CubinNY

Wow, Clemens threw 115 pitches in 5 innings. I'd say it's time to hang up the spikes Rog.

What, no Jimmy Edmonds? Oh, that's right you meant actual web gems. Nicely done.

I'd trade Walker for Victor Diaz. Diaz can play second (not well). He's rotting in AAA, kind of like Hill.

I disagree. First, the Cubs may want to limit Guzman's innings this year, given how little he's thrown since 2003. Second, they may have wanted to work on his mechanics. Third, the more time he spends in the majors, the less nervous he will be when he's a starter in 2007. I disagree with your disagree. First, if the Cubs want to limit Guzman's innings have him on a pitch count. Having him sit on the bench for 2+ weeks is no way to develop whatever talent he has. Second, how can he work on his mechanics if he never pitches in game situations? Third, how in the wide, wide, world of sports does sitting on the bench help him to not be nervous when he's pitching? Your logic escapes me.

I agree with the previous two posters.

I hope they can at least get a decent prospect for him. But that might be asking for too much. With guys like Slappy, Walker, Nevin, Hill, and Maddux potentially on the block I hope the Cubs can manage to get at least one guy who will contribute something toward the future. But I expect they'll get guys like Andy Pratt, Bo Flowers, or some other such talent in return.

You've got to be kidding me? He's a rookie. I cannot believe how quickly some people want to give up on young players. Who said anything about giving up? Teams need good 4th OFers, including the Cubs. I think Murton would be an excellent platoon player and OF backup. He simply doesn't have anything even close to the power needed to be a serious fulltime corner OFer. Sure, that could change, but he has a long way to go. I'd like to see Murton stick around, but I'd start Carlos Lee over him in a heartbeat. I'd say saying Muton will be a good 4th outfielder is writing him off. Carlos Lee at $10 mill year/5years. No thanks. Carlos Lee is not that good. He's not. Especially at the price he will command.

Wow. So, if Pierre continues his retched season, Hendry is gonna offer him arbritration in hopes of getting a draft pick? What happens when he accepts and gets $9M/year? Jim Hendry is a moron. This buffoonery is only going to keep setting us back. This comedy of errors is a trainwreck. Do people actually read before spinning out of control? Hendry didn't say he was offering arbitration to Pierre. A poster here made that leap, and others ran with it. It's not possible Hendry expects Pierre, in a weak FA class for CF, to get signed before arbitration time? I don't understand why there is no middle ground on this board. It's always extreme or bust. Hendry is right - the team doesn't need to be blown up. Half the position players should and will stay. Barret, Lee, Ramirez, Cedeno, and Jones are all Cubs next year. That's a solid core. LF, CF, and 2B are the changes needed. Those are tweaks, not bombs. Most of the pitching the stays. Zambrano, Marshall, (one other kid from the 5 to choose from), Howry, Eyre, Dempster all return. Likely Prior as well, though he could be moved. But that leaves 2 starters and a couple of bullpen slots. Tweaks, not hand grenades. I don't understand why Hendry is getting railed here. He is correct. What this team needs is another very good starter and a stud in the OF. Have you looked at the stats of this year's Cubs team? Another year of tweaking might make this team mediocre... if everything goes right.

You've got to be kidding me? He's a rookie. I cannot believe how quickly some people want to give up on young players. In Maddux first season he showed he might be a 5th starter. ----------------- In Adruw Jones' first full season in the bigs he put up this line .231/.316/416 Grady Sizemore put up this line .289/.348/.484 Vernon Wells put up this line. .275/.305/.457 Alex Rios put up this line. .262/.306/.397 All four of those guys are all-stars this year.

I can't talk to Hendry. The Cubs are on pace to lose a hundred games. The Cubs record tells me there isn't enough talent on this team. Hendry has been tweaking for three years and every year they get worse. If it walks like a pig, squeals like a pig, and looks like a pig, it's a pig.

This is a hundred loss team. http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/cubs.asp?id=204685

Larry?

No, it's not bad. And I just showed you that it's not bad. And it's hardly slightly above terrible, or any other ridiculous hyperbole you'd like to use. Get over your dislike of him for two seconds and acknowledge the FACT that his batting average is good. And as for your last statement, how else would you like to evaluate minor leaguers if you don't want to look at their stats relative to their competition? You compare a player's numbers to the best numbers of players playing his position in the minors. Then you look to see if the person is old or young for his league. Compaing a player to league averages is ok for a major leaguer but the vast majority of minor leaguers never make it. Why compare a player to a guy who isn't good enough to move up a league? His batting average would be good if he also had an OPS of .950 or an OBP of .390 for his career, but alas his doesn't. I don't hate Pagen. I have nothing against him.

The problem is that very few FA each year are worth pursuing as a difference maker. The vast majority are missing pieces and bench guys. The question then becomes are they worth what they will get. In the past the Cubs have passed on Thome, Beltran, and Vlad to name a few. I would have been happy if the Cubs got any of those guys (without the benefit of hindsight). They have signed guys like Maddux, Eyre, Howery, Remmlinger, and Hawkins to name a few. Without the benefit of hindsight I was only happy about Hawkins. If someone advocates for Carlos Lee and his big dollar contract I would think that that person thinks Lee is a difference maker. Same with Zito.

