ManEatingTarp

I got 7 of 10. I read the I-55 book a couple of years ago, and it has all the great head to head moments in it. It's a must read if you love the rivalry!

Schmidt is my #1 hope. Wagner #2 Vernon Wells or Adam Dunn #3 If Walt can get any of those guys.... Well, they'd be pretty good.

I assume than that Wagner does not have a no trade clause. I think Walt will be willing to move Wainwright or Reyes for the right deal. If he thinks Wagner is the main need I could see a trade involving one of these two prospects. Likewise, I could imagine Walt working a deal with one of the pitching prospects for a good hitting outfielder to platoon and take over next year. Either way, I don't think Walt is at a point that he has to jump at the first offer because the team does not have any glaring weaknesses at this time. You are correct in that the team doesn't have any weaknesses that need to be fixed in order for them to make the post season. The Cardinals, sans a collapse of epic proportions, will be in the playoffs. What Jocketty has to ask himself now, is what weaknesses this team will have in a short series and how can those be remedied and if it is worth the cost. It's different than teams trying to make a deal to get to postseason. The cost-benefit analysis is much more critical in this instance. B-I-N-G-O was his name-o In a short series, what would be of the most benefit to the Cards? Improved Pen? Another Frontline Starter? Impact OF? A 4th OF?

That's because most Cardinal fans are results-oriented.

Here's hoping he surprises with another Sterling Hitchcock or Mike DeJean-esque move :) Every silver lining has a touch of grey... ;) I would LOVE to have Wagner, but the under the radar move that may happen... I have a funny feeling that Jason Schmidt might be a Cardinal by the end of the month. Marquis, Reyes and ________.

Why? Players signed for at least another year usually require more in a trade because the window is bigger for a payoff for losing your prospects. Mark Mulder is a good example of this. He's been average at best this year, but we'll have another year to evaluate him. On Wagner. This is the guy I've wanted all along. I think the Cards can find a younger OFer in the off season, but the addition of Wagner would be a huge boost. Besides giving backup to the closer position, it would make that bullpen one of, if not the best in baseball. It would make most games 6 inning contests. That said, Walt usually surprises at the trade deadline, so I don't think this one is going to happen. I half expect him to get an impact starter. I still fail to see how that is cheaper than I might think. 1) You have to give up decent prospects 2) If you don't sign him, those prospects are gone, and so is the player you got. Although, I guess you do get the compenstory pick from whatever team does sign him. 3) If you sign him, and he is talented (e.g. Wagner), that will cost plenty, especially with the stiff competition from teams like Boston. Of course, he could give Saint Louis the ever popular and famous 'home team discount' like all their other players do. :wink: Don't get me wrong, I think the price would be VERY high. If he were already signed to a 2 or 3 year deal, I don't think we would even be considering it. edit- meaning he probably wouldn't even be on the block (if he indeed is...)

Why? Players signed for at least another year usually require more in a trade because the window is bigger for a payoff for losing your prospects. Mark Mulder is a good example of this. He's been average at best this year, but we'll have another year to evaluate him. On Wagner. This is the guy I've wanted all along. I think the Cards can find a younger OFer in the off season, but the addition of Wagner would be a huge boost. Besides giving backup to the closer position, it would make that bullpen one of, if not the best in baseball. It would make most games 6 inning contests. That said, Walt usually surprises at the trade deadline, so I don't think this one is going to happen. I half expect him to get an impact starter. my 2 cents...

Good..., objective was achieved. I am bored. I hate the all-star break as much as the Cardinals. :wink: 2 days of pain. Oh well, guess I'll just go home and drink beer and watch the History Channel...

That even made me crack a smile. This rivalry is the best.

Two more series' left and the Cubs are 12.5 back. That losing streak didn't help, but if they can make up a game or two, they're in good shape heading into the Cardinals difficult part of the schedule. The division may be out of reach, but the head to head games with the Cards will be critical to the Cubs WC chances. I'm expecting a .500 split.

Clemens: 7 W Carpenter: 13 W Its stuff like this why I really dislike having other teams fans on this board. I dont want to bother dealing with homerism from other teams much less the Cubs. Chicagocardfan, you just dont get it. Everyone (95%) besides Card fans agree that Clemens should start. Carpenter is a great pitcher, no doubt, but just doesnt have the stats. You could even argue that Willis should start ahead: a) lower era b) same # of wins. I have an opinion. I backed up my opinion with stats. I've said several times that all 4 could start. I pointed out the difference in wins when jaydee left it out of the statline, nothing more. What this comes down to is how much you value Wins as a stat. I happen to think that it is an important stat, and it makes Carpenter the most rounded out starter of the group. If you don't agree with my opinion, that's fine, I don't have a problem with that. I'm just going to agree to disagree and move on. See everyone over in Rivalries... :thumright:

Clemens: 7 W Carpenter: 13 W

It's already begun. Ozzie/the team is a fraud. This smacks of bitterness and jealousy. Yes, they had a bad serious against Oakland (the A's have had their number and are playing excellent ball right now), but they are hardly, imo, about to begin some slide. The team is not a fraud and are headed for the post-season. GASP! How could you say such bitterness free logical things!

