CubinNY

Baker also said he started Dubois against Tim Wakefield because he thought Wakefield's knuckleball might mess up Hollandsworth's stroke. How does that jibe with Baker's stated approach of putting rookies in situations to succeed and gain confidence? I hate to re-hash this debacle of a season but all one has to do is look at Hendry's comments from the convention and compare them to Dusty's comments in ST related to Dubios and Mr. Craptacular. They don't jive whatsoever. I can just see it. Five years from now someone on Dodger Blues will look up all the rookies that never got a chance under Dusty and mention how terrible Dubios turned out to be. The person will never mention he was competing for playing time against the likes of Todd hollandsworth and Jose Macis. Once again, I'll try an analogy. Pat Robertson and I are being chased by a lion. I don't have to be faster than the lion to not get eaten I only have to be faster than Rev. Robertson. The rookie doesn't have to be great he only has to be better than the veteran who he is competing for playing time. Holla was good when he was healthy last year. He got the benefit of the doubt for too long this year, but DuBois wasn't any better considering he can't field a lick. Whatever makes you happy. Hollandsworth was a real cracker jack out there

Baker also said he started Dubois against Tim Wakefield because he thought Wakefield's knuckleball might mess up Hollandsworth's stroke. How does that jibe with Baker's stated approach of putting rookies in situations to succeed and gain confidence? I hate to re-hash this debacle of a season but all one has to do is look at Hendry's comments from the convention and compare them to Dusty's comments in ST related to Dubios and Mr. Craptacular. They don't jive whatsoever. I can just see it. Five years from now someone on Dodger Blues will look up all the rookies that never got a chance under Dusty and mention how terrible Dubios turned out to be. The person will never mention he was competing for playing time against the likes of Todd hollandsworth and Jose Macis. Once again, I'll try an analogy. Pat Robertson and I are being chased by a lion. I don't have to be faster than the lion to not get eaten I only have to be faster than Rev. Robertson. The rookie doesn't have to be great he only has to be better than the veteran who he is competing for playing time.

Ah but there is the rub Tim. If a rookie plays in meaningless games then the teams will get the book on the rookie. Now if they already have the book on the wily veteran then it doesn't matter as much. However, the wily veteran may known that the teams has the book on him and may cross them up. It's all a matter of ball bearings and not going against a Sicilian when death is on the line.

This is about the 6th or 7th permutation of this arguemnt. It goes like this: Dusty can't be faulted for not playing rookies b/c he's never had a rookie who turned out to be any good. That is illogical for several reasons: 1. Affirming the consequent- The absense of evidence of goodness is a non sequiter. It is irrelavent. It is also drawing an affirmitive conclusion from a negative premise. Which leads to: 2. False premise- The said rookie does not have to go on and have great career to jusfify playing him over a vertran who has had a great career. I could dig up Babe Ruth's bones and throw them in RF and they would not be better than David Kelton. Even though Kelton will not have the career of Ruth. I would argue that if Dubios was given the opportuntiy to start in left field from Spring Training he would have out produced Hollandsworth this year. Instead he was given about five weeks of inconsistent starts under conditions that were not condusive to developing whatever talent he has. I could go on but I'll leave it at that. All we have to work on is Dusty's record. And the record shows he does not play young positions players if a "proven vetran" is available.

I'll take both Give Cincy a pick of Guzman or Dope plus Bacon and Williams Give Washingon Patterson and Patterson and Mitre or Nolasco Probably not realistic and not what you were asking for, but I'm getting giddy with end of the season trade talk.

Ok, if I were GM here is what I would do: 1. Go after Aubry Huff- The GM is one his way out so they may be easier to deal with. Huff made 4.9 mill last year (a bit over priced but he is coming into his prime). It is rumored that they are looking to move him for front end pitching rotation. I'd see if they would take back end and middle rotation plus a prospect (Mitre or Williams and Welly plus one of Craig/Doparik). Dope has DH written all over him Huff is having a terrible year so his value will not be any lower. 2. If Patterson is not willing to go and play winter ball and change his approach then I get rid of him for a bullpen arm. Maybe try and get Scott Shields from LAA for Patterson and a prospect (A ball). I would definately try to get him to the AL though. I am having a hard time with this one. If I have to trade Patterson then I will have to find another CFer. Damon is out b/c he will want more years and money then I am willing to give. Although I don't care for Lofton, I'd sign him for one year and hope like hell that Pie learns some discipline at the plate next year so I can bring him up at the ASB I keep Nomar and quietly explore trade opportunities for Aramis Rameriz. Very quiet. I would see who was willing to give up a young front end starting pitcher. If I can't trade Aramis I leave the infield the same. Does Boston have anyone??? I have no idea what to do about the bullpen b/c this always seems like a crap shoot to me. I guess I resign Dempster, keep Wurtz, Ohman, and Novoa and see what is out there in the free agent market. Batting order Lofton CF (L) Nomar SS ® Lee 1st ® Aramis 3rd ® Huff RF (L) Murton LF ® Walker 2nd (L) Barrett C ®

I thought Aardsma was supposed to be prjected as a quality BP arm. I'm I wrong?

