Nomar situation after the year..

[nilodnayr]

I'm surprised to hear you say that Hoops. Walker has been very good this year, better than Soriano by some metrics. Kent has been better, but is he 5 million dollars plus the cost to acquire him better than Walker?

 

From a strict OPS standpoint, Walker is currently ranked 10th among 2B in the majors. 4 of the 9 guys ahead of him (Vidro, Cantu, Biggio, Polanco) are within a few percentage poins of Walker, so you can easily make the argument that Walker is 6th, which is pretty good. But, the 5 ahead of him (Giles, Soriano, Utley, Kent, Roberts) are significantly better than him, so I would look to see how to acquire one of them, although I doubt Atlanta, Philly or Baltimore would trade theirs. From the Cubs standpoint, I don't look at it so much as $2.5M vs. $7.5M. I cling to the belief that if Jeff Kent (batting 4th) or Alfonso Soriano (batting 6th) were in this line-up, we'd be a lot closer to the WC lead, if not leading it.

 

I too was quite surprised by your opinion hoops. Soriano has shown that hes one of the better hitting second basemen, but his park adjusted numbers (as CPatt alluded to) show little to no difference between him and Walker. Walker has an advantage in OBP, Soriano in slugging. Walkers' tendency to get on base is a big need for this team, not to mention the difference in Ks. IMO only if their salaries were the same would I consider Soriano an improvement over Walker. For the money, Walker + Lawton>>>>>Soriano.

[Geech]

Alfonso Soriano (batting 6th) were in this line-up, we'd be a lot closer to the WC lead, if not leading it.

 

I sincerely doubt that the difference between Soriano and Walker is worth 6.5 games.

Edited August 16, 2005 by Geech

[nilodnayr]

Alfonso Soriano (batting 6th) were in this line-up, we'd be a lot closer to the WC lead, if not leading it.

 

I sincerely doubt that the difference Soriano and Walker is worth 6.5 games.

 

the way soriano is hitting on the road this year, it might be worth 6.5 games the wrong way :D

[Mark_R]

Alfonso Soriano (batting 6th) were in this line-up, we'd be a lot closer to the WC lead, if not leading it.

 

I sincerely doubt that the difference between Soriano and Walker is worth 6.5 games.

 

How about six weeks of Jerry Hairston and Jose Macias (and LOTS of Neifi) while Walker was hurt?

[CubfaninCA]

Alfonso Soriano (batting 6th) were in this line-up, we'd be a lot closer to the WC lead, if not leading it.

 

I sincerely doubt that the difference between Soriano and Walker is worth 6.5 games.

 

How about six weeks of Jerry Hairston and Jose Macias (and LOTS of Neifi) while Walker was hurt?

 

Good point. Thank you. If Nomar's back, I'd rather go for a defensive 2b like Orlando Hudson. Walker's a good hitter, but he doesn't have much range and his durability isn't that great.

[nilodnayr]

Alfonso Soriano (batting 6th) were in this line-up, we'd be a lot closer to the WC lead, if not leading it.

 

I sincerely doubt that the difference between Soriano and Walker is worth 6.5 games.

 

How about six weeks of Jerry Hairston and Jose Macias (and LOTS of Neifi) while Walker was hurt?

 

Well in those 29 games from April 11th to May 14th we went 13 and 16. I think you are confused because LOTS of Neifi was because Nomar was hurt, not Walker. So we would have had to have gone 20 and 9, a record of which the cubs have not even come close to during any 29 game stretch this year. Your argument might hold some merit if we actually thought Walker was going to get hurt next year (as far as I know none of us have a time machine), but obviously we dont.

[nilodnayr]

 

and his durability isn't that great.

 

And on what basis do you make this claim?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Alfonso Soriano (batting 6th) were in this line-up, we'd be a lot closer to the WC lead, if not leading it.

 

I sincerely doubt that the difference between Soriano and Walker is worth 6.5 games.

 

How about six weeks of Jerry Hairston and Jose Macias (and LOTS of Neifi) while Walker was hurt?

