badgercub

Considering they lost 8 starters on offense including their top 3 receivers, both tight ends, their starting full back, and their all everything tailback, I can see why the voters wouldn't put them in the top 25. On the plus side their defense should be much better this year since a lot of guys got experience due to injury last year. Their D-line has drawn comparison to the 2004 line and is at least 8 or 9 deep. On the offensive side the O-line should be good ave. over 6-6 and 319 pounds, they always seem to have a good running back waiting in the wings, their biggest problems will probably occur at WR, we'll see what Marcus Randall El can do if he can keep his nose clean off of the field, and not really having anyone to back up Stocco at QB.

well, at least we know that if hendry respects anyone it's maddux, so hopefully jimbo will pay attention. If it is a dig at the team, then I just lost alot of respect for Maddux. He's as culpable as anyone else of tanking after DLee got hurt. He went from Dr Jeckyll to Mr Hyde after his 5-0 start. He's the last guy to be talking about anyone performing or playing hard on the field. Sometimes the truth hurts. Say what you want about Maddux, but I don't believe for one instant that he gave anything less than 100% out on the field. Even if what he said was directed at the Cubs, it is probably the truth, so what's the big deal? Some people were clamoring for Todd Walker to speak his mind and rip the organization. I think Maddux was just saying that when a team is in the race guys give it that extra effort.

maybe merge this with the other thread

I would be fine with him staying in Iowa and pitching on a regular basis til the end of the season. His main thing is just getting regular work and I doubt he will get regular work in Chicago at this point.

That's the type of thing I'm hoping for. They have money and arms. Even though they don't have a ton of arms, they have a solid number of them, which is very helpful in making deals. Just think of the trading assets they would have if they wouldn't have given up so much for slap nasty. Add Nolasco et al to that list and then you would have some serious depth. And as for the discussion as to who has the greater upside... I would tend to agree with Tim I think Guzman (if healthy) has the most potential.

What percentage of the vote is needed to stay on the ballot?

Location, location, location. Hill's stuff is good enough, always has been. In his other stints with the Cub's his biggest problem has been location. He would fall behind and walk too many batters, when you do that too often even the worst hitter in the ML's can sit on your fastball and you will get hammered. Hill has settled down and has the confidence to go after hitters and not try to nibble and be "too perfect". He is getting ahead in the counts and with that curve is able to get hitters to chase balls off the plate when he gets ahead in the count.

There were many instances where Baker left them in games when the Cubs had a comfortable lead, to throw well in excess of 100+ pitches. I agree there are times when you ride your aces, especially in tight games and coming down the stretch in a pennant race. But when you are up by more than 3 runs heading into the 7th inning, you don't leave your ace in there and wear them out for their next starts.

No. You are sure of that? See my point is all of this is arbitrary! You can't assume for a fact that Baker was the reason for these guys breaking down? Sure I agree 140 pitches in a inning is just way too much, but Wood mechanics being flawed from that start can't be ignored. I don't think it is arbitrary at all. I think it shows a direct correlation between how they were overused in 2003 and the problems suffered since. In 2003 Prior and Wood combined for 32 wins, since then they have 30. What other LOGICAL explanation is there? Haven't most of Prior injuries been fluke injuries? Even when he has been healthy, he has not been the same pitcher that he was in 2003. I believe this may be partially due to his "freak" injuries, but it hasn't helped that Dusty continued to abuse him through those same injuries.

No. You are sure of that? See my point is all of this is arbitrary! You can't assume for a fact that Baker was the reason for these guys breaking down? Sure I agree 140 pitches in a inning is just way too much, but Wood mechanics being flawed from that start can't be ignored. I don't think it is arbitrary at all. I think it shows a direct correlation between how they were overused in 2003 and the problems suffered since. In 2003 Prior and Wood combined for 32 wins, since then they have 30. What other LOGICAL explanation is there?

Bound to? That's awful logic. Why push the matter? I was complaining throughout the season and definitely in Game 2 of the NLCS, and I know I wasn't the only one. I blame Baker for riding Prior (with an Achiles injury!?) and Wood and not at all looking long term. The Cubs were set for a run of a few years with young pitching and Dusty burned it out in 2003. And didn't even get the Cubs to the World Series in 2003. I find it hard to blame Dusty for riding Prior and Wood in 2003, considering that they were the ones that got us to the playoffs. Any manager would have done what Dusty did. Not when you look at specifics. Dusty would continually leave them in games when the Cubs were up by more than 3+ runs. In my earlier example, I believe the Cubs were up 6-0 when he left Wood in to throw 120+ pitches. That is just stupid.

Wood problems were way before Baker You're wrong. In 1999 he had his TJ surgery, which was the culmination of a lifetime's worth of abuse. In 2000 he came back in May, and had your typical "back from elbow surgery" season. From 2001-2003 he made over 90 starts. His current woes began after a 2003 season that saw him throw 3545 pitches, which IIRC was the most of anyone in the league. 2003 also saw him throw the following #'s of pitches in games: 122 on April 12th, 141 pitches on May 10th, 121 on May 15th, 126 on June 29th, 129 on July 9th, 130 on July 19th, and 125 on August 27th. In total, he had 13 starts not including the postseason with more than 120 pitches. Wood's problems begin the season after Baker arrived. There's no way around it. People can talk about mechanics or conditioning all they want, but the way he was worked in 2003 was asking for him to break down. No offense but you can't blame this on Baker. Kerry Wood was bound to break down again because of piss pour mechenics. I agree that 2003 didn't help his cause, but I didn't see any fans complaining when we were thisclose from going to the world series. It's like people complaining about Ozzie letting pitchers complete games in the playoffs and WS, and now his staff looks tired. If you have a chance at the ring all bets are off. Sorry I don't blame Baker for Riding Prior and Wood because every manager would do the same. Those were his strengths that year. you are dead wrong, people were openly questioning what Baker was doing in 2003 by leaving these guys in games for so long. I recall one game in particular, I believe it was in Florida when Baker left Wood in a game to throw well over 120 pitches in 90+ degree heat so he could get a complete game. Dusty thinks too much about the battle which causes him to lose the war. If I recall correctly, Z faded at the end of 2003 due to the fact he had never worked that many innings or thrown that many pitches in a season before.

