The Pitchers we can trade for....

[Guest]

I'm resigned to the fact we're trading one of Javy or Soler. I just want the best young pitcher that it'll net us. And in doing so, I completely expect us to still be able to grab a truly elite FA in the process. Its starting to look to me that there's not a bunch available either. Its a means to an end thing, I guess. I didn't like what Boston had to give up for Kimbrel. But they've still got tons of assets and money to spend. So in the end, I get why they did it. That's kind of what I suspect happens with us in this scenario.

 

I'm kind of guessing we don't trade either. As Gato mentioned in the other thread, part of why Boston gave up so much for Kimbrel is that they'd been dangling those guys for starting pitchers and didn't seem like anyone was interested in trading young, high-quality pitching. I think we'd *like* to make a Baez or Soler for great young pitcher trade, but I'm not sure we'll find anyone to give us what we want, and this front office loves pulling the "Fine, we'll just run with what we have" card.

 

this sounds about right.

 

i could see a trade of minor league guys for a lesser pitcher, maybe.

[davell]

I think we're going to have to. I definitely think they'll get one e!ite FA. I think they're counting on a trade to give them either the 2nd SP or the CF. But in either case, they'll need to be cheap. Dependent on which way it goes, I'm expecting the other gets 7-10 mill per on a short deal thrown at it.

 

1 big FA, one nice trade, and a stopgap type that nets us 2 pitchers and a CF. Head into the year with a 94ish win team on paper.

[cubfro]

docking a 22 year old with about a half season of MLB experience and a 23 year old rookie is a lot different than docking a 3rd or 4th year guy. what teheran did this year is kinda like what castro did in 2013, just not as severe. when a guy has already shown he has figured out the big leagues for a while and then loses it, that's a lot more concerning to me than a young player with a strong minor league track record who hasn't yet figured out the big leagues. maybe it's wrong or irrational, but it makes sense to me.

 

plus i'm the president of the javy fan club. that type of power with good middle infield defense is too tantalizing. and he does whatever the [expletive] he wants, like hit go ahead 3 run dongs to vanquish the hopes and souls of the cardinals in the playoffs, so he'll obviously figure it out.

 

 

Castro plus a pitching prospect or two actually would make a lot of sense and be a pretty even trade. :-k

[Guest]

I think we're going to have to. I definitely think they'll get one e!ite FA. I think they're counting on a trade to give them either the 2nd SP or the CF. But in either case, they'll need to be cheap. Dependent on which way it goes, I'm expecting the other gets 7-10 mill per on a short deal thrown at it.

 

1 big FA, one nice trade, and a stopgap type that nets us 2 pitchers and a CF. Head into the year with a 94ish win team on paper.

 

If you see them getting an elite sp, I don't really see the need for a second starter.

 

Maybe someone as depth, but nothing that would take serious trade chips. If something presents itself to upgrade the four or five spot, sure, they do that, but I don't see why they'd do something that they don't consider fair value. Like Kyle said, they'll just roll with what they have.

 

We may not like hammel, but he's more than fine as a five

[Guest]

Sierra as the second (or third) sp.

[Guest]

¡Todos los Cubanos!

[Cubswin11]

I think we're going to have to. I definitely think they'll get one e!ite FA. I think they're counting on a trade to give them either the 2nd SP or the CF. But in either case, they'll need to be cheap. Dependent on which way it goes, I'm expecting the other gets 7-10 mill per on a short deal thrown at it.

 

1 big FA, one nice trade, and a stopgap type that nets us 2 pitchers and a CF. Head into the year with a 94ish win team on paper.

 

If you see them getting an elite sp, I don't really see the need for a second starter.

 

Maybe someone as depth, but nothing that would take serious trade chips. If something presents itself to upgrade the four or five spot, sure, they do that, but I don't see why they'd do something that they don't consider fair value. Like Kyle said, they'll just roll with what they have.

