badgercub

I can't wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnn......with or withouuuuuuuut yoooooooooouuu I would prefer to think of the Cubs season as something closer to "Sunday, bloody Sunday" It certainly won't be "October" bravo

I can't wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnn......with or withouuuuuuuut yoooooooooouuu I would prefer to think of the Cubs season as something closer to "Sunday, bloody Sunday"

Has there been one post that said it was entirely Dusty's fault? Seems like you're arguing a point that no one else has even made. Yet, a majority of you are arguing he needs to be the guy fired right now? That sounds fair. I don't think it is unfair. Dusty has had 3+ years to show us something. I am not even going to bring wins and losses into this because I know, especially this year he hasn't had much to work with but the least you should expect is that no matter who is in the lineup ( many of which are guys Dusty lobbied for) they should at least be expected to play head up ball and in his tenure as manager this has not been the case at all, not even in 2003. I truly believe they won in '03 despite Dusty. There are numerous examples to point to as to why I think Dusty should be fired but that would be the main reason, he just isn't a good manager and while most will tell you a manager might only account for x number of wins throughout the course of a season I have to believe that Dusty accounts for x number of losses because most of the time he has no clue as to what he is doing in the dugout, I honestly don't know how he has survived as a manager this long.

Fair enough, but you still didn't answer my question as to what makes you think Dusty has what it takes to turn this around? Or what has he shown you that you think he is a good manager? I don't have that answer. I do think he is a guy the players respect and will play hard for. His teams do have a history of playing well in the second half, although his recent Cubs' teams would indicate otherwise. I'm not a huge Dusty supporter. Do I think he deserves a chance to get this team out of their hole? Yes, I do. However, if the management really think he's to blame, then fire him.....what I'm saying is don't fire the guy just for the sake of making a move. Only do so if you have a viable candidate available. Wouldn't you agree that that is not the case right now? As far as guys playing hard for him. When half the guys are not mentally in the game and continue to make the same mental mistakes over and over again, I just don't think Dusty has them playing hard for him, they don't seem to be prepared at all.

You don't think the players deserve any of this blame? Last time I checked, Baker or Hendry didn't hit, pitch, field or hustle. Last time I checked, Hendry was responsible for putting the players on the field, and Baker was brought in for the ability to "get the most out of his players". Agreed. If we're going to play the blame game I think there is a lot more to be placed on Hendry than Baker. For those criticizing Baker's lineups there's really not a whole lot you can piece together right now when you're working with a recently struggling Ramirez, Todd Walker and Michael Barrett as the heart of your lineup. Throw in heavily relying on essentially two rookies to boot. You wonder why Contreras threw 80% or so of his pitches for strikes yesterday. If I had to face that, I'd challenge these guys every pitch, too..... Well, one of those rookies is batting .290 something and the other isn't hurting the lineup as much as some of the overpriced vets. The point is, his horrible lineups date a lot further back than this year. What about last year when he refused to let Walker lead off and kept putting "the savior" Neifi Perez and his sub .300 OBP in the lead off spot, or the equally worse option of Corey Patterson who should have been hitting 7th or 8th? Also, I haven't seen one other poster on here absolve Hendry of his role in this, so I don't even know why he is pertinent to the conversation of whether or not Dusty should go.

Fair enough, but you still didn't answer my question as to what makes you think Dusty has what it takes to turn this around? Or what has he shown you that you think he is a good manager?