I don't know about that? Wood problems were way before Baker and has Z really been overworked this year? And most of Prior injuries have been accidents...i.e. Linedrive off his elbow, collision with Giles....Or non-arm problems Achillies heel, Oblique Muscle...Etc... Baker was still part of the decision making process that had Wood pitching from the bullpen at the end of last year instead of having his surgery then. And Z has thrown a lot of pitches this year. I don't have the numbers, but I don't think he's thrown under 100 pitches most of the year, and he's near the top of pitcher abuse points. And in 2003, Prior threw a ton. His injury actually helped him get a break, if I remember right. And did it really matter if Wood got surgery a month earlier? He still never really made it back for 2006. And Z is going to throw a lot of pitches. He's a power pitcher that walks and K's alot of batters. It's unavoidable unless he learns a bit more control. Its one thing to throw "a lot of pitches." Its entirely another to lead the league in pitches thrown almost every year. Can you show me the stats that say Z leads the league in pitches thrown every year ? I can't believe you are even going to try and argue this point.

Is there a link to the full article? I'm becoming a big fan of Mr. St. John. You have to be a subscriber. I don't know if i get a free online subscription with my regular one or not, so I am just reading the hard copy. The article was making the point that a manager doesn't really have a direct impact on wins and losses when looking at in game decision making (other than consistently leaving pitchers in too long) but cited Dusty for his horrible lineups.

Here is another quote from the article: "Take the case of Chicago Cubs manager Dusty Baker, who once argued that "players who walk clog up the bases." That led him to ask the front office to get rid of such patient hitters as Mark Bellhorn, who went on to become an important cog in Boston's World Series winning team. In 2002 (the year before Mr. Baker got there), the Cubs drew 585 walks, sixth-best in the NL. Last year they drew 419, last in the NL. Those 166 walks far outweigh all his decisions about pinch hitting, or whether to have a player bunt - and effectively negated the breakout performance of MVP candidate Derrek Lee." --Allen St. John

I don't know about that? Wood problems were way before Baker and has Z really been overworked this year? And most of Prior injuries have been accidents...i.e. Linedrive off his elbow, collision with Giles....Or non-arm problems Achillies heel, Oblique Muscle...Etc... Zambrano has thrown an ave. of 112 pitches per outing this year, that is tops in the Majors. In 2003 Prior threw more pitches per start, 113 than any other pitcher and Wood ave. 110. Coincidence or not, you decide. While Z may be able to handle the workload, why take the chance, this team is going nowhere.

Even the Wall St. Journal has an article in it detailing the ineptitude of Baker. Don't have a link I read it in the actual paper this morning. Article talks about his inability to fill out the line up card and how his mishandling of Prior and Wood contributed to their injury problems, also raises concern over how he has and continues to overwork Z.

Atlanta would probably pull him back. If they were looking to trade with Boston, they probably don't have any interest in a trade from the Cubs, and I'm not sure Hendry has any interest in matching the Red Sox offer. This would just annoy both the Boston GM and Atlanta GM, since the Cubs have nothing to gain by blocking and no realistic chance to trade with Atlanta. Hendry should look into it though, and if he gets a sense that Atlanta would let him go for nothing, or make a trade that helps the Cubs, go for it. Just about everyone is put on irrevocable waivers with the chance that if there is a deal to be made they would slip to that team. Waiver deals for big time players are extremely rare because they always get blocked by another contender and are pulled back off of waivers.

I am totally opposed to the idea of thinking of counting Miller in addition to the fact that he is a free agent after the season and is not even under the Cubs control. So unless Hendry can sign him to another cheap one year deal and give him a chance to make the team in Spring Training, his name should be nothing but an afterthought.

I don't think either one of them will get that much money or that many years. Soriano might get a 4 year deal, but I think Lee will probably get 3 years. I believe that initial indication are Carlos Lee will be seeking 5 and 75, or an ave. of 15 million a year (He already turned down 4/48 from the Brewers). And in a year with not much else out there by way of free agency I think he may get it. With the Nationals not trading Soriano I have a feeling they will do everything in their power to get him signed before free agency which could drive Lee's value even higher.

Did somebody say crack? http://www.uvasportsfanatic.com/tyrone%20biggums.jpg Crack and Chapelle, I love it. Great reference

Nice post, couldn't agree more. Hendry has taken a team that showed some promise in 2003 and totally destroyed any chance they have of competing in the near future. I fear things are going to get worse before they get better. We haven't hit bottom yet.

With some of these posts defending Hendry's moves and saying crappy players are not being overpaid, I am beginning to think maybe the Trib is planting some posters on this forum, as they have in others, to try and create some positive spin. Thank goodness the majority of posters in this forum have the analytical ability to realize how badly Hendry's moves are affecting this organization well into the future. If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck.......

I thought Hawkins was on the DL

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