It's because we're both Salukis ;) Brooks signed with the Mavs btw! Back on topic, Aram, Lee, Pujols and Edmonds make a pretty awesome middle of the lineup! I'm glad Rolen is going to rest. He didn't deserve the start.

Well, that's a different animal. I wasn't talking about Lee. My opinion was with regard to Carpenter, and Lee has nothing to do with my observation and opinion there. I agree with both of you. I need to see Carp do it for an entire year. I think he will, as I think Lee will have a good 2nd half as well. Over/Under on DEEPUJOLS? I'm setting it at 15 posts...

This is the NL All Star team, not the Cardinals All Star team. Bottom line is that the best pitcher this year should be starting... and that's not Carpenter. In your opinion. If the situation was Dusty managing, and Prior had the same stat line as Carpenter, what would you want him to do? The Chicago media, this board, and most importantly his players would be furious if he didn't start Prior. Does Clemens have great #s? Yes. But he's only won 7 games. He got shelled in last years ASG, and Carpenter has been the best pitcher in baseball the last month and a half.

no, they don't. i'm fine with buehrle. clemens is being punished for 2 reasons 1. he's started before 2. larussa playing favorites carpenter has no business starting this game. 1. It can be debated. With 7 wins, I don't believe he should be the starter. His other #s support him, so I see your point. I don't agree, but that's because I think that Wins are an important stat. That, and Clemens got shelled in last years game. Of the other 2 pitchers, Carpenter has as many or more wins, more Ks a slightly higher ERA and lower WHIP. You can make a case for Clemens, but to say that Tony is playing favorites is a weak leg to stand on. Tony had 1 pick to make to fill out his squad, and he didn't pick a Cardinal. W K ERA WHIP Roger Clemens 7 112 1.48 0.95 Roy Oswalt 12 118 2.39 1.08 Dontrelle Willis 13 95 2.39 1.14 Chris Carpenter 13 128 2.51 1.07 Sweet lord. Wins are NOT an important stat for pitchers. How is it his fault that his team does not produce for him. Out of that group Clemens has the lowest ERA and the lowest WHIP. Those are important stats for pitchers. Wins, really, have nothing to do with the pitcher. A pitcher could go out and throw a perfect game every single time, but not win a single game. His team has to put up runs for him. So when a pitcher wins his 300th game it's not a big deal? I see your point, but to fans of the game outside of the statheads (guilty as charged) wins are an important stat. Sure, they're kind of like RBIs in that you have to have guys on base to drive in. You could pick any of those 4 pitchers and have arguments for the other 3. Bottom line, the Cards have the best record in the NL, Carp is the ace of the staff, and Tony is the Cards manager. If he had picked anyone other than Carp, he would have had hell to pay in St. Louis. And what kind of message would that have been to send to his team.

no, they don't. i'm fine with buehrle. clemens is being punished for 2 reasons 1. he's started before 2. larussa playing favorites carpenter has no business starting this game. 1. It can be debated. With 7 wins, I don't believe he should be the starter. His other #s support him, so I see your point. I don't agree, but that's because I think that Wins are an important stat. That, and Clemens got shelled in last years game. Of the other 2 pitchers, Carpenter has as many or more wins, more Ks a slightly higher ERA and lower WHIP. You can make a case for Clemens, but to say that Tony is playing favorites is a weak leg to stand on. Tony had 1 pick to make to fill out his squad, and he didn't pick a Cardinal. W K ERA WHIP Roger Clemens 7 112 1.48 0.95 Roy Oswalt 12 118 2.39 1.08 Dontrelle Willis 13 95 2.39 1.14 Chris Carpenter 13 128 2.51 1.07

Because they're Cardinal and Sox players, or because you don't think they're flashy like Pedro and Clemens?

They both deserve to start. A case can be made for other starters, but they are both solid picks. They have the stats, and their teams are the 2 best in baseball. Clemens doesn't have the Wins (and he got shelled last year), Willis just pitched (and not well) and Halladay has the broken leg.

Bonds has deserved it every year though, imo. I know. I just don't like the way he goes about his off the field business. Lee and Pujols are both players I can cheer for.

If the Cubs make the playoffs, or are in the hunt to the end, Lee wins the MVP. No question IMO. If the Cubs fall out of the race by the beginging of Sept and Lee cools down, Albert should win it. Right now I think it's a 50/50 to go either way. Much like the All-Star thing, I wouldn't be upset if either one was the MVP. (at least it won't be freaking Barry Bonds!)

same Likewise Ditto. Yup, me too. Here's hoping for only 3 missed starts.

I'm sure we could fit those and a few "Best Fans In Baseball" references in. Might as well keep them all in one thread.

Your dad wasn't around in 1945? Born in 48. The 69 Cubs ripped his heart out and jumped up and down on it. It's why he raised me a Card fan. He always told me it would be child abuse to raise me a Cub fan ;)