He had his chance. He had it in 2003, when the team melted down. He had it in 2004 when the team melted down. He had it in 2005 when the team stunk. He had it 3 weeks ago when the team stunk. Why not fire him now? He's a bad manager, has been for a while. You fire him now because the team is playing like crap and Dusty is a bad manager. What other reason do you need? Replace him with who then? If you have a better candidate the Cubs could get tomorrow, I'm all ears. For instance, if you would have fired Baker last year before the Marlins started talking to Girardi, I would have loved to see that. Say you get rid of Baker because it wasn't working and Girardi was your guy and you took it. Fine...but don't just fire someone and then bring in someone worse to do a job to please the complaining fans or media. It all goes to accountability. So if you sucked at your job and continually mismanaged those around you would your bosses say, well, because we have to pay you for the rest of the year, even though you are not providing results, we'll keep you around. The Cubs don't owe Dusty a thing (except the cash to buy out the rest of his contract, yet another example of Hendry bidding against himself and overpaying). They paid him well and now it is time to say good bye. Bring in an interim manager now and start targeting a manager for next year if you can't find a suitable candidate now. They hired Dusty Baker for a reason and he should be given this chance to change it. If he can't then get someone else to try, but let's not go through this joke of an interim manager routine. I'm hoping that Hendry and MacPhail are already planning for a worse case scenario if this year holds to form now and are looking at possible replacements. If they aren't/don't, then I will agree with everyone of you saying this management is incompetent. Why is the interim manager thing a joke? Most recently Jack McKeon took the Marlins to a world Chamionship in 2003 and got the full time job and look at what the Astro did after they fired Jimy Williams. What's to say the same thing can't happen to the Cubs? It is painfully obvious that Dusty is not the guy to get the job done so why wait to make the change? What are your reasons to keep Dusty on? What can you point to that says he is a good manager and can turn this thing around?

Dierker got the Astros to the playoffs every year that he was manager. Riggleman got a horrible Cubs team to a wild card berth. I have always been surprised that Riggs has never been offered another managerial position.

I don't think you know that. Be that as it may, if it were true then the Cubs shouldn't have signed him. I don't think anyone but Hendry would have given him that contract. Frankly, I'd rather just Keep Burnitz around for one year. You don't think St. Louis for one would take Jacque Jones over Encarnacion? Please. If we would have offered 1 year for $3-4 million he would have laughed at that offer and other teams would have grossly outbid that. Then they can have him. But wasn't Juan signed before jacque? From all reports, the only other team interested in Jones was the KC Royals and they surely offered nothing near what Hendry did.

He had his chance. He had it in 2003, when the team melted down. He had it in 2004 when the team melted down. He had it in 2005 when the team stunk. He had it 3 weeks ago when the team stunk. Why not fire him now? He's a bad manager, has been for a while. You fire him now because the team is playing like crap and Dusty is a bad manager. What other reason do you need? Replace him with who then? If you have a better candidate the Cubs could get tomorrow, I'm all ears. For instance, if you would have fired Baker last year before the Marlins started talking to Girardi, I would have loved to see that. Say you get rid of Baker because it wasn't working and Girardi was your guy and you took it. Fine...but don't just fire someone and then bring in someone worse to do a job to please the complaining fans or media. It all goes to accountability. So if you sucked at your job and continually mismanaged those around you would your bosses say, well, because we have to pay you for the rest of the year, even though you are not providing results, we'll keep you around. The Cubs don't owe Dusty a thing (except the cash to buy out the rest of his contract, yet another example of Hendry bidding against himself and overpaying). They paid him well and now it is time to say good bye. Bring in an interim manager now and start targeting a manager for next year if you can't find a suitable candidate now.

It was actually before the post season run that people knew he was incompetent. Their firings will not make Jones instantly better, but it will bode well for the franchise the sooner these guys are shown the door. The Cubs will not win a W.S. with the current regime in place. I give them credit for taking the team to the next level, but the organization as a whole seems to be taking a step backward with these guys at the helm and the sooner they are gone the better. Hendry just got his extension so we know he is not going anywhere and MacPhail is also secure. It has to start with Dusty as his contract is up at the end of the year, that is the nature of managing in the big leagues when things go bad it is usually the manager that is the first to go and that is why these guys get paid so much money.

Complain about Hendry's signings, I think that's reasonable, but that's the catch-22 about being the GM for the Cubs and working in Chicago. We all want this to turn around overnight. Jones and Giles were the two best right fielders in free agency. No way, Giles was leaving SD, so Hendry was left with one option. Sign Jones or be crucified for "not addressing right field." If you're a team who desperately needs a closer, but you don't think anyone available are that impressive or they're asking for too much money and decide to do nothing, don't you think the fans would jump on you if you decided to sign nobody? Damned if you do...damned if you don't. But that was the problem, Hendry bid against himself for Jones. If he would have signed Jones to a 1 year deal for 3-4 million I think people would have still been disappointed but when he overpays and locks the guy up for 3 years it is asinine. And sure there were only 2 RF on the FA market but instead of overpaying with 3 young pitchers for Juan Pierre, maybe he should have used those assets to get a productive RF and I believe with that amount of pitching Hendry could have gotten a deal done for somebody. Instead he overpaid in dollars and prospects for two guys that have showed a downward trend over the last couple of years. These are arguments that have been made since the signing, not in hindsight.

