CubinNY

I don't think Neifi is an everyday player. I don't think he is worth $1 million. However, I think he has become a symbol for everything that is wrong with the way Dusty Baker manages the ball club. I think many times the vitriol directed toward Neifi is misplaced. He is a competent back up. I think he should serve the Macis role. But that is the problem, I don't think Dusty thinks like me.

I think you raise some good questions. But IMO this is done outside of baseball. I don't think the owners cared but I don't think they were complicit. I think they can be held accountable through neglagence rather than anything overt. I also think too much is made of steriods (at least in baseball). I think their main benefit to baseball players is recovery time and muscle plasticity much more so then helping a medicore player become a good player or a good player a great one.

This type of crap comes up everytime a majorly bad event or election happens. These bastards are writing a new chapter to The Prince.

I hate you,because you are correct. I thake that back, I hate myself. No, I take that back, I hate the Cubs No, I hate the Cubs management. Ah, anybody got any Zanex?

Mr. Miles is a lot like Batman. We throw up the Bruce signal and he comes. In all seriousness, thanks a lot for sharing the inside information. We really appreciate that you choose to post here.

I don't know anything about what Murton believes. But here is what I would say if I was a callup rookie trying to make a good impression. "Dusty has been great. I mean he has told me how he was going to get me into games and for the most part he has done it. I appreciate the fact that he has let me get myself settled and not, you know, thrown me in the deep end so to speak." If I'm a callup rookie with Murtons numbers here is what I think, "I'm better than Hariston and I'm better than Hollandsworth, and I should be playing everyday."

Sorry, I don't want to hijack this thread but does anyone know were to find/remember where is the thread where we made preseason predictions. I've been looking for about an hour and can't find it. I think I was pretty close I think I had NL East- Brave NL Central- Cards NL West- Padres WC- Phillies AL East- Yankees AL Central- Twins Al West- LAA WC- Boston If my memory is correct I will only be off on AL Central and NL WC.

Well then Dusty should stop playing craps with the Cub players. He seems to be crapping out a lot. However, it is not as simple as that. Dusty didn't roll the dice. He made a decision and stuck with it even when it showed to be not in the best interest of the team. He is a piss poor excuse for a manager. You can rationalize all you want, but the rationalization will not change the facts.

Oh so that's the point... So just more nitpicking over craptacular and crap sandwich. (See Holla v. DuBois for more) You can certianly say that for Hollandsworth but not for Dubios. We cannot redo history so we will never know what kind of player he would have been this year if given a real chance to succeed. Everytime he started his job was on the line. No margin for error, no 0 fors. So one cannot argue with you, as someone else pointed out, that is the beauty (if you want to call it that) of your and Dusty's logic. It is not falsifiable, but it is illogical. We'll see if DuBois is any good over the next 3 year. If not, I'll rip all those who thought he'd be good, and treat them like a bunch of Dusty's and Neifi's. :o I'll try to type slow. It does not matter one iota what Dubios does for the rest of his career. What matters is it is Dusty's job to put the team in the best position to win. Hollandsworth was a known entitiy. An entity who was likely to be worse than medicore if given the everyday job. Dubois had very good numbers in every level of minor league ball. Yet when Hollandsworth demonstrated his value, he still started. That is all that matters.

Oh so that's the point... So just more nitpicking over craptacular and crap sandwich. (See Holla v. DuBois for more) You can certianly say that for Hollandsworth but not for Dubios. We cannot redo history so we will never know what kind of player he would have been this year if given a real chance to succeed. Everytime he started his job was on the line. No margin for error, no 0 fors. So one cannot argue with you, as someone else pointed out, that is the beauty (if you want to call it that) of your and Dusty's logic. It is not falsifiable, but it is illogical.

