CubinNY

I think it is a bit early to make predictions but here goes mine NL East: NY Mets NL Central: Milwaukee Brewers NL West: SF (with Bonds) LAD if no Bonds NL Wild Card: St. Louis AL East: Toronto AL Central: Minnesota, Ozzie's luck will not hold AL West: Oakland AL Wild Card: NY Yankees NL Champs: Milwaukee Al Champs: Oakland World Series Champs: Milwaukee CubinNY goes to Vegas and collects $6,000

Let the season begin! Poor White Sox fans. The Sox win the WS and all they can do is obsess over a bunch of loosers like us. So much hate so little time...I guess. EDIT: or poor Cardinals fan, you know the rest of the story.

Aside from better than average eyesight and foot speed I cannot think of one tool that a baseball player can be born with. However, the question is, can pitch recognition, plate discipline, and hittiing for power be developed later in life then little league? I would have to anwser yes. If not, why have coaches? Patence can be taught, pitch recognition can be taught. I had really crappy little league coaches but when I got to high school our coach preached plate discipline and "hitting your pitch". We practiced it. During BP we were not encouraged to swing away even if it mean we only took 5 or 6 swings in 40 pitches.

Mckeon was pretty laid back. I wonder if Joe will mello with age or become a Buck Showalter.

Especially if he puts up crappy numbers. If Jones puts up numbers similar to his last two years Hendry will either have to take a bad contract back or trade him for pennys on the dollar

9 days. The Superbowl is over, it is time for baseball!

10 days. Almost to single digits

You can't include either. Willis spent a year + in Florida's system before making it. You can't give the Cubs credit for developing and motivating him into the majors. So can the Cubs now take credit for developing and motivating Murton into the majors? He was in the Cubs system for a year before he came up to the majors, too. You can't have it both ways. Willis had his breakthrough season in the Cubs organization and then maintain that growth with the Marlins. Who gets to claim that they developed him? I don't see how anyone could defend a position that it was clearly one team or another. Same with Murton. Murton was clearly recognized as a good hitter before he came to the Cubs and was in the Boston organization much longer, but his breakthrough season came with the Cubs. Is it clear and obvious that his improvement had absolutely nothing to do with any of the Cubs instructors or coaches? No, just as it is not provable that they did cause his breakout performance. It seems pretty clear to me that some people will choose to think the Cubs were foolish for needlessly protecting Cedeno the year they did and others will think that given his upside, they were smart not to risk losing him even though it was a small risk to take. I don't think there is enough evidence to prove one is clearly the more accurate interpretation. Its a matter of perspective. Clearly, Cubs management has made some poor decisions. And they have made some excellent ones. There is plenty of evidence on both sides of the argument over whether Cubs management has improved this organization over the last 11 years or whether they have failed at their jobs. No one is stupid for holding either opinion. It is all a matter of perspective. As I believe this question of Cedeno is, as well. I hope Ronny makes Hendry look like Shurhholtz. But I think the evidence is pretty clear that he is not. Why the heck are people so afraid to admit the Cubs management might do some things wrong? As one of my professors use to say, "the proof of the process is in the product." Since MacPhail and Hendry took over the Cubs a decade ago they have had three medicore seasons and one decent season and still haven't cracked 90 wins with an escalating payroll every year. Did you read the post you responded to? In it, I wrote that there is evidence on both sides of the argument. That Cubs management has made some poor decisions and some excellent ones. So who is afraid to admit that "Cubs mgmt. might do some things wrong"? Who is claiming that Hendry is as good as Schuerholtz? Who is even comparing the two? My post was about how the reality of the situation is probably somewhere in the middle of many of the perspectives on this board. I readily acknowledge the mistakes made by Cubs management. I also see a lot of things that they have done to improve the organization. I don't think that you are afraid to admit that they have done a lot of things right, are you? So why are you accusing me/people of being afraid to admit that they do some things poorly? Maybe we can lose the extremism and the division of Cubs fans into one faction or the other. Maybe we can realize that our perspective isn't the only valid perspective out there, and we can allow for someone who disagrees with my take on things to actually have some valid points. Maybe its time we start recognizing our common ground in threads like these. Nah, what fun would that be... I saw what you wrote. I should have not quoted you, it was my mistake. No excuse, I had to go and didn't have time to edit it. But the question stands as a rhetorical one. I don't think there is anyone who posts here that thinks Hendry has not made ANY good decisions. I get frustraded that it appears that some deny reality b/c the Cubs are historicaly better then they have been. During the Mcpahial/Hendry tenure the Cubs have never been good as defined by record or outcome. To me the Cedeno rostering proves absolutely nothing.