So far, the only guy that has stepped up and said he is not getting the job done is Juan Pierre. You gotta give him credit for at least not making any excuses.

I think you can even date some of the abuse back to 2003. Dusty overused him horribly, left him in games to throw well in excess of 100 pitches in games where they were ahead by 5 or 6 runs. Same goes for Prior.

I think you assume to much with the Baker situation. All indications are from what we read in the newspapers, that Hendry is just waiting for the right opportunity to give Baker an extension. 4 wins in 19 games is apparently good enough. Who exactly has been held accountable so far? The Cubs are the 6th worst team in the majors. Other than a couple of bullpen guys being sent down, we have the same team that we started with. The players haven't been held responsible. Baker hasn't been held responsible. Hendry hasn't been held responsible. MacPhail hasn't been held responsible. And the Tribune obviously isn't being held responsible. Where exactly is someone being held accountable? Accountablility would be someone losing their job. In every normal workplace, if you are unable to perform your job adequately, someone who CAN do the job will be asked to step in and do it. That doesn't appear to be the case with the Cubs. People that are clearly unable to do the job are being allowed to continue to try and try and try, with no change in results. That's no accountability. Do they have someone right now who they think CAN do the job? Obviously not. It's not like they're holding on to Baker and Hendry for the hell of it or they're nice guys. Since the Tribune owns the Cubs, I think they're clear of accountability. I don't care what the fans think they deserve on the field, it's up to them to determine what they spend and how they spend it. MacPhail and Hendry aren't perfect and have made mistakes, but have also done plenty of positives, too. The bullpen additions have been very good and Jones has been pretty good, but Pierre has struggled. They tried to address or weaknesses and some have worked while others haven't. It doesn't help that right now they have about $30 million worth of payroll on the DL or not healthy. As I said, regarding Baker, the wins and losses will hold his fate. If they rebound this year and compete, he'll probably be back. If not, he won't. What do you want? Posters here complain about this guy sucks and that guy sucks. People make it sound so easy....I know, let's go get Cabrera to play left and Abreu to play right. Sure....okay. Are you for real? So, what should be done? Just go on and keep using the same old sorry excuses? I know there are a lot of injuries, and that is not Dusty's fault, but that still shouldn't let him skate for the poor fundamentals this team has displayed and some of his bonehead lineups. Hendry most definitely should be held accountable for assembling yet another team that was going to rely on oft injured players to miraculously make it through an entire season (not talking about Lee) with no back up plan (Im sorry, the signing of Neifi, Rusch, Mabry, et al.... does not constitute a plan) You make it seem like people just started criticising management becasue of the losing streak when in fact some of these issues have been raised on this message board dating back to 2003. Even when the Cubs were winning people realized Dusty was incompetent.

Got picked not once, not twice, but three times. And at the time, although he was coming around, was not really a force in the lineup and also was during that stretch the Cubs faced a gaggle of lefthanders so I think the benching could have worked out ok (Hairston wouldn't have killed them for one game, plus they suck anyway and would probably lose with or without him)

Also, I don't think holding someone accountable necessarily means benching them for a month, but when Jones continually makes baserunning mistakes you can surely yank him out for the remainder of the game and sit him for the next one. That would be holding him accountable, at least on Dusty's part. Holding Hendry accountable for his signing is another thing......

No they need an old man to bench their assess when the get doubled off of second two times in three weeks. right, that would've helped the team. It's not like Jones has been the best hitter this week or anything They are losing anyway, and Jones isn't likely to keep this up. Might wake up the team if you bench the guy and send a message that this sort of nonsense will not be tolerated. See also Guillen's comments in todays Trib re Big Frank. I think Jones should be platooned, I was all for yanking him out of the game when he made the baserunning mistakes, but it is too late to punish him for that. Those things need to be addressed immediately, you can't wait for 3 weeks and then do something about it.

