badgercub

Like others have said, Rusch would have to be included in some multiplayer deal, most likely. ARam, Jones, Rusch, and ? for ARod and a minor leaguer. Just throwing that out there as an example of who might take him.

You may want to hide, I saw the bad joke police around here earlier. :wink: I know it was bad, but I couldn't resist. I actually was surprised you hadn't posted something similar. :)

I don't think anybody would want Rusch, but we can always pray that some GM values him as much as Hendry does. The one thing you could consider is that if Jim wanted to get rid of Glendon, he could force another team to take Rusch in part of a package for players they might actually want. The problem with that is that Jim would have to realize that Glendon is bad. Ah, the "Greater Fool Theory"

I think they should get him, just so he could be known as "Walker, Texas Ranger" maybe he could even get his own T.V. show.

actually... to me it has sounded like he wants to stay because he thinks that the arent to far off from contending. Unfortunatly I have not quotes from him.. because I dont remember when he was last interviewd.. but I do recall... it was on CSN Of course a guy in his position is going to say he wants to stay. Why would he eliminate a team that constantly bids against itself for crappy players, and if the Cubs can drive up the price with other teams in the bidding, all the better.

Sounds like something Dusty would say. The Yankees have been doing the walk/obp/slg thing for years. They can just pay for better versions of that stuff. They have good offensive numbers because they get the most talented players who have the best plate discipline. If the Cubs were smart they'd do a scaled down version of the same thing. You don't need to go after every big time free agent, and there's no need to throw huge money after problems that can be fixed with minimal effort. Are people still arguing that the lack of walks isn't behind the Cubs lack of runs and lack of wins for the past several years? Are we still debating whether or not the Cubs should take more walks? Yes, we should take more walks. Do you need to be anywhere near a leader in walks to win the WS? Absolutely not. The White Sox last year-25th out of 30 teams in walks. The Astros? 20th out of 30 teams. 3 of the top teams in walks last year finished in the bottom 10 team of runs. There is simply no clear evidence that walks have more than a slight effect on runs scored. OBP, yes-it adds the high effect of average and the slight effect of walks. Walking a great deal is not a great indicator of scoring runs or having success on the field. Jim, is that you?

Sounds like something Dusty would say. The Yankees have been doing the walk/obp/slg thing for years. They can just pay for better versions of that stuff. They have good offensive numbers because they get the most talented players who have the best plate discipline. If the Cubs were smart they'd do a scaled down version of the same thing. You don't need to go after every big time free agent, and there's no need to throw huge money after problems that can be fixed with minimal effort. Are people still arguing that the lack of walks isn't behind the Cubs lack of runs and lack of wins for the past several years? Are we still debating whether or not the Cubs should take more walks? I agree, nothing wrong with spending money on great hitters, the problem is the Cubs don't do that they over pay for crap.

I don't think that most people would claim that Beane is a bad GM. I think 2 problems arise though when looking at following his offensive philosophy. 1) Yes, Beane has a much smaller payroll. Do you think his offensive philosophy might change with a larger payroll? As some have said, Beane values efficiency because he has to. Most efficient does not always equal ideal. The Yankees are not efficient whatsoever, but yet they have very good offensive numbers. The Cubs could easily do somewhat of the same thing. 2)Many times, Oakland's offense has kept them from advancing further in the playoffs. They simply have not had enough offense to get past the first round even when they had their big 3. I think even Beane would say that he might value different types of hitters if he had the flexibility that the Cubs have. If Beane had a bigger payroll to play with I think he would absolutely put together some dominant teams. The guy is smart, he would've been able to hold onto guys like Tejada or Giambi or some of his pitching and still exploited inefficiencies to fill in around them, what would lead you to believe he would stray from his area of expertise?