Was '99 when they lost 13 in a row to begin the season? I remember sliding down to front row seats behind the Cubs dugout right before the 11th loss in Shea screaming, "Today's the day Riggs! Get the boys up." And getting blank stairs from the Cub players. What a pathetic bunch. 1997 Thanks. I think??

Was '99 when they lost 13 in a row to begin the season? I remember sliding down to front row seats behind the Cubs dugout right before the 11th loss in Shea screaming, "Today's the day Riggs! Get the boys up." And getting blank stairs from the Cub players. What a pathetic bunch.

You can't include either. Willis spent a year + in Florida's system before making it. You can't give the Cubs credit for developing and motivating him into the majors. So can the Cubs now take credit for developing and motivating Murton into the majors? He was in the Cubs system for a year before he came up to the majors, too. You can't have it both ways. Willis had his breakthrough season in the Cubs organization and then maintain that growth with the Marlins. Who gets to claim that they developed him? I don't see how anyone could defend a position that it was clearly one team or another. Same with Murton. Murton was clearly recognized as a good hitter before he came to the Cubs and was in the Boston organization much longer, but his breakthrough season came with the Cubs. Is it clear and obvious that his improvement had absolutely nothing to do with any of the Cubs instructors or coaches? No, just as it is not provable that they did cause his breakout performance. It seems pretty clear to me that some people will choose to think the Cubs were foolish for needlessly protecting Cedeno the year they did and others will think that given his upside, they were smart not to risk losing him even though it was a small risk to take. I don't think there is enough evidence to prove one is clearly the more accurate interpretation. Its a matter of perspective. Clearly, Cubs management has made some poor decisions. And they have made some excellent ones. There is plenty of evidence on both sides of the argument over whether Cubs management has improved this organization over the last 11 years or whether they have failed at their jobs. No one is stupid for holding either opinion. It is all a matter of perspective. As I believe this question of Cedeno is, as well. I hope Ronny makes Hendry look like Shurhholtz. But I think the evidence is pretty clear that he is not. Why the heck are people so afraid to admit the Cubs management might do some things wrong? As one of my professors use to say, "the proof of the process is in the product." Since MacPhail and Hendry took over the Cubs a decade ago they have had three medicore seasons and one decent season and still haven't cracked 90 wins with an escalating payroll every year.

For which team is pitching not the key? Hell, if the first four pirates pitchers pitch as well as everyone expects, we'll win the division. It may be a lot of 1-0 games, but we can still win them. If Kip pitches like 2003. If Ollie pitches like 2004. If Zach pitches like he did in his short 2005. If Maholom pitches like he did in his short 2005. Then, we'll win the division. Whatever. Who put the bee in your bonnett?

Maybe this dude is in denial like I am. I hope the guy they got for JVB ends up performing well

A dozen

Unforunately, that's what we've said for the past two years. I agree and they still have three pretty decent starters. If they add Huff or another RBI guy to go along with Berkman they will be tough. To me, the key for the Cubs is obvious, pitching. Lee will likely regress a little, Aramis hopefully will produce, but the Cubs have to find someone to step up in the five slot and table set in the two slot. Pierre will be fine at the top of the order. Hopefully Walker comes out hot in ST and then produces at career norms, that would go a long way to solidifying the lineup. I am optimistic about Murton and Cedeno but I don't think we should count on either of them to be diffence makers. All and all, I am hopeful but not optimistic.

