KingKongvs.Godzilla

Do you know whats hilarious? JD Drew would have been a MONSTER bargain if someone had gotten him to sign for 4/52. He's easily the best overall FA when it comes to actual performance. Anyway...busts include Barry Zito, GMJ, Soriano, and Pierre to me. Whoever gets Zito and expects anything more than an innings eater at this point is going to be dissapointed. GMJ and Soriano are working off of career years. Pierre just sucks. What a disgusting offseason. So much money spent on mediocrity. Are GMs really this stupid?

Yea, he was. He was doing a decent job down there. Don't forget, much of the reason the Cubs had the top farm system a few years ago are for our pitchers. Prior was the best pitching prospect (and arguably prospect) in baseball by a nice, long distance. Everyone was in love with Guzman, Jones, Hagerty, Blascko, Ryu, and all their friends. Choi was actually getting ABs somewhere and was producing. Corey was oozing tools. But besides for Choi and the pitchers, the Cubs were always infatuated with athletes. I'll tell you why: 8 years 136 million for a 30+ year old guy with a .280/.325/.510 line is dumb deal. 3 years 13 million for a 31 year old guy who just had a career year in Texas is not a good deal. The Cubs have used their money irresponsibly. They threw money around because they could, they can't handle being able to spend. Even in the draft they can't help but spend poorly. Don't get me wrong, I actually like this years draft potential but that doesn't mean I like what they did. Considering the state of the farm system, the Cubs should have been stocking up on premium talent, because they can afford to. Instead they overdraft an OF. Overpay a football player with a fastball and mediocre college performance. Pay big money to Rundle and his athleticism. Draft more tall pitchers who throw hard but need help with everything else. It's tough to explain but it this way...the draft could look fine in years but they took some serious risk and money into it. Why do that considering the state of the farm system? Do guys like Rundle and friends have any value to us right now? Can we expect quick value from them (performance or in a trade)? Not really. If anything money should be poured into international scouting, especially since we lost Leon Lee in the Pacific Rim a whlie back. He was the guy who signed Choi and Ryu, both very highly thought of at one point. Plus, he's Derrick Lee's dad. As an orginization we have money to spend, which means we can fight for the big guys. We can take risks more than orginizations and take the hit, but when money is spent so poorly theres a problem. Pretty soon we could have a nice old, expensive, mediocre at best team. My problem is not the money we have to spend, its how we've been spending it.

Considering his salary, I'd say so. He's being paid elite money to be a good player. Right now he looks like he might be a .275/.330/.520 line, which is good but not for his paycheck. What middle infielder was signed before DeRosa? Was he similar to DeRosa? I think the Cubs SET the market for mediocre middle infielders. No. My problem is that this orginization has no plan. Scratch that...it's that the plan is "we have money, lets spend it." So far it's upgraded us, but not nearly enough considering what we've paid. Meanwhile this FA market is crazy, but we have to spend the money "because we can" and the orginization can't (and hasn't) trusted the farm system to fill the holes. Anyone notice that unless you're an ELITE talent very early the Cubs rarely pay attention to you in the farm? Elite tools specifically. The orginization is just so pathetic top to bottom, but now we can cover it with money!! GREAT!! Still doesn't mean we'll be anywhere big soon, not with Hendry spending the money like he is. Yes, there have been positive changes. But with Hendry at GM I don't think this orginization is going nowhere. So basically its: 1. I hate Jim Hendry. 2. I hate that they keep him around. 3. Hendry in charge makes this orginization a reactive, not proactive one. 4. Being reactive means we have no plan. 5. That lack of plan has led to overspending on names and ignoring the farm system. 6. The team is now expensive, not too young, and not even all that good.

1. We're not even close a WS team in my mind right now. 2. What steps? They got Wilken, but this years draft is a very big crapshoot, even compared to the average Cub draft. Alot of risks for a farm system that has rarely coached up positional players. 3. I'd rather win next year, but I don't see how overpaying mediocre players helps us do that. 4. Any smartly run orginization with a plan can retool and be good in just a couple years. The fact of the matter is the Cubs had tradeable assets and are too afraid to use them. They don't want to piss off fans because it would cost them moooneeey to piss off fans. Why would they risk that? Or maybe its just the kind of person I am. I think quick fixes usually end up being long term screw ups. Unfortunately I do realize I'm part of a very hungry fanbase. A fanbase that has not seen true victory in almost 98 years, and is desperate for one NOW. I think our window was 3-4 years ago, we've gone downhile ever since. The farm system has deteriorated. The big league team has question marks all over the place and the plan is to fill those large holes with some nice, old, expensive, mediocre FAs. Again, no direction in this franchise. Throw money at players who get people excited because we can and see the team marginally improve.

Who was the last big name FA they signed? Sheffield? Ever since Cashman got full control, that franchise has been heading towards younger and cheaper. They also use their prospects in a way that best helps them. They traded a bunch of athletes for Bobby Abreu. They traded Soriano and Arias, a toolsy SS prospect that was highly regarded at the time for ARod. They graduated Pettite, Williams, Jeter, Rivera, and many others during the 90's. Thats the one part of that orginization that I respect. They are far smarter than given credit for.