I think "exposed" is the wrong word with loaded connotations, but as I said on the previous page, I think he deserves some criticism from all points of view. yes, he has a low payroll, but a large chunk of it is taken up with two players who suck, not an efficient use of resources. the young guys who have come to the ML level are not the diamond in the rough/Moneyball type draft picks, they are players that any GM would have taken, so yes he's drafted players that came to the major leagues, but at no greater clip as any other GM who would have had 10-12 first round draft picks in two years. he does keep his teams competitive, but in a division that has fallen off precipitously in the past few years, and the strength of his team is generally NOT derived from the strength of the offense, it has generally been pitching, by pitchers who, again, any GM would have taken. his good signs and trades have been equalized by his bad signs and trades. and I think one thing that always gets left out of the discussion of Beane is the position he is in. doesn't really matter what the team is doing, they generally draw the same number of fans in Oakland...not alot. he doesn't have to deal with the sort of 'win now' mentality of the fan base and local sports journalists as in Anaheim, Arlington, Seattle, New York, Chicago (northside). that allows him to sit back and cherry pick, where other GMs could not. where I think he may have been "exposed" is the weakness of preaching patience. as I alluded to in a couple of other threads, patience makes no difference if the players OBP sucks. patience is a means to an end, not an end. the point of patience is getting a good pitch to hit and then hitting said pitch, and if said pitch does not come, getting on base anyway. a .80 difference between ave and obp is of little value if the player is batting .225. that is what Beane is experiencing right now. guys who can draw all the BB/PA you want, but who can't hit. edit for one more criticism - his payroll has risen significantly the past couple years, both in terms of amount and relative to other teams, yet he has not been able to parlay that into success on the field. still operating lower than most teams also, I think he is a fine GM, but not the boy genius he's been made out to be. The A's have not been successful on the field? What are you smoking, they win year in and year out what more do you want? Beane puts a product on the field that gives them the capacity to win, now they haven't won a W.S. but as a fan I would take a legit opportunity to be in the playoffs every year. I don't know how you can make some of your comments with a straight face.

I don't see how Walker is a pure OBP play, but Beane has gone after lots of OBP-centric players. He can't go after all of them. He has stayed away from bigtime OBP guys in recent years because they have been earning more and more money as the rest of the league started realizing the value of OBP. Beane isn't an OBP fiend, he's an efficiency fiend. Amen to that. Beane is about exposing inefficiencies in the market, it just so happens that he was the first to exploit the lack of value put on OBP so now he has that label. Beane is to baseball what Warren Buffett is to the stock market, he looks to find undervalued assets and buy them up on the cheap.

He does have 16 errors this year, 8 of which are throwing errors (3 last night) which leads me to believe that he just needs to work on his arm angle a little bit. Probably similar to the problem Cedeno has had.

Given Giles' is 35 years old, that's a heck of an assumption. Agreed. Giles's power has completely disappeared (.389 SLG this year) and even though he still shows the ability to get on base (.392 OBP) I think Jones is the better option for the next couple years. Playing at PETCO will have that effect on your power numbers. It would be awesome to see his .392 OBP in the Cubs lineup. If, and that's a big if, Giles had signed with the Cubs, you can't say for sure his numbers would be better, but I would think his OBP would be similar and his SLG would be higher, now they could be worse, but his career numbers wouldn't indicate that. I don't know why that is a heck of an assumption to think that Giles would produce near his career numbers especially when he still gets on base at a higher clip than just about everyone else on the Cubs, with the exception of DLee. Seeing that he is starting to decline though, even if his numbers rebounded somewhat, is he worth spending double the money of Jones? Which player is going to be the worse contract-9 million for Giles in 2008 when he is 37, or 5 million for Jones when he is 33? I would argue that Giles will not have the significant production needed to justify that contract. Two more things about Giles's contract. One, he never would have accepted a deal from the Cubs for 9 million a year. He rejected a deal of 11+ from other teams, so it would have taken 12+ million a year, and so now you have to wonder if he's worth two and a half times what Jones is. Also, not only does he have a 3 year deal, but the Padres will have to pay a 3 million dollar buyout to not be on the hook for a 4th year at 9 million. That's a great deal of money for a player who's slugging is dropping rapidly. You are also going under the assumption that his numbers would be the same at Wrigley as they are at PETCO which I don't believe is a valid assumption. You may be right, he may be on a sharp and steady decline but at the time we signed Jones his numbers weren't exactly on the ascent and now you want to compare a half season's worth of numbers to validate your position which I understand, just looking at that you are correct, I just don't believe that you can look at a half season and come to a definitive conclusion. I am making assumptions based on career numbers and a longer view than just a half season.