I was going to make some snide comment about the author but I think Tim wrote it best.

I don't see it. Murton and Corey are nothing alike. Corey is blazing fast, Murton has good speed, but nothing special. Corey has true power hitter abilities. Corey uses a long swing, Murton is much more compact. Other than relative youth and the fact that they play in the OF, I don't see any comparison between the two. Corey will never have the patience of Murton, he could improve in that category, but he's always going to be a swing first type of player. I don't think Corey is a true power hitter. I think he is a 15 -25 HR a year HR hitter. I think that is part of his problem and also the reason why I made the post. Murton's plate approach and swing is what Corey should aspire towards. I'm not ready to give up on Patterson yet but he needs to drastically change his approach. I'm also not saying he can, but if he could I think Muton's would be the one to use. If he did so he could take atvantage of all his tools.

I agree, although I don't think he'd be a nice addition. IMO Manny will be in Met pin stripes next year, with either Beltran or Cameron wearing Boston Red. If Beltran comes over the Mets also send a prospect. If Cameron comes over Boston pays some money and the Mets send a prospect. I'd be willing to bet that Manny is a Met next year.

i'd maybe give him a .270/.335/.400, but, yeah, i think a lot of people are expecting a little much out of him. I would like to know why so many of you are expecting him to do so much worse next year. because if he put up these #'s over the course of a full season, he'd contend for a batting title and be one of the top 20 hitters in major league baseball. maybe i've got a negative attitude, but i just don't see that happening. i don't get too caught up in such a small sample size. unlike some others on here, i'm not ready to call him the next tony gwynn based on, what, 50 games? just like i'm not ready to write off rich hill or welly. I appreciate your and others (Tree, Rocket, and IMB) temperance in regard to Murton. It is important to not get caught up too much in end of the season heroics. Yet, from what I've seen Murton seems to understand is his limitations. He looks for pitches he can drive, and so far he hasn't missed many. Call it luck, call it small number of opportunites, however his approach at the plate hasn't seemed to change. With that approach and his hand speed he could be very productive. Probably not Tony Gwynn productive, but who is?. Nevertheless, there is is not much of difference between .330 and .280, less than an extra hit a week.

IMO Murton is the player that Patterson could become. Aside from handedness and skin color they are very similar. Both have lightning quick hands and very good speed. Obviously, Patterson is a better outfielder. If Corey could somehow forget that he thinks he is a power hitter and develops Murton's paitence they both could very productive players for many years to come. Just for the record, I think Murton could be a .300 hitter next year, but .280 isn't bad either with his paitence.

So....

The thing that Torre and Cahman are best at, up until recently at least, is managing Steinbrenner. Torre is the same manager who stunk in St. Louis and stunk in Atlanta. That is not to say he is a terrible manager but he has had lots and lots of talent to work with during his tenure in NY. Torre is loyal to a fault (See Tino Martinez) and has mis-handled his bull pen throughout his time in NY. However, he has had the one constant to save him and that is Mariano Rivera. I don't think he is the right man for the Cubs. I agree with UK and others, I'd like to see Deiker given a shot.

From our pal Bruce Miles: http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/cubs.asp?id=94432 I've never used this emoticon becuase frankly I hate it but this surely calls for it :roll:

Arguing along the same line as BK. It is not that Neifi is terrible, it's that Neifi is terrible and having a career year. It wouldn't be a problem if he were 26 or 27, but he is 32. What worries me is that the Cubs will not recognize this fact and give him the starting job in 06, just as they did Garry Giatti in the early 90s. I am happy Neifi has played relatively well this year (in compairson to his career numbers), but that doesn't mean he should be rewarded for his medicority.

Len, First off, I have to tell you that I was a big fan of Chip and Steve. I was fully prepared to not like you and Bob, however, you've won me over. I especially like the saber-analysis you do from time to time (I wish Dusty would listen though). Anyway, enough with the brown nosing. My question: Even though you mention the Cubs are still in it, is it tough for you to "get up" for a game when the team you broadcast for is playing out the season and has no realistic hope for the playoffs?

fixed, thanks

Michigan is getting badly out played and out coached. As a refugee from the land of the golden dome, it's painful to watch.

Two gems from Bruce http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/cubs.asp and http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/cubs.asp?id=93297 My favorite quote:

Others have typed it before, but there aren't many worse things then overspending on medicore (and worse) ball players. I'd like to see the Cubs invest the money into scouting (modern scouting not toolsy scouting) and development in Latin America and the Pacific Rim.

Getting rid of Hendry.

Well, written JC. I mostly just read here anymore (in baseball related discussions) as I don't know what to say about this organization. They can change the players, but as long as the philosophy and management doesn't change neither will the results.

