the top two positions & the extra base hit hitters behind them. I'd like to see if soriano responds to the "need" in this lineup if a leadoff hitter like roberts is acquired. If he does, that is what is best for the team & everyone will be happy. roberts would get on base at a .385 clip, score over 100 runs & soriano would have over 100 rbi's like his extra base hits say he should be getting that he doesn't at leadoff.

Pie does not get on base & for this reason may be his ultimate undoing...see one corey patterson.

this particular thread is about speculating if roberts comes to the cubs. I feel that Obp is the far & away best stat to look at when considering who a leadoff hitter should be followed by a smart baserunner, ability to steal. Roberts clearly has the advantage of getting on base over soriano. Soriano also has a clear edge in driving in runs. So...what it comes down to is...would soriano reverse his fortunes from the past by hitting more consistently in the 3-hole? 5-hole? yes...i think he would. I also think that is best for the Chicago Cubs. I don't see Roberts walking soriano around the bases if soriano singles to lead off the game. I see roberts walking or singling & then soriano or someone else hitting him in more likely. that is my opinion. you have yours. Again, I have only brought it up when someone else has beat the roberts leading off drum or bagging on roberts as a "slight upgrade" or "we don't need him" stuff. I don't feel the need to respond to each & every stat thrown out because I think a majority of it either is not relevant or is not a direct correlation. The soriano not hitting in the clutch is valid & i dispute it because it was several years ago & for a different team w/ a different lineup. I feel soriano has matured as a person & player by giving up 2B & agreeing to play in the OF. there was a time he had a real hangup w/ that. Guess what, he got over it & became a better player. Now, with his leg issues that he had all of last year & now into this year...plus the possible addition of a great leadoff hitter per OBP stats in roberts...it only makes sense to see if it would improve & help balance the lineup. Roberts lh soriano rh fuko lh lee rh aram rh I love the potential w/ the first six slots.

No. I am not.

I am not keeping a post by post comparison so that we can determine a winner. If you are, good luck to you on that. I've read your posts & i disagree w/ most of them. I do not directly respond to them as I work for a living, have kids & quite frankly am just as tired of hearing your nonsense. I'm quite certain many others are tired of your bullying as well. You are not a moderator so i'd quit speaking for them if i were you. The difference between you and I (other than our leadoff opinions) are that I do this without the name calling & bullying. You have started grasping for straws & fighting unfairly. I firmly believe my position in terms of getting roberts & batting him leadoff. I heard what i heard from piniella & i could care less what you think you heard. I guarantee you roberts would lead off if he came to the cubs. I really hope it happens as evidently that is what it would take to shut you up.

he specifically brought it up. you think he brought it up just to do the opposite?

why? because he's the manager of the team in question here. I heard what i heard. I've even listened to it again & stand by my statement. What is with the hostility towards me? I'd suggest you get it dialed down as it's very unflattering.

agreed & i think hitting roberts in front of soriano would do just that.

dexter...you really need to dial it down a notch. I simply don't agree w/ your assessments but the all caps & heavy handedness are really unnecessary. I don't see where OPS is all that important in the lead off spot. The goal is to get on base period & then have 2-5 knock you in. If soriano leads off w/ a double then that extra base hit is better for the team if done w/ someone on. The hang up here is the argument that soriano cannot hit w/ people on. Again, he has been a leadoff hitter for several years now so I don't buy into that argument. Beyond that, it is not what is best for him but what is best for the team. Roberts or another stronger OBP guy hitting in front of soriano makes much more sense than the reverse. This is the model used w/ nearly every other team in major league baseball. Lou is on record saying if a deal is made that soriano would move down.

dexter...everyone knows where you stand on the 2B issue so why are you saying the same thing over & over again?

dexter...everyone knows where you stand on the 2B issue so why are you saying the same thing over & over again?

I would surmise that the reason soriano scored more runs that roberts is because he was in a superior lineup. The o's lineup was made up of an overaging group. Even Tejada has fallen off over time. The only real way to know would be to see roberts in the top spot w/ this lineup behind him...including soriano. It is very clear that Soriano's running ability has been compromised based on last year's numbers & this year's accounts of his health in camp. Roberts is in the prime of his career as shown last year w/ 51 steals & a high .300's obp. I never said anything about hitting soriano 6th. In fact, i would put fuko second & soriano third w/ followed by lee & ramirez. I think we'd have as good a 1-5 as any in baseball & score many runs for our 3-5 pitchers that will need every run we can muster. Here's to hoping we get roberts for as little as possible, the soriano's leg comes around & that derosa's health issues come to resolution. We will need all the improving we can get in order to break the 100-yr cycle.

right but since roberts gets on base at a higher clip, why not a 2-run homer? And if soriano whiffs like he does 25% of the time...we have two more guys who have an opportunity to drive him in.

