Billy Corgan on the Cubs

[katway]

Interesting opinions... http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/askthewriter/cs-050920cubscorgan,1,3024108.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

 

I agree with his take on Dusty and the Cubs...

 

this team has no fire!!! sammy was not the problem, steve stone was not the problem, steve bartman was not the problem ... I lay a lot of blame at the feet of dusty baker for not being more strict about fundamentals, which I think would give the team a stronger day-to-day identity ... what brand of baseball do the cubs play, one might ask? umm, hit a home run (cross your fingers, somebody might be on base), and overpower your opponent with starting pitching ... just don't let 'em get to that middle relief, or god forbid somebody can't hit us a home run ... we don't know how to win playing any other way, nor does there seem to be any discipline -- or ramifications if somebody can't adjust ... blaming corey patterson makes him just another convenient scapegoat in a long line of them, but the team overall does not play with a consistent vision ... look no further than their record against the cardinals this year ... against the division winner (and hated rival), they played winning baseball all year, because they got up for those games ... why does it take a strong opponent for the team to play strong? nobody in the clubhouse driving the team to be its best every day ... and I don't want to hear 'it's a long season, man' ... tell it to a guy digging a ditch out on I-90 ...

 

=D>

[waffle]

Agreed! That has been my major criticism of this team and of Dusty! This team doesn't do anything well. It has no identity. They have no FIRE. They are not aggressive in any aspect of their game. Because of that they are not that interesting a team to watch or follow.

 

No hustle. No fundy baseball. No fire (big z excluded). No confidence. About the only thing they get fired up about is blaming (fans, press, etc.). Nobody is AFRAID to play this team.

[TrueBlueCubFan]

Nobody is AFRAID to play this team.

Except the Cardinals!

[rocket]

billy should stick to writing crap music

[Bergy92]

I think that is one reason why guys like Murton & Hairston Jr. have been at least fun to watch - they have a bit of hustle. Remember those couple diving catches by Hairston a few weeks ago and then stands up and pumps the fist - that is what we need. And Murton just continues to do his job, get on base (and by the way, look out, here comes the power) & hustle.

 

I agree with what was posted...we need some fire and energy.

[Wheelimus]

billy should stick to writing crap music

 

I don't quite get that reaction. The guy is a famous Cubs fan, and most of what he said in his answers were good stuff. Only thing that might piss people off here was the comments on Sox haters :lol:

 

Anyway, I have to strongly disagree with the "crap music" bit, Mellon Collie & the Infinite Sadness is a classic. Siamese Dream is excellent. And I've thought since it came out that Machina/The Machines of God was highly underrated.

[Derwood]

He's famous enough to get what the rest of us "common" Cubs fans have been saying into print. Good enough for me.

[JC]

Interesting opinions... http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/askthewriter/cs-050920cubscorgan,1,3024108.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

 

I agree with his take on Dusty and the Cubs...

 

this team has no fire!!! sammy was not the problem, steve stone was not the problem, steve bartman was not the problem ... I lay a lot of blame at the feet of dusty baker for not being more strict about fundamentals, which I think would give the team a stronger day-to-day identity ... what brand of baseball do the cubs play, one might ask? umm, hit a home run (cross your fingers, somebody might be on base), and overpower your opponent with starting pitching ... just don't let 'em get to that middle relief, or god forbid somebody can't hit us a home run ... we don't know how to win playing any other way, nor does there seem to be any discipline -- or ramifications if somebody can't adjust ... blaming corey patterson makes him just another convenient scapegoat in a long line of them, but the team overall does not play with a consistent vision ... look no further than their record against the cardinals this year ... against the division winner (and hated rival), they played winning baseball all year, because they got up for those games ... why does it take a strong opponent for the team to play strong? nobody in the clubhouse driving the team to be its best every day ... and I don't want to hear 'it's a long season, man' ... tell it to a guy digging a ditch out on I-90 ...

 

=D>

 

Dare I say -- smashing...

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I hate it when people say the offense is just "waiting for a home run". Hate hate hate it. Otherwise that was well said.

[dalgreen]

Bravo to Corgan -- although he merely stated what we've been saying on here all year. One thing I disagree with is his opinion on fundamentals. I won't entirely blame the Cub coaching staff for this until I read or hear of them not spending the appropriate amount of time addressing this. I choose to blame the personnel. Think about it, look at the roster. There aren't many guys on our roster who have a reputation for being fundamentally sound, whether with the Cubs or before joining the Cubs. I hope Hendry takes a look at this when acquiring guys in the off-season.

[Magnetic Curses]

i hate when people talk about "fundamentals". it always seems to me that they're really talking about bunting people over with their #2 hitter, which is not fundamental at all.

 

one half-sentence on discipline, the whole damn thing should be about a lack of discipline. discipline is the only fundamental that i care about.

[dalgreen]

i hate when people talk about "fundamentals". it always seems to me that they're really talking about bunting people over with their #2 hitter, which is not fundamental at all.

 

one half-sentence on discipline, the whole damn thing should be about a lack of discipline. discipline is the only fundamental that i care about.