 

We may not like hammel, but he's more than fine as a five

I agree, if they get an "elite" SP (either thru trade or with money) I don't see them spending any more significant resources on another SP and probably at most bringing in a guy like Bud Norris as depth or whatever you would call an addition of guy like him. I also am completely fine with Hammel as the 5, especially if they feel the 2nd half was due to fatigue/mechanics going out of whack/etc. and not any sort of injury that would linger or loss of stuff.

[Guest]

As Gato mentioned in the other thread, part of why Boston gave up so much for Kimbrel is that they'd been dangling those guys for starting pitchers and didn't seem like anyone was interested in trading young, high-quality pitching. I think we'd *like* to make a Baez or Soler for great young pitcher trade, but I'm not sure we'll find anyone to give us what we want, and this front office loves pulling the "Fine, we'll just run with what we have" card.

 

This is another reason I'm really big on trading for Teheran, we can have at least a little certainty that he's available in trade for players the Cubs can afford to trade. For others in that category(Ross, Carrasco/Salazar, Paxton/Walker, Gausman, etc) there's at least indicators that might happen, but there's less smoke that they're willing to trade those guys for anything less than a ransom. Atlanta's rebuild, thriftiness, and Teheran's 2015 are positives in that respect. Add in that there isn't really a Hamels(real good but expensive starter on a team that's going nowhere) this offseason, and it's even more reason for teams to hold their pitchers tight and hang on for outsized returns.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I'm resigned to the fact we're trading one of Javy or Soler. I just want the best young pitcher that it'll net us. And in doing so, I completely expect us to still be able to grab a truly elite FA in the process.

 

But if we do land an elite FA SP to go along with Arrieta and Lester, do we really need to give up that much for what would end up being our #4 starter?

 

With that kind of 1-3, would Hammel-Hendricks pencilled in at 4-5 really be the worst thing? Or even a bad thing? And after seeing what they've done with Maholm, Feldman, Hammel, and of course, Arrieta, I'm more than confidant that they can keep digging up bodies for Bosio to work with.

[davell]

I'm resigned to the fact we're trading one of Javy or Soler. I just want the best young pitcher that it'll net us. And in doing so, I completely expect us to still be able to grab a truly elite FA in the process.

 

But if we do land an elite FA SP to go along with Arrieta and Lester, do we really need to give up that much for what would end up being our #4 starter?

 

With that kind of 1-3, would Hammel-Hendricks pencilled in at 4-5 really be the worst thing? Or even a bad thing? And after seeing what they've done with Maholm, Feldman, Hammel, and of course, Arrieta, I'm more than confidant that they can keep digging up bodies for Bosio to work with.

 

Its not a bad thing. I'm not so sure they don't move Hammel though in order to give them a bit more money for other stuff.

[Backtobanks]

Much of the discussion since my post on acquiring Teheran, Maybin, and Ross ignored the fact of getting Maybin also. Solving 3 spots with young controllable players is going to be expensive in terms of players. Give Bosio a chance at Teheran and we might have a long term starter.

[Guest]

Much of the discussion since my post on acquiring Teheran, Maybin, and Ross ignored the fact of getting Maybin also. Solving 3 spots with young controllable players is going to be expensive in terms of players. Give Bosio a chance at Teheran and we might have a long term starter.

Are you implying that Maybin and Ross are young? Cameron Maybin will be 29 all of next year. He's not that young. Tyson Ross will be 29 (almost) all of next year. He's not that young.

[Guest]

Also, we do have some money to spend. We don't have to go the budget route on all of our acquisitions.

 

If taking on Maybin will make the cost of Teheran cheaper, then fine. But I don't really want to acquire a CF for next year that was a negative at the plate and in the field last year.

[KingCubsFan]

Also, we do have some money to spend. We don't have to go the budget route on all of our acquisitions.

 

If taking on Maybin will make the cost of Teheran cheaper, then fine. But I don't really want to acquire a CF for next year that was a negative at the plate and in the field last year.