I'd rather he take his time with signing Z. Weigh the risks and the rewards, see what outweights what. I worry alot about investing big money and years in a pitcher. Especially on an arm as abused as Z's. Look at his stats, his control and groundball tendencies have gone down, and he's had little nagging injuries that could grow. I think he should wait a little bit and even check out what he could get in a Z trade.

Read some of it last time I went to the bookstore, appearantly he really likes Hill. Really wish I remembered more of what I read.

Unfortunately, the Cubs have shown themselves to be an irresponsible, and poorly run orginization. We need players, we have money. Thats a good mix. Unfortuantely the results are disturbing. Overpay for our role players, and then sign a big name but not great player to a franchsie record contract. Next we might make a run at Schmidt or Zito. Zito isn't even that good. Schmidt has declined in both performance and stuff, and he's been hit with injuries lately. Risks are everywhere, these are just far bigger, more expensive, and older risks. Yea, that's so 5 years ago. They now boast arguably the top pitching prospect in the game, have a top OF prospect on the rise, and have invested in young pitching in the farm system. Look at the teams on the rise. The Brewers have built their whole team from the farm system pretty much. The Marlins brought in a whole lot of good, young talent and were far better than us last year and for years to come. There are examples everywhere, far more than for the spend a ton group.

Don't forget the Marlins with Cabrera, Beckett, Willis, and traded for young guys such as Lee, Burnett, Pavano, Penny, and others while they were still prospects. Or the Angels with Troy Glaus, Lackey, K-Rod, Anserson, and others. And seriously, notice the trend in all the big contenders? All of them are looking to their farm systems now. It's an expensive world. And Tim, the Yankees are a great example. Because of these 2000's, people underrate how good they were at developing top talent in the 90's.

Can people explain to this far younger than average Cub fan why this fan base has gotten so impaitent? Why the idea of building through the draft and the farm system is so crazy? Isn't the far more crazy way of doing things throwing alot of money at overrated or mediocre players and hoping for that "quick fix?" I realize we "have the money." But so do the Yankees and Red Sox. So do alot of teams. The difference between a good team with money and a bad team with money is HOW YOU SPEND IT. The Cubs have not even come close to spending wisely. They throw big money at a good but not franchise changing player, and then overpay for another over 30 player blocking two of our better position play prospect. It's stupid, senseless stuff. Yes, we showed we can spend money and go after a big name. Great. He's a good player. He's a good player making money money than alot of great players. Meanwhile smarter franchises with a much longer track records for success are heading in a completely different direction than we are. The Red Sox, the Yankees, the Braves, the Indians, the Twins, and the A's are franchises that off the top of my head who have went and spent money on the draft and their farm systems. Why? Because idiots like Hendry and Colletti are giving good at best players big money. In today's high salary market in baseball, the best bet for long term success is through your farm system. Instead the Cubs have went in the exact opposite direction, and we probably have one of the lesser farm systems in the league. This offseason has told me alot about Hendry and the Trib. It may be great to them that they have a decent chance to look good when they leave, but that Soriano contract won't look good in a few years. Meanwhile we get to watch the Yankees bring up Phillip Hughes and friends, the Twins play with Santana, Liriano, Mauer, and friends, while we spend spend spend on aging stars. I really hope this spending stops. I realize I'm not an old Cubs fan, I haven't been waiting for a million years like most people. But long term success through the farm system has always worked if done right. It takes money to start up, but young, cheap, good players are a premium these days. Guess how many the Cubs have? A long term business MUST have a direction, MUST have a plan. The Cubs don't. It's why I'm hoping when Hendry is gone someone with a long term goal comes in. Paul DePodesta, Logan White, Grady Fuson, anyone like that. Anyone with half a brain and a plan to be better, younger, and cheaper. Anyway, the only upcoming FA who deserves the money Soriano got (and then some) is Miguel Cabrera in a couple years.

Well, so would I. But the difference in player cost between the two would be huge. In fact, I'm not sure we could put together a package for Baldelli but we likely could get Dukes. Beyond the fact that Baldelli is a long term CFer, I'm willing to bet Dukes outhits him. Considering that Dukes could probably handle CF in the short term, IMO he is far more valuable. In a few years it might be a problem though, Dukes is built like a linebacker. He's probably going to end up a RFer. Still, the guy can hit and has imrpoved every step of the way. I could see him becoming a .290/.390/.500 player with decent enough defense. Thats huge for anyone. That attitude though...I don't know. Most guys like Dukes and Bradley are actually pretty nice people. I've heard tons of stories of Dukes and Bradley (Dukes is compared to Bradley alot) being some of the nicest and most intelligent people. It's when you do something to mess with that person that they become the assholes that people hear about.

:D Me, too. The Grady Little signing column was a classic. I'll go out on a limb here and say there will be a reference to a dirty uniform in said article. :lol: Cannot agree more. Get the chance to read about how the man "affectionately" called Slappy utilizes his blazing speed and great heart to will his team to victory. How he was a "big part" of the 2003 Marlins, setting the table that whole season with his eyes ablaze, his legs of controlled fury, and blah blah blah. It's going to be hilarious.