Unfortunately Barrett deservest he suspension. He totally suckerpunched Pierzinski. Barrett will appeal and probably get it down to like 7 games, doesnt' really matter, this season is in the crapper anyway. Whatever the suspension, it was worth it. Since Dusty is unable to inspire anyone, maybe this will. As far as DLee goes, I think Bruce had a quote from DLee in his column today something like he expects to probably "be in trouble" for going on the field.

If he has a problem with being misquoted then fine, issue a statement saying you were misquoted, don't get yourself riled into a tizzy about it. You would think Hendry would have a lot bigger things to worry about than if he was misquoted in the paper. As a fan, it really is disappointing to hear the Hendry has time to throw a fit, when there are so many other problems that need fixing. You are in the big leagues now Jim, start acting like it. Enough with the excuses, it is time to do your job, you are sitting at the "Grown Ups" table now quit acting like a child.

Yes, exactly. The team, and everybody involved with it should ignore the media coverage and focus on the team. Fans are fans, GMs are GMs. Comparing the two in this situation is asinine. I would also add, that when most of the bashing goes on on this site people tend to back up their criticism with fact.

That's assinine. We don't run the Cubs. But anyway, I can't speak for anyone other than myslef, but if Hendry were justified in calling a reporter on the carpet that would be one thing. But with the state of the currentl club, it is quite another. And I am in no way defending the hack Paul Sullivan. His sportswriting is just bad, but then again that is not what Hendry was complaining about. No, it's not "assinine" at all. If you or I see something from Sullivan that we don't like, no one is going to get all pissy because we comment on it. Just because Hendry has the ability to go straight to Sullivan rather than whining about it on a message board doesn't make it any different. He saw something that he didn't like and he let it be known. Not a big deal. There is a difference with letting it be know and calling someone into your office and berating them. Hendry is an infantile egomaniac and deserves to get lambasted over this. It seems Sullivan is the whiny twit. This isn't over one article but his whole body of work the last few years. McGrath is the one who will probably be gone first. Sullivan is just a contract writer, I don't think he is a fulltime employee of the Trib. I think your facts are wrong. It has been reported all day today that the tirade from MacPhail and Hendry was over one article (About Jones). Again I am not a Sullivan fan, I rarely agree with anything he writes, but there is no excuse for what MacPhail and Hendry did especially since they got rid of Mercker and Alou for similar discretions

Sure, if there is not much analysis behind the reporting, or if the reporters opinion is not backed up by any kind of facts. The problem with this is, Sullivan was dead on with his criticism of Jacque Jones. I know that sometimes the truth hurts but that doesn't give Hendry and MacPhail the right to act like a couple of 3 year olds and throw a tantrum. They got rid of Mercker because of his problem with Chip and Steve and now they turn around and do the same thing is utterly hypocritical Is that what the whole thing was about? Jones? Because the article linked in the first post doesn't specify what they were upset about. Yes, it relates to an article that Sullivan wrote a while back criticizing Jones as a player. The whole incident took place awhile ago and was just brought up in a recent article.

That's assinine. We don't run the Cubs. But anyway, I can't speak for anyone other than myslef, but if Hendry were justified in calling a reporter on the carpet that would be one thing. But with the state of the currentl club, it is quite another. And I am in no way defending the hack Paul Sullivan. His sportswriting is just bad, but then again that is not what Hendry was complaining about. No, it's not "assinine" at all. If you or I see something from Sullivan that we don't like, no one is going to get all pissy because we comment on it. Just because Hendry has the ability to go straight to Sullivan rather than whining about it on a message board doesn't make it any different. He saw something that he didn't like and he let it be known. Not a big deal. There is a difference with letting it be know and calling someone into your office and berating them. Hendry is an infantile egomaniac and deserves to get lambasted over this.

Sure, if there is not much analysis behind the reporting, or if the reporters opinion is not backed up by any kind of facts. The problem with this is, Sullivan was dead on with his criticism of Jacque Jones. I know that sometimes the truth hurts but that doesn't give Hendry and MacPhail the right to act like a couple of 3 year olds and throw a tantrum. They got rid of Mercker because of his problem with Chip and Steve and now they turn around and do the same thing is utterly hypocritical