A guy like Maybin has no business starting on this team. We need something better in CF.

[Guest]

Here's today's idea of what I want this christmas:

 

1) Heyward - I still believe he'll find power as he ages

2) Shark - I think he's fixable and you get a near-ace level guy at a bit of a discount

3) Hill - let him compete with Hammel for the last spot in the rotation. Sign him to a dual contract, if possible

4) O'Day - Fill up the pen

5) Blevins - Assuming he's fully back from injury he's a solid lefty.

6) Sierra - Let him compete for the rotation, but he'll have options

7) Lots of other IFA

 

If we can fit all that in without trading Cogs, Castro & Wood, then keep them all. Backload Heyward and Shark, if necessary. It would be fabulous going into a season with an awesome bench, for once. It would give us depth and competition at pretty much every position and in the rotation and in the pen.

[Guest]

Also, we do have some money to spend. We don't have to go the budget route on all of our acquisitions.

 

If taking on Maybin will make the cost of Teheran cheaper, then fine. But I don't really want to acquire a CF for next year that was a negative at the plate and in the field last year.

A guy like Maybin has no business starting on this team. We need something better in CF.

If we got him, I'd still want to take a flier on Span to be the starter. Maybin could back him up.

[SRQCub]

If we're set on trading away Baez and/or Soler, I want to kick the tires on Jose Fernandez. The Marlins have completely [expletive] the bed in dealing with Boras on this one, and would benefit from seeing what they can get for him.

 

Slot him in at #4, let him throw 160 innings, and be ready to throw money at him in a couple of years.

[Backtobanks]

Much of the discussion since my post on acquiring Teheran, Maybin, and Ross ignored the fact of getting Maybin also. Solving 3 spots with young controllable players is going to be expensive in terms of players. Give Bosio a chance at Teheran and we might have a long term starter.

Are you implying that Maybin and Ross are young? Cameron Maybin will be 29 all of next year. He's not that young. Tyson Ross will be 29 (almost) all of next year. He's not that young.

 

Get a year or two out of Maybin until Almora/McKinney/Happ are ready. Ross at 29 gives us a few years. If Bosio "fixes" Teheran you've got a solid starter for a long time.

Also, we do have some money to spend. We don't have to go the budget route on all of our acquisitions.

 

If taking on Maybin will make the cost of Teheran cheaper, then fine. But I don't really want to acquire a CF for next year that was a negative at the plate and in the field last year.

 

For the money to spend on a big-time FA, go after Heyward or Upton for RF. Rizzo, Bryant. Schwarber, Heyward/Upton, etc. would provide enough offense to compensate for Maybin in CF.

[KingCubsFan]

Much of the discussion since my post on acquiring Teheran, Maybin, and Ross ignored the fact of getting Maybin also. Solving 3 spots with young controllable players is going to be expensive in terms of players. Give Bosio a chance at Teheran and we might have a long term starter.

Are you implying that Maybin and Ross are young? Cameron Maybin will be 29 all of next year. He's not that young. Tyson Ross will be 29 (almost) all of next year. He's not that young.

 

Get a year or two out of Maybin until Almora/McKinney/Happ are ready. Ross at 29 gives us a few years. If Bosio "fixes" Teheran you've got a solid starter for a long time.

Also, we do have some money to spend. We don't have to go the budget route on all of our acquisitions.

 

If taking on Maybin will make the cost of Teheran cheaper, then fine. But I don't really want to acquire a CF for next year that was a negative at the plate and in the field last year.

 

For the money to spend on a big-time FA, go after Heyward or Upton for RF. Rizzo, Bryant. Schwarber, Heyward/Upton, etc. would provide enough offense to compensate for Maybin in CF.

If you're going for defense only in CF, there are better options than paying Maybin $9 million. At that price, I'd rather just throw Almora out there and let him hit 7th.

[Guest]

If you're going for defense only in CF, there are better options than paying Maybin $9 million. At that price, I'd rather just throw Almora out there and let him hit 7th.