Given Giles' is 35 years old, that's a heck of an assumption. Agreed. Giles's power has completely disappeared (.389 SLG this year) and even though he still shows the ability to get on base (.392 OBP) I think Jones is the better option for the next couple years. Playing at PETCO will have that effect on your power numbers. It would be awesome to see his .392 OBP in the Cubs lineup. If, and that's a big if, Giles had signed with the Cubs, you can't say for sure his numbers would be better, but I would think his OBP would be similar and his SLG would be higher, now they could be worse, but his career numbers wouldn't indicate that. I don't know why that is a heck of an assumption to think that Giles would produce near his career numbers especially when he still gets on base at a higher clip than just about everyone else on the Cubs, with the exception of DLee.

perhaps an illustration is necessary. in the argument of Pierre or Wilkerson, nobody who advocates Wilkerson will give an ounce of credit to Pierre for his superior defensive range. that aspect of the game just doesn't matter. when those same people come on and rant about Jones, suddenly defense is a huge part of the game that has to be taken into account to point out how much he sucks. Wilkerson's range is nowhere near as inadequate as Pierre's arm either. There is always some give and take when talking about a players all around game. I have nothing against Pierre, I think he is probably the hardest working guy on the Cub, but again if you look at his career as a whole and where he has been trending, that is the argument that is to be made.

No one is hating on Jones for his production thus far. We just think it is unrealistic for him to keep performing at this level for an extended period of time. We are looking further out than the 20/20 hindsight involved in looking at the last few months. Jones is earning his money at the moment, we aren't denying that. Have you actually read the posts? I have been against his signing from day one and while he has performed at the plate, his defense and baserunning have been undeniably horrible. How hard is it to see that he has been hot for a couple of months hitting and that his career numbers don't suggest he can keep up that pace? I hated the signing of Jones too. I was so p'd off about it I didn't even come to NSBB for two weeks. but that doesn't change the fact that Jones' expected production costs about exactly what he's being paid in today's market. and it's amazing that when arguing about the contributions of defense and baserunning in the context of, let's say the Cubs centerfielder, many of the same people who rip on Jones for defense and baserunning will tell you how unimportant those aspects of the game are. strawman argument I know, but it's rampant. I just seek consistent rationale and facts in these discussions instead of conjecture, misinformation, and hypocrisy. I seek poeple make positive suggestions instead of just bitching for the sake of bitching, and using faulty logic to do so. I've always thought Pierre had a weak arm and that Hendry gave up way too much for him

No one is hating on Jones for his production thus far. We just think it is unrealistic for him to keep performing at this level for an extended period of time. We are looking further out than the 20/20 hindsight involved in looking at the last few months. Jones is earning his money at the moment, we aren't denying that. Have you actually read the posts? I have been against his signing from day one and while he has performed at the plate, his defense and baserunning have been undeniably horrible. How hard is it to see that he has been hot for a couple of months hitting and that his career numbers don't suggest he can keep up that pace?

"And today it was announced that Sean Marshall has been sent back down to AAA".... "Sean Marshall will now be working out of the bullpen" would be worse. At least in AAA, Marshall would still be getting starts. I like this move. Marshall has already pitched a career high amount of innings. The season is lost, no sense in ruining the kids arm. Now Marmol, Guzman, and Hill can all get a chance to show what they can do, plenty of arms that can pick up the slack. I would also send Novoa down and bring back Wuertz to give Eyre and Howry a break. Marshall needs to get as many starts in the majors this year as possible. The guy can flat out pitch and is still very raw. One of the few positives regarding this season is that Marshall and Marmol are getting ample time to develop without worrying about mistakes or one bad inning (like last night). The games from here on out are meaningless from a standings standpoint, but not from a development standpoint. I would much rather let them taking their lumps against major league hitters than dominate AAA pitching. So you want Marshall to go from a career high of like 130 innings pitched to see if he can top 200 innings this year? I just don't think that will help his development at all, I think that is just begging for trouble. Marshall has gained plenty of experience and I like the fact he will remain on the big league club so he can still soak up as much as he can from Maddux. Finally a little forsight by management. Yes, I want him to prove tht he can pitch a full major league season, just the same that is expected of every major league pitcher. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that Marshall has some of the same problems as Wood, Prior, etc. I've never heard anybody complain about his mechanics and if I remember right, his injury last year had to do with his finger. As someone pointed out earlier, its not as if he is pitching 100+ pitches per game on a consistent basis. I never heard of any problems with Mark Prior's mechanics either, until after Dusty used and abused him in 2003, not that the collision with Giles or the line drive off of his arm helped matters any. All pitchers have to progressively build up their stamina to get to the point of pitching a full season, which Marshall hasn't done yet. The Cubs shut down Prior after signing because of all the innings he threw in college the year he came out, why is this any different?