 

Good point. Thank you. If Nomar's back, I'd rather go for a defensive 2b like Orlando Hudson. Walker's a good hitter, but he doesn't have much range and his durability isn't that great.

 

Walker will never win a gold glove, but his defense has been right about average(97 rate, 2 runs below average) to go with his bat that is well above average. Add in the fact he's very cheap for next season and I'll definitely take him.

 

Why do you say that Walker's durability isn't that great? This year marked his first year on the disabled list in memory. He hasn't been on the DL from 2001 on, and he played 143 games exactly the 3 years prior to that. Seems to me that he's been quite durable over his career.

[CubfaninCA]

 

and his durability isn't that great.

 

And on what basis do you make this claim?

 

He's been hurt the past two season, and he'll be 33 next yr. I'd rather have some younger legs out there, and the Cub defense is pretty brutal.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

and his durability isn't that great.

 

And on what basis do you make this claim?

 

He's been hurt the past two season, and he'll be 33 next yr. I'd rather have some younger legs out there, and the Cub defense is pretty brutal.

 

Walker didn't go on the DL last year, what did he injure?

[CubfaninCA]

Alfonso Soriano (batting 6th) were in this line-up, we'd be a lot closer to the WC lead, if not leading it.

 

I sincerely doubt that the difference between Soriano and Walker is worth 6.5 games.

 

How about six weeks of Jerry Hairston and Jose Macias (and LOTS of Neifi) while Walker was hurt?

 

Good point. Thank you. If Nomar's back, I'd rather go for a defensive 2b like Orlando Hudson. Walker's a good hitter, but he doesn't have much range and his durability isn't that great.

 

Walker will never win a gold glove, but his defense has been right about average(97 rate, 2 runs below average) to go with his bat that is well above average. Add in the fact he's very cheap for next season and I'll definitely take him.

 

Why do you say that Walker's durability isn't that great? This year marked his first year on the disabled list in memory. He hasn't been on the DL from 2001 on, and he played 143 games exactly the 3 years prior to that. Seems to me that he's been quite durable over his career.

 

He has a team option and vesting option correct? Could he end up making more than 2.75 mil. next year?? With Nomar not looking good at all in the field, I want someone who's really good up the middle of the diamond. They can make up some of Walker's loss of production by getting Giles for right, which would be a HUGE upgrade over Burnitz.

[nilodnayr]

 

and his durability isn't that great.

 

And on what basis do you make this claim?

 

He's been hurt the past two season, and he'll be 33 next yr. I'd rather have some younger legs out there, and the Cub defense is pretty brutal.

 

I dont exactly remember him being hurt so much, maybe a little bit here and there. According to his game log he went one stretch where he didn't play in 4 games. Other than 2000 hes always played 140+ games. And as mentioned, Walkers defense is not the problem, hes been average. In fact this year hes been above average.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Alfonso Soriano (batting 6th) were in this line-up, we'd be a lot closer to the WC lead, if not leading it.

 

I sincerely doubt that the difference between Soriano and Walker is worth 6.5 games.

 

How about six weeks of Jerry Hairston and Jose Macias (and LOTS of Neifi) while Walker was hurt?

 

Good point. Thank you. If Nomar's back, I'd rather go for a defensive 2b like Orlando Hudson. Walker's a good hitter, but he doesn't have much range and his durability isn't that great.

 

Walker will never win a gold glove, but his defense has been right about average(97 rate, 2 runs below average) to go with his bat that is well above average. Add in the fact he's very cheap for next season and I'll definitely take him.

 

Why do you say that Walker's durability isn't that great? This year marked his first year on the disabled list in memory. He hasn't been on the DL from 2001 on, and he played 143 games exactly the 3 years prior to that. Seems to me that he's been quite durable over his career.

 

He has a team option and vesting option correct? Could he end up making more than 2.75 mil. next year?? With Nomar not looking good at all in the field, I want someone who's really good up the middle of the diamond. They can make up some of Walker's loss of production by getting Giles for right, which would be a HUGE upgrade over Burnitz.