Look, I'm not saying that this quote changes anything about Dusty Baker. I still would like to see him go. I disagree with a lot of his decisions. But I think this quote is pretty solid evidence that this thread is another example of us being overly eager to find things to criticize him for. Isn't it enough that he bats guys with terrible OBP at the top of the order? Isn't enough that he failed to rally his team to victory when Wood and Nomar returned? Isn't it enough that he isn't the best at managing a bullpen so that guys stay sharp? Isn't it enough that he overvalues major league experience? Do you really have to twist his words or assume the worst about what he says to whip him some more? I think it is classless of us, and I think were better than this, but so what? That's just my opinion. What matters is that the assumptions made about Baker in this case are inaccurate unless you believe that Murton had a metaphorical gun to his head when he said the above quote. What did you expect Murton to say? "Hey, Dusty is as stuborne as a jack ass. All I've done is hit since I got here and the ignoramus plays Hollandsworth over me. What a buffone. He has to be one of the worst managers for bringing up you position players in the modern era of baseball." Dusty is Murtons manager for crying out loud.

??? how can you say that? if he used steroids (and he probably did), he's a cheater. i don't know how you can say he's the best player of our life time if he's known to take steroids. I know how you feel becuase I feel the same way. If he used steroids he was taking an unfair atvantage. I still think he is the best baseball player of the last 70 years. I wish I could say otherwise.

From what I've read neither is the GM.

Best baseball player of our life time (last 70 years), steriods or no steriods. Tough guy to like off the field I know I've posted this anecdote before but it still amazes me. When I lived in Florida I took my wife to see SF play the Marlins (or Marleenz as the locals say it). Anyway, in his first at bat he hits a BROKEN BAT HR right down the right filed line. Aside from seeing Prior get hit on the elbow eariler this year, it was the most incredible thing I've ever seen in person at a ballgame.

. This is not a personal attack, but referencing some defensive stats can make one look quite foolish and deminish any credibilty from his or her other posts. Makes me wonder if some watch games or just read box scores Yes because statistics can be deceiving and our perceptions of reality are never wrong. Makes me wonder if some still use flint to start a fire. This is not a personal attack

Baker also said he started Dubois against Tim Wakefield because he thought Wakefield's knuckleball might mess up Hollandsworth's stroke. How does that jibe with Baker's stated approach of putting rookies in situations to succeed and gain confidence? I hate to re-hash this debacle of a season but all one has to do is look at Hendry's comments from the convention and compare them to Dusty's comments in ST related to Dubios and Mr. Craptacular. They don't jive whatsoever. I can just see it. Five years from now someone on Dodger Blues will look up all the rookies that never got a chance under Dusty and mention how terrible Dubios turned out to be. The person will never mention he was competing for playing time against the likes of Todd hollandsworth and Jose Macis. Once again, I'll try an analogy. Pat Robertson and I are being chased by a lion. I don't have to be faster than the lion to not get eaten I only have to be faster than Rev. Robertson. The rookie doesn't have to be great he only has to be better than the veteran who he is competing for playing time. Holla was good when he was healthy last year. He got the benefit of the doubt for too long this year, but DuBois wasn't any better considering he can't field a lick. Whatever makes you happy. Hollandsworth was a real cracker jack out there

Baker also said he started Dubois against Tim Wakefield because he thought Wakefield's knuckleball might mess up Hollandsworth's stroke. How does that jibe with Baker's stated approach of putting rookies in situations to succeed and gain confidence? I hate to re-hash this debacle of a season but all one has to do is look at Hendry's comments from the convention and compare them to Dusty's comments in ST related to Dubios and Mr. Craptacular. They don't jive whatsoever. I can just see it. Five years from now someone on Dodger Blues will look up all the rookies that never got a chance under Dusty and mention how terrible Dubios turned out to be. The person will never mention he was competing for playing time against the likes of Todd hollandsworth and Jose Macis. Once again, I'll try an analogy. Pat Robertson and I are being chased by a lion. I don't have to be faster than the lion to not get eaten I only have to be faster than Rev. Robertson. The rookie doesn't have to be great he only has to be better than the veteran who he is competing for playing time.

Ah but there is the rub Tim. If a rookie plays in meaningless games then the teams will get the book on the rookie. Now if they already have the book on the wily veteran then it doesn't matter as much. However, the wily veteran may known that the teams has the book on him and may cross them up. It's all a matter of ball bearings and not going against a Sicilian when death is on the line.

