One Billionth Dusty Poll

[JC]

How do you feel now?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think I've made my feelings on this matter crystal clear.

[goonys evil twin]

I find it somewhat hilarious that my vote gave Dusty his highest rating.

 

That's coming from one of the very few people who was adamantly opposed to his hiring long before he was officially a Cub. Perhaps that is because things have worked out pretty much as I feared: many of the Cubs pitchers have been hurt, at least in part due to overuse, kids have rotted on the bench, bad proven veterans have had playing time handed to them on a silver platter despite not earning it, etc. etc. etc.

 

I never thought he was anything close to an elite manager, despite all the accolades he received upon being hired. I think, given the right team, he can be fine, but he won't win you any games. Actually, he might be a good manager for the US team in that World Cup. For some reason, players think he's great and will respect him (unless all those reports are just blowhard BS, which I kind of think is the case), and he'll have nothing but elite veteran players to work with.

[rawaction]

What about Dusty is a medicore manager on the wrong team? I think he could do well in the right situation (03 wasn't bad, 02 with Giants was pretty good). I truly think players like to play for him, especially bench players and players who are gonna be in the lineup 155 times/season (Maddux, Lee, Burnitz, Alou, etc). His in-game decisions aren't any worse than any other manager's. His lack of understand how to use a pitching staff and his lack of putting his team in the best place to succeed are his biggest flaws. Those are 2 big flaws that this team can't afford though.

[goonys evil twin]

His in-game decisions aren't any worse than any other manager's.

 

Oh I couldn't disagree more.

 

It was kind of fun to watch Dusty get outmanaged back when he was in San Fran. Chris Russo, aka Mad Dog on the Mike and the Mad Dog Show, is a big Giants fans who would go insane watching the stuff Dusty did.

 

I've never seen a manager so unable to prepare 2-3 at bats in advance. He's literally caught off guard almost everytime a matchup doesn't result in the desired result. He doesn't get guys warm in advance of a starter falling apart, he waits for the wheels to start falling off before he does anything. I would say he is easily in the bottom half in terms of strategy.

 

 

just wanted to add

 

He's always calling for pitchouts, so much so that of course occasionally they'll catch a guy, but more often than not, the runner isn't going, and all he does is put a pitching staff with control and pitch count issues deeper into holes. He hit and runs with batters who have severe contact issues and slow runners.

 

I could go on and on. He's truly awful in this regard. The only thing I give him credit for is his reported ability to get guys to like playing for him, although 2004 and 2005 really muddies the water on that supposedly clear-cut Dusty strength.

[JC]

I think the idea of a manager being good or bad based on the team he is managing doesn't hold water.

 

If the argument is that Dusty is not a bad manager with a more veteran team, one that requires less oversight and allows for more consistent line-ups and pitching substitutions, then I'd counter that a monkey could do the same thing.

 

Being an effective manager means, to me, that the person is adaptable. That adaptability shouldn't be a stretch as it ought to be based on the fact that you are playing the best players to win and putting the club in the best position to succeed. Those goals should be constants, regardless of the make-up of the team.

 

When you argue that Dusty just doesn't have the right team, it seems like you are bending over backwards to find positives for him. Not everyone is placed in the ideal situation for their employment. As such, you are measured by what you do with what you have.

 

Admittedly, I didn't follow the 2002 Giants that closely (being a Cub fan). I did watch the playoffs with particular interest because of the rampant speculation that Baker would be the next Cub manager. Based on what I saw, if he managed the entire season like he did the post season, I would still argue that Baker was a detriment to that team. Thus, the idea that he flourished due to a more veteran team doesn't resonate with me.

 

I am harsher on Baker than most. I recognize that. I don't like his decision making, excuse making, feeble explanations, self promotion, oversensitivity, pouting, etc. However, I have tried to be open minded about him as a manager. Alas, I always come to the same conclusions: that his 2002 and 2003 teams succeeded in spite of Dusty, not because of him.

[AC036198]

Dusty is a good manager. If you give him the right pieces, look what he'll do. He took us 5 outs from the World Series in 2003, he took us down to the last weekend last year, and if he had had Mercker, The Farns, and Clement, we would've had a solid rotation, and some more stable arms in the pen.

[rawaction]

His in-game decisions aren't any worse than any other manager's.

 

Oh I couldn't disagree more.

 

It was kind of fun to watch Dusty get outmanaged back when he was in San Fran. Chris Russo, aka Mad Dog on the Mike and the Mad Dog Show, is a big Giants fans who would go insane watching the stuff Dusty did.

 

I've never seen a manager so unable to prepare 2-3 at bats in advance. He's literally caught off guard almost everytime a matchup doesn't result in the desired result. He doesn't get guys warm in advance of a starter falling apart, he waits for the wheels to start falling off before he does anything. I would say he is easily in the bottom half in terms of strategy.

 

 

just wanted to add

 

He's always calling for pitchouts, so much so that of course occasionally they'll catch a guy, but more often than not, the runner isn't going, and all he does is put a pitching staff with control and pitch count issues deeper into holes. He hit and runs with batters who have severe contact issues and slow runners.

 

I could go on and on. He's truly awful in this regard. The only thing I give him credit for is his reported ability to get guys to like playing for him, although 2004 and 2005 really muddies the water on that supposedly clear-cut Dusty strength.

 

Well, I guess I just think most managers make shaky in-game decisions. A couple weeks ago, Larussa sat on Ray King (good thing it wasn't the other way around) instead of bringing him in to face Patterson, who had no shot against him. Instead, I believe, Corey hit a 2-run double off a RHP. I think most managers either go with gut feelings too much or go by the book too much. I have been left scratching my head on numerous occassions with managerial moves, and not just from the Cubs.

[biittner77]

Dusty Baker does a lot of unconventional things. I think it was Neyer who said he was "The crack smokingest manager in the big leagues".

 

There have been times when these crazy lineups etc. have worked. Batting Neifi 2nd during his hot streak is an example. I think we are more aware when these things go wrong and rarely credit him for occasionally being right.

 

I'm convinced that the player's do like to play for him based on the interviews I've heard. Baseball players are typically not talented enough to fake it when it comes to these things. Besides, why shouldn't they like playing for him? He stands by them no matter what. He doesn't play the kids but they're too happy to be there to take that personally.

[AR-Baseball-Fan]

If there is a way to mis use his personnel, Dusty will find it. Examples include Reminger pitching to left hand batters, Walker not batting against left handers and low, low, low OBP batters at the top of the line up. Does Dusty ever, ever, ever look up and use statistics to any advantage. Any manager's responsibility is to put his players in the spots to where they will have the best chance of success. Often, when the Cubs did win, it seemed to be in spite of the manager rather than due to the correct moves.

[Careless]

I was hoping for a "is [guano] insane" choice

Edit: oh, I voted for mediocre. that really reflects my disdain for managing in MLB in general more than respect for dusty's abilities