 

Why do you automatically equate fundamentals to bunting? I think of executing a run down properly, shifting your weight in blocking pitches in the dirt, turning a routine double play, hitting the cutoff man........

[TheDude]

i hate when people talk about "fundamentals". it always seems to me that they're really talking about bunting people over with their #2 hitter, which is not fundamental at all.

 

one half-sentence on discipline, the whole damn thing should be about a lack of discipline. discipline is the only fundamental that i care about.

Not true. When a lot of people talk about "fundamentals", they refer to defense and play in the field, baserunning, hitting the cutoff man, as well as bunting, moving over a runner third, or generating a sac fly.

[bobbyd20]

to me, fundamentals also includes showing some discipline at the plate...ie, working the count, not swinging at the first pitch right after the pitcher makes the second out of an inning, letting that first pitch go by if it's not the pitch and location you are looking for, having an idea of the strike zone, etc.

 

The Cubs approach at the plate is one of the frustrating fundamental errors I see in this ballclub...not the only fundamental flaw by any means, just personally the most frustrating

[MembersOnlyJacket]

i hate when people talk about "fundamentals". it always seems to me that they're really talking about bunting people over with their #2 hitter, which is not fundamental at all.

 

one half-sentence on discipline, the whole damn thing should be about a lack of discipline. discipline is the only fundamental that i care about.

Not true. When a lot of people talk about "fundamentals", they refer to defense and play in the field, baserunning, hitting the cutoff man, as well as bunting, moving over a runner third, or generating a sac fly.

 

they're also referring to guys standing on third base for 5 seconds when a ball is hit to deep short, then running home and getting gunned out by a weak-armed SS. he will remain nameless.

[minnesotacubsfan]

tell it to a guy digging a ditch out on I-90

 

 

I love it....

[JC]

i hate when people talk about "fundamentals". it always seems to me that they're really talking about bunting people over with their #2 hitter, which is not fundamental at all.

 

one half-sentence on discipline, the whole damn thing should be about a lack of discipline. discipline is the only fundamental that i care about.

 

Why do you automatically equate fundamentals to bunting? I think of executing a run down properly, shifting your weight in blocking pitches in the dirt, turning a routine double play, hitting the cutoff man........

 

I agree, Dal. My view of fundamentals is much broader.

 

However, I differ from you with regard to your position that you need to hear that the coaching staff is being somehow negligent until you will lay blame at their feet.

 

While the individual player certainly deserves his share of responsibility, a pattern of fundamental breakdowns should cause increased scrutiny on the coaching staff. The instances you referenced above are all things that can be addressed throughout the year.

 

Generally speaking, I don't think players that continue to struggle make it in the majors for extended periods. We aren't talking about young guys, here. Many of the criticisms of the Cubs' fundamental failures are from guys who have been around (Rusch, Remlinger, Walker, Barrett, Burnitz, Patterson, Macias, etc.) Why have their fundamental lapses been so prevelant under this staff?

 

Further, what in the heck is management doing bringing in veteran players whom they know have fundamental deficiencies, if indeed the problems were so evident in the first place? There really is no way around the fact that managment and/or the coaching staff bears some burden of blame for the broad display poor fundamentals, even in the absence of someone confessing that the staff ignored dealing with the lapses.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Fundamentals to me seem like a convenient scapegoat when a team isn't woefully bad at a certain spot to blame. I don't think many teams worse than the Cubs are lamenting poor fundamentals, they're ranting about a lack of offense, or pitching, or bullpen. Do the Cubs really make more "fundamental" mistakes than other teams? I'm not sure they do.

[Magnetic Curses]

i hate when people talk about "fundamentals". it always seems to me that they're really talking about bunting people over with their #2 hitter, which is not fundamental at all.

 

one half-sentence on discipline, the whole damn thing should be about a lack of discipline. discipline is the only fundamental that i care about.

 

Why do you automatically equate fundamentals to bunting? I think of executing a run down properly, shifting your weight in blocking pitches in the dirt, turning a routine double play, hitting the cutoff man........

 

i think you're right. it's weird, but it's what i think of when people start talking about fundamentals. i'm not sure why it happens.

[goonys evil twin]

i hate when people talk about "fundamentals". it always seems to me that they're really talking about bunting people over with their #2 hitter, which is not fundamental at all.

 

one half-sentence on discipline, the whole damn thing should be about a lack of discipline. discipline is the only fundamental that i care about.

 

Why do you automatically equate fundamentals to bunting? I think of executing a run down properly, shifting your weight in blocking pitches in the dirt, turning a routine double play, hitting the cutoff man........

 

I agree, Dal. My view of fundamentals is much broader.

 

 

My definition is much broader, but the definition used by many is pretty much what sulley was talking about. The two things I hear most when talking about fundamentals is clutch hitting and sac bunts. Clutch hitting is not a fundamental. Clutch hitting is more or less chance. And sac bunts are not a good thing. But those are, by far, the two biggest laments by fans and the media when talking about a lack of fundamentals. After every Mets or Yankees loss, I read and hear the media and fans complain about specific failures in "clutch" situations and times when people wanted to see a sac bunt, as if that would have guaranteed a run being scored and a different outcome to the game. Baseball is a game of failure. Most of the time you will fail to get the job done offensively. You will make an out more often than not, you will not drive in a run more often than not. Nitpicking specific failures is pointless. What matters is the collective production of your entire team over the 162 game season.