Dukes or Upton could actually be available now. Upton is positionless and both he and the orginization seem to be losing paitence with one another. Personally, the guy should be a SS right now. The errors could be annoying, but he's a sick athlete and he's only 22. Both of these guys are studs, and I would love to have either one.

Well, Bonds at his best is the most obvious. But then again, the Giants didn't make it until Schmidt had his best season. Still not a fan of this deal. Can someone please help convince that this can be decent somehow? I just don't see it.

Love the word. And I love the word "colloquialism" . . . 'course it doesn't offend anyone . . . I'm offended. Fine, I consider the move a simple minded one.

Love the word.

No doubt Soriano is an upgrade over Pierre. My problem is we payed GREAT money to a GOOD player. The [expletive] logic people like to use is that the Cubs can afford to do that. So what? It's still a TERRIBLE way to spend your money. If you had 100 dollars to spend would you overpay for a lesser product simply because its an upgrade over what you have? What you if you could find a better product for cheaper? Thats what Soriano is to me. We overpaid "because we can," and got ourselves a big name who does really the following things well: A. Hits for alot of power. Thats it. He sucks at stealing bases, he K's a ton, plays crappy D, and he's allergic to walking. It's a ridiculously [expletive] deal. I'm not going to sit here praising the fact that the Cubs paid a big name big money. He's not a great player, and he gets paid like one. Wow, cool we showed we can pay money to guys. We flexed our financial muscles. SO WHAT? They key to having that money is spending it wisely. We just signed a big risk, big reward player to a franchise record deal. How [expletive] is that? I don't care that the Cubs showed they can spend money. I always knew they could. Its HOW THEY SPEND THAT MONEY thats the key. Put it this way, at the highest Drew was rumored for 4/52. He plays better defense, gets on base, also has power, can run the bases, and is left handed. Soriano gets EIGHT YEARS and 136 million for one really good season? At age 30? Yes, praise the Cubs for spending money. But anyone can throw a [expletive] of money at a good player and get him. That doesn't make a great or even good move. Sure, we MIGHT get close to the .277/.351/.560 line, but I'm willing to bet it ends up around .280/.330/.550. Thats good, but 17 million dollars great? Not really. The fact is this money could have been thrown at Beltran 2 years ago. Or we could have saved a boatload and gotten a more consistently productive player in Drew. But OMG WE MADE A SPLASH!! For less money, and less years this move is OK. I'd be pretty meh on it, even a little bit excited. But the contract is [expletive] at best, and Soriano is an OK player only because of his power and athleticism, not great. Reading the post it seems random. Sorry for that. I just absolutely hate this move.

Bump. This is a topic I'd really like to hear more about, since I've heard mention of Z being the only pitcher we can count on next year. I personally am still a worrier.

Dumbest signing ever. A high K, low OBP, bad defensive player. YES!! But he's got power!! And he's FAST!! He's also 32, has exactly one very good season, and appearantly whiny as hell. And EIGHT YEARS? I can't believe I just found out about this, I hadn't been able to listen to the radio or watch TV all day. This is disgusting news to me though. Nice job overpaying a player who is probably not even close to worth his contract. Nice job Hendry. Meanwhile the high OBP, good defense, power hitting lefty who could also handle center and less than half of Soriano's price can sit out there. GREAT!

He does seem to be the concensus. Who would offer really offer Gonzalez that kind of contract?

Willis is so overrated. Hope Hendry lets some other team overpay for him.

You know I really hate that mentality. The Cubs are a business. Business requires efficency, and just because we aren't a small market team doesn't mean we can throw money at meh players and say "hm, its only 13 million." We have the money, spend it WISELY. Derosa wasn't a terrible signing, but the years + salary is not something to be happy with. I don't care how much money we have to spend, that just means its a bit easier to entice the big guys with big money. We can pay the best what they want, not a boatload of crap a boatload of money.

From what I remember Cotts threw 88-89 consistently touching 91. His curveball/slider was considered an out pitch in the minors, and he had/has a very good changeup. I haven't really seen him since '05 though, and his stuff was sick that year. If he can regain his '05 form, maybe trying him in the rotation isn't a bad idea. And sorry I called Rusch and Hendry fatass. Especially Rusch, somehow I forgot what the guy just went through...

I've always liked Cotts...wonder if endry will give Fatass a chance to start again? Aardsma lost his breaking ball at some point in his MiLB career, and he's never had great control. I like this move by Fatass actually. Cotts is actually the same age (or younger?) than Rich Hill. He's got similar stuff, and he was once a starter. Think the Cubs would try him again there? He never had great control as a starter, but he's a young strikeout lefty with good stuff....which probably means he's best suited for the pen where he was. Anyways...Jones + Eyre for Westbrook please...

Why? It's not like either will be worth their contracts. The Cubs need pitching, and will have to overpay to get it. Still, Zito and Schmidt want BIG contracts and both have major flaws, and really...Zito isn't even all that good.