TruffleShuffle

OK Rip Van Winkle ;) DAMN YOU FOR MAKING THAT WITTY REPARTEE BEFORE ME

You might end up sleeping longer than Rip van Winkle.

I love how Julio Franco turns into Ted Williams when he plays the Cubs.

Hey, look at the bright side - at least the Cubs got rained out... otherwise, it would've been worse!

What's amazing is that (so far) 32 out of 32 people on an internet message board know that OBP is more important than speed when it comes to a leadoff man, yet 0 out of 1 current Cub managers are aware of this.

Yeah that would be awful, we'd have one less starting pitcher with an ERA over 5.00. I'm pretty sure that if Jeff Suppan had a $9M option that was about to vest for next year, you'd be pretty annoyed about it too.

Shouldn't this be in polls, by the way?

I said 82-80 before the year and then went down to 76-86 after the Nomar injury. The problems I foresaw before the season were: -mediocre, inexperienced bullpen -lack of patience at the plate from the C, SS, 3B (as great a hitter as ARam is, he doesn't walk much at all for a middle of the order hitter), LF, CF and to some extent RF -a good number of players who are good shots to get injured based on their injury histories So far, the bullpen has been mediocre as expected, the team's OBP is terrible, and the frequently injured guys have once again gotten injured. So no, I'm not surprised at this team's struggles at all.

Agreed. To intentionally sit a player so an option doesn't vest is completely unethical. If the Cubs did this then no respectible free agent would consider them, they would be subject to grievances, and they would lose the support of this fan. OK, here are a couple of other reasons it would be wise to sit him: (a) We already have too many starting pitchers - Prior, Wood, Zambrano, Williams, Rusch, Mitre, Hill... the first three are clearly better than Maddux, and it can be argued that two of the last four are at least as good if not better than Maddux now. (b) Lots of teams play their young guys when they're out of the playoff race to determine which young guys will be able to contribute to the team in subsequent years. You're not pulling Prior, Wood or Z from the rotation. You shouldn't pull Williams, because he's one of the guys you want to evaluate for next year. Rusch doesn't have to start, but what about Mitre? How are we going to know if he might find enough consistency to be a good starting pitcher in the majors if he keeps pitching out of the bullpen? Not only does keeping Maddux in the rotation hurt the Cubs from a financial standpoint next year, but it also hurts in terms of player evaluation. Also, the argument that no free agent would consider the Cubs if they did this is completely absurd. 95 percent of MLB players have proven time and time again that they will go where the money is. If the Cubs have money and give a player his best offer, chances are very good he'll be a Cub - no matter what happens to Greg Maddux.

A lot of us are hoping he's part of the dismantling before the rebuilding. As for the division, it's over. I'm not even paying attention to what the Cards are doing. They could call up Memphis - all of it - and still win the division.

Honestly, I would just let the season go down the toilet at this point. There are way too many problems with this club that a move or two isn't going to turn this team into a World Series contender. Don't bother mortgaging a part of the future for what's probably a hopeless year. Sell off some guys in the last year of their contracts that other teams might find useful, and do a better job in the offseason of putting a good team on the field for 2006.

This team is even worse than I thought. Patterson is worse than expected, nobody gets on base, Maddux might not even be average any more, the bullpen is a train wreck... my prediction of 76-86 might end up being too optimistic.

Been bumping this thread a lot lately. The Cubs are doing all they can to fall out of the wild card hunt, and Maddux is doing his part to prove that he's not worth anywhere close to $9M next year. In fact, I foresee him being slightly below average by next season. I still say the Cubs should not damage their chances of winning next year to win a couple more meaningless games this year. Maddux's salary next year is probably the worst financial problem the Cubs will have in 2006.

ERA over 5. How many people still think he's worth anywhere close to the $9M we'll end up paying him next year?

I don't remember my vow, but whatever it was I'm not worried. I'd also love for the Cards to sign Morris for $32M over 4 years, and I'd be happy about it for a different reason than Cardinal fans would be.

Anybody who votes "speed" should be banned. That way we'll keep Dusty Baker off our message board.

Jamey Wright's first post on this board will be "My Restraining Order Against UK"

Not that you were attacking me, but not all of us have an anti-Cardinals bias. I said Edmonds deserves to be on the time, just not quite as a starter. As for ARam versus Ensberg, I give you this: Ensberg home: .320/.429/.639/1.068 Ensberg away: .260/.349/.547/.895 ARam home: .297/.350/.534/.884 ARam away: .304/.373/.587/.960 Ensberg has the better stats without taking park effects into account. But when you factor in Ensberg putting up monster stats at Dirty Energy Company Ballpark, I'd say ARam is having a slightly better year. It wouldn't be a stretch to argue that David Wright would be almost as good as each of those guys if he didn't play half his games in Shea: Home: .286/.360/.449/.809 Road: .297/.408/.547/.955

I voted for him once, not because I like him or the Astros, but because it's a joke he wasn't named to the team. IMO he has been the third best starter in the NL this season.

He'll have to hit .260-.280 in the second half of the year to end up with that average at the end of the season... you think he's going to fall off that badly after the All-Star break???

Piazza starting makes me sick. My mom just had hip replacement and could steal 2nd base on Piazza. Why is that so funny? Any Cubs fan who is an actual baseball fan would not view it as a laughing matter. P.S. A ladder is something you climb on. Moron. Quoting before the b& Am I in before the ban?

We seem to see those two words together a lot more in minor league discussions than we do in the Game Threads section of the board

Oh yeah, can someone explain this to me? How did Eckstein garner 600,000 votes more than Izturis in the last two days?!?!? I would accuse Cardinal fans of cheating, but if that were the case Pujols should have held off Lee also. So, I think Eckstein's extended family found a hole in the system.

none of the cardinals starters should be there. the outfield should be abreu in center and Carlos and Miguel on the corners. Felipe Lopez should be at SS. Aram or Morgan Ensberg should be at 3B. What a farce. Are you referring to Carlos Beltran? He has been pretty average this year. If you're keeping guys at their positions, the OF should be Cabrera, Andruw Jones and Abreu; if you're playing guys out of position then put Jason Bay or Abreu in CF. I don't have as much of an issue with Edmonds starting because he has at least been good this year and hasn't been much worse than Andruw Jones. Rolen is not even close to ARam, David Wright or Ensberg (the latter two got left off) and Eckstein is way, way behind Felipe Lopez. Even Bill Hall deserved to make it ahead of Eckstein. Cesar Izturis doesn't belong on the team, either.

Well, at least the guys who deserved to start at SS and 3B for the NL made the team.