Like I said you are basing your analysis on a half a years production while I am looking at career numbers. In the case of these other guys I will just say that because other GM's may have signed players to a bad deal, doesn't mean Hendry had too, especially when he was basically bidding against himself. (KC was the only other team showing interest) What could we do in RF then? If these players were not the answer, then who? Who is that player that could have produced for us at a better clip that was anywhere available? Many people said Brian Giles, but so far, his contract is looking like a much bigger liability. His production is falling, and he is making twice as much as Jones for the same 3 years with a 3 million dollar buyout in 2009. So if not Jones, then what was Hendry supposed to do? All I can say is, I think you are looking at the short term and putting far too much emphasis on it. I still would have rather have had Giles than Jones. Hindsight is 20/20 but looking forward I would say Giles' numbers will improve and Jone's will decline.

Like I said you are basing your analysis on a half a years production while I am looking at career numbers. In the case of these other guys I will just say that because other GM's may have signed players to a bad deal, doesn't mean Hendry had too, especially when he was basically bidding against himself. (KC was the only other team showing interest) Also, while he has put up numbers at the plate, his defense is horrible and his baserunning gaffes have been inexcusable.

Jones is on the downside of his career and magically he is going to start putting up career best in numbers? I am not saying Jacque is horrible I am just saying he was not a good signing. Career numbers for some of the guys you mentioned and compared to for a half season. Career OPS Jones: .787 Vlad: .971 Alou: .883 Sanders: .831 Encarnacion: .756 So, of those players Jones matches up most comparably with Encarnacion yet is making about 2 million more a year. So, if you think Jones is worth the 3 years 16 million for his career .787 OPS then so be it. I just don't think you can justify the contract on a half season, and realistically I don't think he will put up an .850 OPS for three years. There is nothing in his past that would indicate that. If he does then you will have a legitimate point.

You are comparing Apples and Oranges. Jones is overpaid and on the books for two more years after this, he is a corner outfielder so should have more HR's and RBI's. Todd Walker at a fraction of the the price is still a much better deal whether you think he is a malcontent or not. Well, let's see. Jones's numbers are only slightly below Magglio's numbers-so I guess his 16,000,000 must be the worst signing ever. The Tigers must be looking to dump him for whoever since he he is way overpaid-he should only be making 5 million a season like Jacque, right? How about Vladimir Guererro-his numbers are only at best moderately better also (5 extra homeruns, .2 OBP). Does that mean he's not worth his 13.5 million dollars? Should the Angels be looking to get rid of him for whatever they can get? Moises Alou is maybe putting up the same stats as Jones, and he is getting paid 7.5 million-overpaid. Encarnacion is only making 3.5 million, but he's not doing as well as Jones is-overpaid. Reggie Sanders is making 5 million-and he's not doing nearly as well as Jones-dreadfully overpaid. The names could go on-Jose Guillen, Shawn Green, J.D. Drew, Brian Giles, Geoff Jenkins. None of their numbers would match their salary figures. I just provided 10 names that are making comparable or as in the case of 8 of the names much more than Jones. I could provide several more names. Jones is an average to below average salary player for his position, and he's providing above average production for his position. You mentioned home runs-he's 7th for RF's. He's 9th in OPS, so he is better than most of the right fielders around the league right now. Will he go into a tailspin? Maybe-but how long does he have to continue playing like this before his contract will be known as a good one? If he plays like this for all 3 years, Jacque Jones will actually be dreadfully underpaid for the relative amount that people get at his position. First off, I didn't compare Jones to other right fielders, it was a comparison between him and Todd Walker. Second of all, most of the guys that you mentioned have much better career numbers than Jones. While Jones is putting up great numbers in half a season, the odds are that he will revert back to his career norms before the end of his contract in which case, he will be grossly overpaid and still on the Cubs books for another couple of years. I applaud Jacque for his performance at the plate so far this year, he still is horrible defensively though also. Also I would say that some of those guys on your list are overpaid also (Geoff Jenkins)