 

I don't know why people want to make it seem so complicated, but the simple fact is this team struggles because the pitching staff walks too many people and the hitters don't take enough walks. Those are the two biggest problems, they'be been the two biggest problems for a while, and they will remain the two biggest problems until they are addressed and solved. And they can be fixed.

[dalgreen]

i hate when people talk about "fundamentals". it always seems to me that they're really talking about bunting people over with their #2 hitter, which is not fundamental at all.

 

one half-sentence on discipline, the whole damn thing should be about a lack of discipline. discipline is the only fundamental that i care about.

 

Why do you automatically equate fundamentals to bunting? I think of executing a run down properly, shifting your weight in blocking pitches in the dirt, turning a routine double play, hitting the cutoff man........

 

I agree, Dal. My view of fundamentals is much broader.

 

However, I differ from you with regard to your position that you need to hear that the coaching staff is being somehow negligent until you will lay blame at their feet.

 

While the individual player certainly deserves his share of responsibility, a pattern of fundamental breakdowns should cause increased scrutiny on the coaching staff. The instances you referenced above are all things that can be addressed throughout the year.

 

Generally speaking, I don't think players that continue to struggle make it in the majors for extended periods. We aren't talking about young guys, here. Many of the criticisms of the Cubs' fundamental failures are from guys who have been around (Rusch, Remlinger, Walker, Barrett, Burnitz, Patterson, Macias, etc.) Why have their fundamental lapses been so prevelant under this staff?

 

Further, what in the heck is management doing bringing in veteran players whom they know have fundamental deficiencies, if indeed the problems were so evident in the first place? There really is no way around the fact that managment and/or the coaching staff bears some burden of blame for the broad display poor fundamentals, even in the absence of someone confessing that the staff ignored dealing with the lapses.

 

I agree, JC. That's why I said I won't entirely blame the coaching staff -- they do deserve blame, but I don't think they bear 100% of the blame. I still believe if you look at our roster, how many of the guys on it would you use the term "fundamentally sound" and their name in the same sentence? As you know, I've said I don't think we have a "baseball smart" team, anyway. Add that to a not so smart coaching staff and we see the results.

[dalgreen]

Fundamentals to me seem like a convenient scapegoat when a team isn't woefully bad at a certain spot to blame. I don't think many teams worse than the Cubs are lamenting poor fundamentals, they're ranting about a lack of offense, or pitching, or bullpen. Do the Cubs really make more "fundamental" mistakes than other teams? I'm not sure they do.

 

I don't think anyone is saying the only reason the Cubs are a bad team is because of fundamentals. It's just one of several reasons and they are a bad fundamental team.

[JC]

 

I agree, JC. That's why I said I won't entirely blame the coaching staff -- they do deserve blame, but I don't think they bear 100% of the blame. I still believe if you look at our roster, how many of the guys on it would you use the term "fundamentally sound" and their name in the same sentence? As you know, I've said I don't think we have a "baseball smart" team, anyway. Add that to a not so smart coaching staff and we see the results.

 

Gotcha.

 

One thing I am loathe to mention, but will anyway.

 

Derrek's defense doesn't seem to have been up to par this year. Maybe its just me, but the errors I've seen from him have been of the sort I haven't seen in the past. I hope its just perception.

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

I agree, JC. That's why I said I won't entirely blame the coaching staff -- they do deserve blame, but I don't think they bear 100% of the blame. I still believe if you look at our roster, how many of the guys on it would you use the term "fundamentally sound" and their name in the same sentence? As you know, I've said I don't think we have a "baseball smart" team, anyway. Add that to a not so smart coaching staff and we see the results.

 

Gotcha.

 

One thing I am loathe to mention, but will anyway.

 

Derrek's defense doesn't seem to have been up to par this year. Maybe its just me, but the errors I've seen from him have been of the sort I haven't seen in the past. I hope its just perception.

 

 

I have felt this way too JC, dont know what it is...

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Fundamentals to me seem like a convenient scapegoat when a team isn't woefully bad at a certain spot to blame. I don't think many teams worse than the Cubs are lamenting poor fundamentals, they're ranting about a lack of offense, or pitching, or bullpen. Do the Cubs really make more "fundamental" mistakes than other teams? I'm not sure they do.

 

I don't think anyone is saying the only reason the Cubs are a bad team is because of fundamentals. It's just one of several reasons and they are a bad fundamental team.

 

Are they a bad fundamental team? If Prior and Wood were healthy and effective, putting us in the WC lead, would anyone be talking about how we are a bad fundamental team? It seems like we remember the fundamental screwups more because by nature, fundamentals should be taken for granted almost in their execution. Therefore, when the team as a whole falls short, those are the times that come to mind, and the team is labelled bad fundamentally. Like I said in my previous post, I'm not so sure that the Cubs are bad fundamentally compared to the league.