No, it's actually not. The league average for the AA and AAA leagues ranges from .247 to .269. So again, it's wrong to say that Pagan can't hit. About how many prospects hit .250/.260 for their minor league career and make it to the bigs? I have no idea... but what does that have to do with anything? We're talking about Pagan, who isn't a .260 hitter. He's a .282 career minor league hitter - which is good, whether you want to admit it or not. Good question. 25 man roster complications for the Mets, I would guess. And I'm not saying that he's "so good." I am saying that he can hit though. And that's all I have been saying in this thread. That's the only thing in Jon's post that I took issue with. You are comparing Pagan to a bunch of guys that never make it to the majors and proclaiming that his numbers are good. Here's an analgoy compared to an 80 year old I am a pretty fast runner. Hitting .282 for a 5 or 6 year career in the minors is bad. It's just slightly above terrible, given his other offensive numbers. Using minor league averages as a bench mark for a prospect is not valid. Come on, hitting .282 is not bad, there are plenty of guys that make it and hit .280 in the minor leagues. However, that .280 isn't exactly a strength, in order to be a guy who's going to "hit for average" as a major leaguer, you need to do better than .280. As it pertains to Pagan, he does not get on base or hit for any power, and since he doesn't hit for enough average for that to be a particular strength, you have a pretty crummy offensive player.

No, it's actually not. The league average for the AA and AAA leagues ranges from .247 to .269. So again, it's wrong to say that Pagan can't hit. About how many prospects hit .250/.260 for their minor league career and make it to the bigs? I have no idea... but what does that have to do with anything? We're talking about Pagan, who isn't a .260 hitter. He's a .282 career minor league hitter - which is good, whether you want to admit it or not. Good question. 25 man roster complications for the Mets, I would guess. And I'm not saying that he's "so good." I am saying that he can hit though. And that's all I have been saying in this thread. That's the only thing in Jon's post that I took issue with. You are comparing Pagan to a bunch of guys that never make it to the majors and proclaiming that his numbers are good. Here's an analgoy compared to an 80 year old I am a pretty fast runner. Hitting .282 for a 5 or 6 year career in the minors is bad. It's just slightly above terrible, given his other offensive numbers. Using minor league averages as a bench mark for a prospect is not valid.

Murton's fate is very tied to anyone with a pulse on the roster who could conceivably play LF. Might not be fair, but that's the deal right now. Murton's problem is baseball philosophy. Not his, but those who currently run baseball teams. He is (or was) a patient line drive hitter capeable of a great BA and OBP but not a lot of SLG. But he plays a corner outfiled position where he's supposed to be a power hitter. He doesn't fit Dusty/Hendry's mold. Imagine if Mark Grace came up today. That's Murton.

No, it's actually not. The league average for the AA and AAA leagues ranges from .247 to .269. So again, it's wrong to say that Pagan can't hit. About how many prospects hit .250/.260 for their minor league career and make it to the bigs? To move up you need to be way above average and .282 isn't that, especially with his OBP and SLG numbers. If he's so good, why did the Cubs get purchase him for $10,000? This isn't MLB numbers we're talking about. Pagan has had limited experience in the bigs. His minor league numbers say he's not that good. Maybe he'll be one of the few who break the trend and make it, but I wouldn't put any money on it.

Can't hit? He's a .282 career hitter and can't hit? Can't hit for power would be more appropriate, but it's flat out false to say that he can't hit. .282 for a career average in the minors is pretty bad. Especially with those peripheral numbers. His numbers stink, the Cubs purchased him for $10,000 from the Mets.

U of M has the same problem as the Cubs. Head coach. Carr is outcoached every game. Go Columbia Lions!

Cubs stink.

It's not that I'm adamantly opposed to Carlos Lee. I just disagree strongly with people who insinaute he's a no brainer. My baseball related attention span has shrunk a lot this year, so I'm not sure what is available. But I wouldn't have a problem trading assets to fill a corner OF spot. While it's nice to only spend cash, and keep players, when signing a free agent, you have to look at the other costs. Are you trading for a guy with only a couple years left on a deal who won't kill you financially down the road? Are you trading for a guy from a team that would be willing to take back some garbage like Rusch or Neifi that is already killing you? There's a lot more to look at than just, he's the biggest name corner OF free agent, let's get him. I just look at CLee as a good option then you can use the players you would trade to fill left to fill some other hole and there plenty of holes to fill. Carlos Lee will be a hugely overpaid player who won't produce like he's paid. We've been down this road before. That written, it wouldn't shock me one bit to see the Cubs sign him. They like guys who can hit their pitching; trouble is once they come to the Cubs they aren't hitting against the Cubs any longer.

This is like a freaking recurring nightmare that won't end. They are killing my love for the Cubs. Killing it.

No, it's not. And it's not even close. It's just shortsided stupidity. Rooting or not rooting for the Cubs has no bearing on what they will do now or in the future. While I understand your point about how rooting for or against the Cubs doesn't affect their performance one way or the other, I do not understand why you state that rooting for them to lose right now is "shortsided [sic] stupidity." In other words, if: a) rooting for or against doesn't make a difference and b) rooting for the team to lose is shortsighted and stupid then c) rooting for the team to win would also be shortsighted and stupid I don't think Soul was arguing that his rooting against the team has tangible short-term benefits. I believe he was simply stating that the continued losing will have tangible long-term benefits. Yeah, what's up with that CubinNY? If the Cubs win and win enough to win a WS somebody is doing somthing right. That probably won't happen with this team any time soon, but that is beside the point. To me it is foolish to root for your favorite team to lose regardless of who is managing, playing or GMing. I don't get it, but that is just me

No, it's not. And it's not even close. It's just shortsided stupidity. Rooting or not rooting for the Cubs has no bearing on what they will do now or in the future.