"And today it was announced that Sean Marshall has been sent back down to AAA".... "Sean Marshall will now be working out of the bullpen" would be worse. At least in AAA, Marshall would still be getting starts. I like this move. Marshall has already pitched a career high amount of innings. The season is lost, no sense in ruining the kids arm. Now Marmol, Guzman, and Hill can all get a chance to show what they can do, plenty of arms that can pick up the slack. I would also send Novoa down and bring back Wuertz to give Eyre and Howry a break. Marshall needs to get as many starts in the majors this year as possible. The guy can flat out pitch and is still very raw. One of the few positives regarding this season is that Marshall and Marmol are getting ample time to develop without worrying about mistakes or one bad inning (like last night). The games from here on out are meaningless from a standings standpoint, but not from a development standpoint. I would much rather let them taking their lumps against major league hitters than dominate AAA pitching. So you want Marshall to go from a career high of like 130 innings pitched to see if he can top 200 innings this year? I just don't think that will help his development at all, I think that is just begging for trouble. Marshall has gained plenty of experience and I like the fact he will remain on the big league club so he can still soak up as much as he can from Maddux. Finally a little forsight by management.

You are comparing Apples and Oranges. Jones is overpaid and on the books for two more years after this, he is a corner outfielder so should have more HR's and RBI's. Todd Walker at a fraction of the the price is still a much better deal whether you think he is a malcontent or not.

"And today it was announced that Sean Marshall has been sent back down to AAA".... "Sean Marshall will now be working out of the bullpen" would be worse. At least in AAA, Marshall would still be getting starts. I like this move. Marshall has already pitched a career high amount of innings. The season is lost, no sense in ruining the kids arm. Now Marmol, Guzman, and Hill can all get a chance to show what they can do, plenty of arms that can pick up the slack. I would also send Novoa down and bring back Wuertz to give Eyre and Howry a break.

I don't think it is totally absurd to think this could be a possiblilty as the fans BOO him.. If Hendry continues to make personnel decisions based on whether or not talk show hosts trash and fans boo players, then this organization will quickly become worse off that ever. Hendry needs to take a deep breath, realize that Aramis is a talented player stuck in a tough season, is a key building block, and not make a rash decision based on some goofs booing because he didn't sprint to 1B on a popup. I don't think anyone is saying to make a rash decision. I also think Aramis deserves to be criticized for not running out popups, getting thrown out at third in a close game, and several other examples of his lack of hustle. That is part of the problem, he needs to be held accountable for at least the things he can control, such as putting forth an honest amount of effort, and keeping his head in the game and recognizing what the situation in the game is. The Dusty approach is not working with him, whatever that might be. While some may be scapegoating Aramis I don't think it is a majority. I have seen others go the opposite way and not want to hold him accountable in any way for his lack of mental preparedness, and hustle, which is also no means a majority. To add, I wasn't talking about Aramis getting Booed, that quote is taken out of context. I was talking about ARod getting booed in New York. The problem I have is that it's not an Aramis-only issue on the team. I've seen just about every player have a mental lapse or not go all out at one point or another. Aramis is getting ripped because he struggled when Lee was out, and therefore everything he does is magnified. What really gets me, though, is that no noe would complain about having Miguel Cabrera on the Cubs, but he's a bigger slacker than Aramis ever was as far as consistent effort for efforts sake. Likewise, there was the Steve Stone trade proposal for Manny Ramirez, who also started the year slow, and if HE were in Chicago, sportswriters and idiot fans would be beside themselves whenever he only ran halfway to first on a grounder. Aramis's effort is sometimes lacking, but it's nowhere near as bad as other players in the league, and it's the LAST thing people should focus on right now. I am not trying to excuse it, because I'd rather he not loaf it, ever, but at the same time it's not even close to the big deal that Sullivan and others make it out to be. There are 22 other players on this team that I'd rip and want gone before Ramirez. I agree that things have been magnified but I also think fans have every right to call a player out for "loafing" it. I am also not advocating giving Aramis away for nothing or for even trading him. I am just saying if the right deal came along and you got a productive third basemen in return, I would not hesitate to unload him, and that goes not only for Aramis, but for any Cub with the possible exception of Lee and Z. I also don't think it is the LAST thing that people should focus on because this lackadaizical mindset seems to be systemic with this team which also points to the reason why I think the first person to go should be DUSTY.