 

Walker's option starts at 2.5 million and maxes at 2.75 million.

[CubfaninCA]

 

and his durability isn't that great.

 

And on what basis do you make this claim?

 

He's been hurt the past two season, and he'll be 33 next yr. I'd rather have some younger legs out there, and the Cub defense is pretty brutal.

 

Walker didn't go on the DL last year, what did he injure?

 

He missed some game's last year. Think he was banged up some. Lee, Walker, Nomar and ARam give the Cubs one of the best hitting infields in baseball, but they have to be near the bottom in fielding. Lee saves them from being the worse.

[nilodnayr]

Alfonso Soriano (batting 6th) were in this line-up, we'd be a lot closer to the WC lead, if not leading it.

 

I sincerely doubt that the difference between Soriano and Walker is worth 6.5 games.

 

How about six weeks of Jerry Hairston and Jose Macias (and LOTS of Neifi) while Walker was hurt?

 

Good point. Thank you. If Nomar's back, I'd rather go for a defensive 2b like Orlando Hudson. Walker's a good hitter, but he doesn't have much range and his durability isn't that great.

 

Walker will never win a gold glove, but his defense has been right about average(97 rate, 2 runs below average) to go with his bat that is well above average. Add in the fact he's very cheap for next season and I'll definitely take him.

 

Why do you say that Walker's durability isn't that great? This year marked his first year on the disabled list in memory. He hasn't been on the DL from 2001 on, and he played 143 games exactly the 3 years prior to that. Seems to me that he's been quite durable over his career.

 

He has a team option and vesting option correct? Could he end up making more than 2.75 mil. next year?? With Nomar not looking good at all in the field, I want someone who's really good up the middle of the diamond. They can make up some of Walker's loss of production by getting Giles for right, which would be a HUGE upgrade over Burnitz.

 

 

Cot's

 

According to Cot's he has a 2.5M club option that may vest at 2.5M or 2.75M depending on plate appearances that have not been disclosed. So he can't make more than 2.75M. Most likley being out for a month he may not vest, but probably will at 2.5M.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

and his durability isn't that great.

 

And on what basis do you make this claim?

 

He's been hurt the past two season, and he'll be 33 next yr. I'd rather have some younger legs out there, and the Cub defense is pretty brutal.

 

Walker didn't go on the DL last year, what did he injure?

 

He missed some game's last year. Think he was banged up some. Lee, Walker, Nomar and ARam give the Cubs one of the best hitting infields in baseball, but they have to be near the bottom in fielding. Lee saves them from being the worse.

 

Lee is very good, Ramirez is bad, Walker is average, and Nomar is an unknown, although admittedly his skills are deteriorating. Cedeno is an above average fielder, having him around to spell in the middle infield or even start at SS in '06 makes more sense than displacing a good, cheap option in Walker.

[nilodnayr]

 

and his durability isn't that great.

 

And on what basis do you make this claim?

 

He's been hurt the past two season, and he'll be 33 next yr. I'd rather have some younger legs out there, and the Cub defense is pretty brutal.

 

Walker didn't go on the DL last year, what did he injure?

 

He missed some game's last year. Think he was banged up some. Lee, Walker, Nomar and ARam give the Cubs one of the best hitting infields in baseball, but they have to be near the bottom in fielding. Lee saves them from being the worse.

 

Definitely not one of the best defensively, probably towards the bottom, but their offensive prowess way more than makes up for it.

[nilodnayr]

 

and his durability isn't that great.

 

And on what basis do you make this claim?

 

He's been hurt the past two season, and he'll be 33 next yr. I'd rather have some younger legs out there, and the Cub defense is pretty brutal.

 

Walker didn't go on the DL last year, what did he injure?

 

He missed some game's last year. Think he was banged up some. Lee, Walker, Nomar and ARam give the Cubs one of the best hitting infields in baseball, but they have to be near the bottom in fielding. Lee saves them from being the worse.