True, but striking out is better than hitting into a double play. I wish Neifie would have struck out a little more last year. I think that is part of goony's point. A weak roller to the 2nd baseman withh a runnner on first is much worse than a K.

YESYESYES process, not results. That's all well and good...and I agree with that mantra. However, that being said...isn't that a mantra that supports looking at the reasoning behind why Sisco was left off of the 40 man roster and not calling it a bad move simply because of his subsequent success with the Royals? I mean, people can't use that saying when it supports their "side" of the matter and then ignore it when it supports the other, can they? I mean, isn't that what is commonly referred to as "having your cake and eating it too?" No. having your cake and eating it too would be when someone asks "honest" questions so they can bait people into pointless arguments. I am happy the Cubs have Ronny and hope he does well. If not, Neifi would be starting and nobody wants that. bad move leaving Sisco unprotected. Bad move putting Cedeno on the 40 man. I think that is pretty consistent. I am not all that clear on how it works, but I do know putting guys on the 40 man who shouldn't be starts clocks that shouldn't be started, forces other guys off or forces trades to be made that maybe shouldn't be made.

YESYESYES process, not results. process and results!

I thought they were going to try and lock-up Pierre long term. This doesn't mean they can't. They've done this lots of times _ avoid arbitration and then sign a guy to a multiyear deal in spring training. Let's hope this is not that case this time. I want to see what he does b/f the Cubs offer him a muliti year deal.

What didn't they see in Sisco that other did? The fact that Cedeno was protected does not validate anything. Even a blind dog finds a bone every once in a while. The recent past suggests that Hendry has done a terrible job of managing the 40 man roster. It's not just Sisco but many others as well. I wish the search was available b/ce we've discussed this ad nauseum. Is it really that difficult to give credit where credit is due? As for Sisco, at the rate he was going with for the Cubs, he wasn't progressing. He had bad work habits and was overweight. While the talent was there, his attitude was not. I can certainly see why they didn't think that he would be able to stick on a major league roster last year. Being exposed to the draft might have been the best thing for him. All indications show that he used that experience to put a chip on his shoulder and gain some focus. We'll see how he does the next few years...to see if he does or does not revert back to his old form. It is not hard to give credit. I dont't see why Hendry should be given credit for sticking a guy on the 40 man who had the numbers Cedeno did. a) no one would have drafted him b) he wasn't going to stick on a ML roster. You can hide a pitcher you cannot hide a SS. If that is the case I want credit for driving 80 mph in a 45 zone and not getting a ticket. In other words, just because the outcome worked out alright does not make what was done a good idea.

What didn't they see in Sisco that other did? The fact that Cedeno was protected does not validate anything. Even a blind dog finds a bone every once in a while. The recent past suggests that Hendry has done a terrible job of managing the 40 man roster. It's not just Sisco but many others as well. I wish the search was available b/ce we've discussed this ad nauseum.

13 days left until pitchers and catchers report. =P~

Don't even think it 'cuse.

I tend to agree. As long as there is a healthy profit going forward, then a Tribune purchaser may chose to retain the asset. The likelihood of a national media outlet retaining the Cubs is further increased by the fact that the Cubs have a rare national following that raises there value to a national media outlet. I don't know much but I think the Cubs are not that profitable from a coprorate perspective. I think I read something to the extent that they saw a profit of 4 million dollars in 2003. That is not big money. Most of the owners own teams not to make money but as a vanity project. I think the era of corporate baseball will end soon. They just don't make enough money.

Blasphemer!!!!!!!!!!!!! sorry :wink: I know. Ron is absolutely terrible. He is so bad, well, he is so bad, he is good. I love listening on the computer but I have to monitor the game thread here to know eaxactly what is going on. I love listening to Pat and Ron becuase the greatness of one is completely mitagated by the badness of the other. They are the yin and yang of radio baseball. To me listening to the two of them is high entertainment. Especially when the Cubs are playing poorly. Nobody whines better than Ronny. However, I can see where people would disagree.