This is about the 6th or 7th permutation of this arguemnt. It goes like this: Dusty can't be faulted for not playing rookies b/c he's never had a rookie who turned out to be any good. That is illogical for several reasons: 1. Affirming the consequent- The absense of evidence of goodness is a non sequiter. It is irrelavent. It is also drawing an affirmitive conclusion from a negative premise. Which leads to: 2. False premise- The said rookie does not have to go on and have great career to jusfify playing him over a vertran who has had a great career. I could dig up Babe Ruth's bones and throw them in RF and they would not be better than David Kelton. Even though Kelton will not have the career of Ruth. I would argue that if Dubios was given the opportuntiy to start in left field from Spring Training he would have out produced Hollandsworth this year. Instead he was given about five weeks of inconsistent starts under conditions that were not condusive to developing whatever talent he has. I could go on but I'll leave it at that. All we have to work on is Dusty's record. And the record shows he does not play young positions players if a "proven vetran" is available.

I'll take both Give Cincy a pick of Guzman or Dope plus Bacon and Williams Give Washingon Patterson and Patterson and Mitre or Nolasco Probably not realistic and not what you were asking for, but I'm getting giddy with end of the season trade talk.

Ok, if I were GM here is what I would do: 1. Go after Aubry Huff- The GM is one his way out so they may be easier to deal with. Huff made 4.9 mill last year (a bit over priced but he is coming into his prime). It is rumored that they are looking to move him for front end pitching rotation. I'd see if they would take back end and middle rotation plus a prospect (Mitre or Williams and Welly plus one of Craig/Doparik). Dope has DH written all over him Huff is having a terrible year so his value will not be any lower. 2. If Patterson is not willing to go and play winter ball and change his approach then I get rid of him for a bullpen arm. Maybe try and get Scott Shields from LAA for Patterson and a prospect (A ball). I would definately try to get him to the AL though. I am having a hard time with this one. If I have to trade Patterson then I will have to find another CFer. Damon is out b/c he will want more years and money then I am willing to give. Although I don't care for Lofton, I'd sign him for one year and hope like hell that Pie learns some discipline at the plate next year so I can bring him up at the ASB I keep Nomar and quietly explore trade opportunities for Aramis Rameriz. Very quiet. I would see who was willing to give up a young front end starting pitcher. If I can't trade Aramis I leave the infield the same. Does Boston have anyone??? I have no idea what to do about the bullpen b/c this always seems like a crap shoot to me. I guess I resign Dempster, keep Wurtz, Ohman, and Novoa and see what is out there in the free agent market. Batting order Lofton CF (L) Nomar SS ® Lee 1st ® Aramis 3rd ® Huff RF (L) Murton LF ® Walker 2nd (L) Barrett C ®

I thought Aardsma was supposed to be prjected as a quality BP arm. I'm I wrong?

I was going to make some snide comment about the author but I think Tim wrote it best.

I don't see it. Murton and Corey are nothing alike. Corey is blazing fast, Murton has good speed, but nothing special. Corey has true power hitter abilities. Corey uses a long swing, Murton is much more compact. Other than relative youth and the fact that they play in the OF, I don't see any comparison between the two. Corey will never have the patience of Murton, he could improve in that category, but he's always going to be a swing first type of player. I don't think Corey is a true power hitter. I think he is a 15 -25 HR a year HR hitter. I think that is part of his problem and also the reason why I made the post. Murton's plate approach and swing is what Corey should aspire towards. I'm not ready to give up on Patterson yet but he needs to drastically change his approach. I'm also not saying he can, but if he could I think Muton's would be the one to use. If he did so he could take atvantage of all his tools.

I agree, although I don't think he'd be a nice addition. IMO Manny will be in Met pin stripes next year, with either Beltran or Cameron wearing Boston Red. If Beltran comes over the Mets also send a prospect. If Cameron comes over Boston pays some money and the Mets send a prospect. I'd be willing to bet that Manny is a Met next year.