I wouldn't put any stock in anything Hendry says. How many times has he made comments like this in the past only to see Dusty do the opposite? However, just for speculation purposes. What if Nomar is penciled in at 3rd, Nefury at short, Cedeno at 2nd, and Walker and Aramis are dealt. What kind of return could the Cubs get there???

so here we are about three weeks after I made this post. let's look and see what the Cards have been doing with Carpenter 8/19 5-4, 8+, 94 - a low pitch count game. LaRussa runs Carpenter out in the ninth trailing 0-2 and he gives up two more. 8/24 8-3, 8.0, 96 - a low pitch count game. the Cards put up a five spot in the top of the first and have a 6-2 lead going into the seventh. LaRussa leaves Carpenter in in another blow out. 8/29 6-1, 7.2, 94 - average pitch count for the point in the game. the Cards go into the bottom of the fifth with a 6-1 lead, but Carpenter is left in until he goes nearly 8. LaRussa chooses to use his two best right handers, Tavarez and Isringhausen, to mop up the final four outs with a five run lead. 9/3 4-2, 9, 120 - high pitch count in a duel between Clemens and Carpenter. Clemens is gone after 5 and the Cards take a 4-2 lead in the bottom of the seventh. LaRussa sticks with Carpenter to finish the game. I did some research on this after this debate, and the Card fans who said this is what LaRussa always has done were absolutely correct. LaRussa has kept the peddle down throughout the regular season. with his history of failure in the post season, you'd think he would learn his lesson. let's do a cursory review 1983 White Sox - the White Sox clinch their division earlier than any other team in baseball history. Lamar Hoyt, Richard Dotson, and Floyd Bannister are leaned on heavily, 261, 241, 217 innings respectively. Bannister gives up 4 in six innings in game two, Bannister is shelled in game three. the White Sox bow out of the playoffs to the O's. 1988 A's - the A's win the division by 13 games. Sterart 275, Welch 244, Davis 202. LaRussa refuses to go to a four man rotation in the post season. the World Series is dominated by the Dodgers pitching. Davis gives up six in game two. and Stewart gives up four in seven innings. Davis gives up four runs in four innings in the clinching game 5. the A's lose the World Series. 1989 A's - the A's win their division by 7 games. LaRussa eases up a little on his starters. Stewart 258, Moore 242, Welch 210, Davis 169. he goes with a four man rotation in the playoffs, and only needs two starters in the WS because of the earthquake. A's win it all 1990 A's - the A's win their division by 9 games. Stewart 267, Welch 238, Sanderson 206, Moore 199. the A's pitching dominates the playoffs giving up only 4 runs to the RedSox, but LaRussa is back to a three man rotation. Stewart and Moor get shelled in games 1 and 3. A's are swept in the WS. 1996 Cards - they win a woeful Central by six games. Benes 230, Stottleyer 223, Benes 191, Osborne 199. Again he goes with a three man rotation in the playoffs. Cards sweep in the first round and lose the Championship series, including losses of 14-0 and 15-0 after taking a 3-1 lead in the series. 2000 Cards - Cards win division by 10 games. Kile 232, Hentgen 194, Stephenson 200. Cards sweep the Braves in the division series, mostly due to their offence, but neither Ankiel or Stephenson stay in the game long enough to get a W. Ankiel melts down and both Hentgen and Kile get shelled in a 4-1 series loss. 2001 Cards - Cards win WC by two games over the Giants. Kile 227, Morris 216. the Cards lose in the divisional playoffs. Morris and Kile hold up ok. too much Schilling-Johnson for the Cards to handle. 2002 Cards - Cards win the division by 13 games. Morris 210, Williams 220, Finley 185. Cards win divisional with a good start from Morris and great bullpen work in the other two games (Finley goes six and pitches well, Benes pitches into the fifth. Morris is shelled in game one of the Championship series, Finley is roughted up in his start. Cards lose series 4-1. 2004 Cards - Cards blow out the division, but LaRussa refuses to use a sixth starter until Carpenter gets nerve damage in his arm. they walk through the Dodgers. they have alot of trouble with an inferior Astros team and win a seven game series in which a Cards starter makes it into the seventh only once. in the WS, the Cards starters ERAs/IP Marquis 3.86/7.0 Suppan 7.71/4.2 Morris 8.31/4.1 Williams 27.00/2.1 year after year LaRussa has teams that blowout their division, he refuses to rest his starters, and his starters fail him in the post season. he's one of the best regular season managers in history, but pretty much chokes his shot at the big prize year after year, despite having superior teams to those he faces almost every year. Maybe, just maybe if he saved them a few innings here and there throughout the regular season LaRussa wouldn't contiually see his starters get shelled in the post season. Cub fans all saw it in 03 with Prior, Wood and Z, but the Cubs needed nearly every game to make the playoffs. LaRussa's teams have been in that position only once. you'd think he would learn his lesson, and you would think all Card fans would stop supporting some of his stupid philosphies, such as needlessly pushing his starters in the regular season. Nice analysis. Well done. We'll have to see what happens. However, history favors another disapointing post season for TLR.