OBP% is published my mlb & every baseball publication in america. in regards to ops>obp...i agree...for those not hitting leadoff. Ops is certainly a better stat for the 3-6 positions. When you guys say i'm rehashing...i'm responding to a rehash from the other side. I don't post unless it is in responce to a differing opinion. yesterday, somone was saying they hoped the trade was gone for good as it is "a minor upgrade". others piled on saying the same thing. I only responded to that to give it balance. I don't state my opinions any more than the other side of the argument is stating & only in responce to it.

i find it lame that the only reason you can come up with to hit soriano ahead of a real leadoff hitter such as roberts is because "he feels better" there. I've never heard a bigger bunch of crap. Soriano is a major league baseball player and one that is paid $18 mill/yr to do his job. If you recall, he also raised a fuss about not wanting to play in the outfield not so long ago because he was a butcher at 2B. How did that work out? He also didn't want to play CF & although he did not play it well...he ended up helping out the cubs in a pinch last year. It has been a while since he has hit outside of the leadoff spot. Piniella indicated the likelihoood of him moving down is there if a move is made & soriano has said he was open to the idea if need be. I would say the maturity is more present now in his mindset now that he knows the outfield transition helped his career & a potential move to the money spot in the lineup would offer the same. Soriano hitting in roberts makes a lot more sense than the reverse. Roberts certainly gets on base far more than soriano hits leadoff home runs so please don't run out that tired argument.

I find it ironic that others are allowed to state their same dry opinions over & over but since my opinion is different from yours somehow mine is not allowed.

so you are cheering for the chicago soriano's? we are supposed to simply set the entire lineup for soriano? why? so he can have the best year he can? so he can "feel better"? is that what is best for the team? how far did that get us last year? what if soriano decides he'd "feel better" playing 2B? move him & his 30 errors there? Soriano seems to be coming around in that he has offered to move down in the order if lou feels it is best for the team. I would say he is more comfortable with it then you state. His .330 obp & 21 steals were not good enough to advance us in the playoffs last year. Nor were those numbers indicative of the top leadoff players in the game. i personally love him in the 2-hole behind roberts if we are fortunate enough. fuko 3rd followed by lee, ramirez. A strong order would do wonders for the holes that currently exist on this team. I feel we lack a strong top 3 in the rotation which is what you need in the playoffs, a closer & centerfield/ss are weak positions. I think a couple of these things need shored up or we will be fortunate to win the division let alone advance in the playoffs. I look for the brewers to give us all we can handle and I think the reds are improved. both of the other nl divisions are very strong & several teams are at least as good on paper as the Cub...if not better.

for those that think soriano should hit before roberts....do you also think ryan howard should lead off for the phillies & then have utley hit behind him? What about Beltran leading off & reyes hitting behind him? Arod leads off for the yanks & johnny damon hitting him in? The argument is so flawed it is incredible.

spin....closer isn't a position either but all teams have one or are seeking one. same goes for a "set up man", a #1 starter, etc.....

i didn't say career & neither did you. You were wrong. Roberts is a big upgrade at leadoff because he gets on base more and it's like adding a hitter to the lineup as well w/ soriano moving down. If he gets nervous driving runners in then maybe $18 mill/yr & a potential world series bid for a team that has not won it in 100 yrs may serve as some sort of motivation. As far as trading Pie & gallagher for roberts...i doubt pie will be starting beyond the first month of the year with or without roberts & gallagher will not either. When you trade for starting players in the major leagues you have to give up talented minor leaguers. Pie is entering the Corey Patterson zone w/no ability to get on base & even less of actually knowing the ins & outs of a major league strikezone. There is a reason the brutal marlon byrd was targeted for center & may still end up wearing a bear on his sleeve.

sorgi...touche. This franchise has waited 100 yrs. We barely won a division...several NL teams improved in the offseason. The Cub did too...but was it enough? I don't think so. The playoffs were a complete joke. This team has many holes & if it stands pat right now...will not make it to the WS IMO.

if you are a rebuilding franchise, why would you trade one of the more accomplished leadoff hitters in baseball w/ a very reasonable 2-yr contract, 30 yrs of age...for anything less than two solid prospects? If I were them, I'd require pie & gallagher. If i'm hendry...i'd be inclined to pull the trigger in the spirit of "give to get".

I never posted anything about sammy so you have me confused w/ someone else. in regards to roberts, every 2B ranking i've ever seen shows Roberts anywhere from the 3rd best to 6th at worst. I've yet to see DeRosa in the top 20. In regards to the only stat roberts is better than soriano....you can add batting average & steals to OBP. BTW...derosa is being flown back to Chicago for tests. Let's hope for the best for him whether he will be our 2B or not....as a person...my prayers are with him. This only puts more urgency on the situation than was previously there. Not only is DeRosa's health in question...so is Soriano's. There are many holes in this current team. Adding fuko was huge, but IMO is not near enough.