 

The benefit of Maybin is two-fold:

 

- He is a very good fit for the roster. As a RH bat that can capably play CF, he serves as a platoon/handcuff if the new full-time CF has risk(like Span's hips, or Parra's lack of bat against LHP). There's other opportunities for playing time as well considering that Schwarber could catch some next year, Soler's had trouble staying healthy, and both are candidates for defensive replacements. Maybin is also similar to Montero last year in that his overall production might undersell his value in less of a full-time role. He's had recurring injury problems and last year seemed to wear down over the course of a full season as a starter(.338 wOBA first half, .267 second half).

 

- He helps lower the cost of adding Teheran. Maybin is a bit overpaid(although not by much, you aren't getting a player of his caliber in FA for < 5 million AAV), but his inclusion in a trade helps lower the price in players by taking on his contract. We saw the Cubs do this last year in the Montero deal, and the Braves do this last year in the Kimbrel deal, so there's reason to believe it could happen again. Could Almora potentially fill the same role for 500k? Possibly, but while I'm optimistic about the end of his season he still has a fair bit to prove before he's considered on Maybin's level in terms of expected MLB performance. Plus the Cubs adding depth is not a bad thing, especially in the OF where there's a lot of uncertainty and a lot of opportunities to mix and match to win games.

[Guest]

He's likely to lower the cost of getting Teheran...but I don't know if that's a certainty. There are more optimal ways to fill SP/CF in my mind.

[Guest]

He's likely to lower the cost of getting Teheran...but I don't know if that's a certainty. There are more optimal ways to fill SP/CF in my mind.

 

Nothing is guaranteed, but it's difficult to see that not being the case. Their front office did it with Kimbrel/Upton to clear salary, they're heavily rumored to be shopping any contract of significance right now, even Freeman.

 

To fill a SP and reserve CF/OF for 12 million plus the player cost is not a heist, but it's going to be pretty difficult to do more efficiently. Other SP are going to cost a good bit more in players and/or dollars, and while you can probably get a better deal on a not-quite-full-time CF, it won't be the savings of the same magnitude as Teheran v. the alternatives will be.

[Guest]

He's likely to lower the cost of getting Teheran...but I don't know if that's a certainty. There are more optimal ways to fill SP/CF in my mind.

 

Nothing is guaranteed, but it's difficult to see that not being the case. Their front office did it with Kimbrel/Upton to clear salary, they're heavily rumored to be shopping any contract of significance right now, even Freeman.

 

To fill a SP and reserve CF/OF for 12 million plus the player cost is not a heist, but it's going to be pretty difficult to do more efficiently. Other SP are going to cost a good bit more in players and/or dollars, and while you can probably get a better deal on a not-quite-full-time CF, it won't be the savings of the same magnitude as Teheran v. the alternatives will be.

As we've discussed, I don't have the same level of confidence in Teheran in the #3 spot in the rotation. He doesn't have options, so you're either committed to him at that position in the rotation or you're committed to dealing Hammel or putting him in the pen. I'd rather fill the #3 spot with someone I have more confidence in and then pick up depth options that I can sign with options (Sierra, ?) or a dual contract (Hill, Norris, ?).

 

However, adding up the price tag on today's Christmas wish list for me, I get something like $60M. So I may not be able to get someone at the Shark/Cueto level as a second addition after Heyward and still do the other things on the list. Most all of the pitchers below that tier are going to either have similar questions as Teheran or have a limited upside.

 

I guess it all comes down to the player cost. If that's shaping up to be Baez+, then I don't like the use of resources. For an all-prospect deal, I'd almost certainly be fine with it.

[davell]

Growing sentiment around Baseball and internally with the @marlins is Jose Fernandez will be traded this offseason.

[Guest]

Growing sentiment around Baseball and internally with the @marlins is Jose Fernandez will be traded this offseason.

 

ok well that guy i would trade stuff i like for