 

Lee is very good, Ramirez is bad, Walker is average, and Nomar is an unknown, although admittedly his skills are deteriorating. Cedeno is an above average fielder, having him around to spell in the middle infield or even start at SS in '06 makes more sense than displacing a good, cheap option in Walker.

 

Good point, if you combine Nomar and Cedeno, worst case scenario we get average defense from ss. So bad+average+average+ really good=average defense.

[CubfaninCA]

Just a hypothetical here....

 

IF the Cubs sign Giles, keep Lawton for leadoff, and bring back Nomar (all plausible), there's not a big need for Walker. They could put a 1-7 of Lawton, Nomar, Giles Lee, ARam, Patterson or Pie, and Barrett out there.

 

IF they get Giles and keep Lawton and Nomar, I'd rather see them deal Walker and Murton for an arm, and get some d @ 2b. Hudson's career ops is around .750, I think, and that isn't a far cry from what Walker has done over his career, and Hudson has tons of range and a real strong arm. Also, Hudson's will be 28, whereas Walker will be 33. One on the probable decline, the other allegedly entering his prime.

 

IF the Cubs don't bring back Nomar and go w/ Cedeno, I'd prefer to keep Walker.

[CubfaninCA]

 

and his durability isn't that great.

 

And on what basis do you make this claim?

 

He's been hurt the past two season, and he'll be 33 next yr. I'd rather have some younger legs out there, and the Cub defense is pretty brutal.

 

Walker didn't go on the DL last year, what did he injure?

 

He missed some game's last year. Think he was banged up some. Lee, Walker, Nomar and ARam give the Cubs one of the best hitting infields in baseball, but they have to be near the bottom in fielding. Lee saves them from being the worse.

 

Definitely not one of the best defensively, probably towards the bottom, but their offensive prowess way more than makes up for it.

 

Well Theo went for d in his infield. Renteria's real good, and my guess is that Mueller still ranks quite high.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Just a hypothetical here....

 

IF the Cubs sign Giles, keep Lawton for leadoff, and bring back Nomar (all plausible), there's not a big need for Walker. They could put a 1-7 of Lawton, Nomar, Giles Lee, ARam, Patterson or Pie, and Barrett out there.

 

IF they get Giles and keep Lawton and Nomar, I'd rather see them deal Walker and Murton for an arm, and get some d @ 2b. Hudson's career ops is around .750, I think, and that isn't a far cry from what Walker has done over his career, and Hudson has tons of range and a real strong arm. Also, Hudson's will be 28, whereas Walker will be 33. One on the probable decline, the other allegedly entering his prime.

 

IF the Cubs don't bring back Nomar and go w/ Cedeno, I'd prefer to keep Walker.

 

How are you going to get Hudson? Toronto still thinks pretty highly of him I believe.

[OldHappyCubFan]

Toronto is NOT gonna let Hudson go.

 

They're increasing payroll as we speak, and fully plan on fielding a high caliber team for seasons to come. Management has made that stand.

[AAApittsburgh]

Hudson's bat doesn't impress me that much. I think he'd be much more valuable if he can play SS.

[nilodnayr]

 

Well Theo went for d in his infield. Renteria's real good, and my guess is that Mueller still ranks quite high.

 

Renterias been an absolute hack in the field this year. Leads the league in errors and is .003 away from being in the cellar in fielding percentage among qualified shortstops. Mueller is still one of the better thirdbasemen in the league. Millar is garbage. Walker is just as good as Horny. I wouldnt say that Theo went for D in his infield at all.

[CubfaninCA]

 

Well Theo went for d in his infield. Renteria's real good, and my guess is that Mueller still ranks quite high.

 

Renterias been an absolute hack in the field this year. Leads the league in errors and is .003 away from being in the cellar in fielding percentage among qualified shortstops. Mueller is still one of the better thirdbasemen in the league. Millar is garbage. Walker is just as good as Horny. I wouldnt say that Theo went for D in his infield at all.

 

Renteria wasn't considered really good in the field before he got there?? Why would Theo sign him for such money then?? Doubtful it was for his bat.