2015 lineup or no?

[Guest]

Did 'without cash' mean the Phillies are paying for all of Hamels' deal? Otherwise it's like signing an elite pitching FA and then releasing Castro out of spite. Hamels doesn't come close to Castro in value.

You're right its just that simple.

[George Hayduke]

He is number one by a large margin this year: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=1657933

 

19th last year, and 15th in 2012.

 

What exactly am I looking at in this chart?

[Guest]

An elite pitcher with a very reasonable amount of time on his deal that we couldn't get without a trade involved. As for value, what the [expletive] ever, let Boxcar Ricketts figure out the value.

[Guest]

I mean, is there a pitcher out there of Hamels's caliber and age that we could sign to a 4 year deal this offseason?

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

He is number one by a large margin this year: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=1657933

 

19th last year, and 15th in 2012.

 

What exactly am I looking at in this chart?

a 30-year old pitcher coming off shoulder inflammation being abused by his meatball manager.

[Guest]

Hamels goes 0 for 3 in offering age, price, or elite potential. You want at least 2 when trading Castro. Hamels has been consistently very good but never great, and he's going to betting worse from 31-34. He's an interesting target because of the set duration and his consistency, but that's not the end all.

[Guest]

He is number one by a large margin this year: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=1657933

 

19th last year, and 15th in 2012.

 

What exactly am I looking at in this chart?

a 30-year old pitcher coming off shoulder inflammation being abused by his meatball manager.

a good reason to get him away from sandberg.

[George Hayduke]

He is number one by a large margin this year: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=1657933

 

19th last year, and 15th in 2012.

 

What exactly am I looking at in this chart?

a 30-year old pitcher coming off shoulder inflammation being abused by his meatball manager.

 

I gathered that, but specifically how is the "Total PAP" stat calculated? Or at least what does it represent?

[Guest]

He is number one by a large margin this year: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=1657933

 

19th last year, and 15th in 2012.

Yeah, those pitchers are all the best ones.

[MSG T]

I mean, is there a pitcher out there of Hamels's caliber and age that we could sign to a 4 year deal this offseason?

 

Jon Lester is 11 days younger and, at least this year, has been a better pitcher and abused far less.

 

Now, could the Cubs sign him for 4 years? Probably not.

[Guest]

I mean, is there a pitcher out there of Hamels's caliber and age that we could sign to a 4 year deal this offseason?

 

Jon Lester is 11 days younger and, at least this year, has been a better pitcher and abused far less.

 

 

 

Now, could the Cubs sign him for 4 years? Probably not.

But thats the whole point.

They'd have to 6 years and pay him well into ineffectivity.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Stannis

[MSG T]

I guess I should add...if the choice is Lester for 4-6 years (assuming similar AAV) and just money or Hamels for 4 years and losing Castro, that's so easy it's stupid...Lester.

[MSG T]

I mean, is there a pitcher out there of Hamels's caliber and age that we could sign to a 4 year deal this offseason?

 

Jon Lester is 11 days younger and, at least this year, has been a better pitcher and abused far less.

 

But thats the whole point.

 

Now, could the Cubs sign him for 4 years? Probably not.

They'd have to 6 years and pay him well into ineffectivity.

 

 

But they'd only be paying money, not giving up a commodity at least as valuable as what they'd be getting in return (when their actual salary is figured in).

 

Lester + Castro is >>>>> Hamels w/no Castro

[Guest]

I guess I should add...if the choice is Lester for 4-6 years (assuming similar AAV) and just money or Hamels for 4 years and losing Castro, that's so easy it's stupid...Lester.

It ain't gonna be 4 years for Lester. That's stupid. And there's no guarantee of a signing.

[Guest]

I mean, is there a pitcher out there of Hamels's caliber and age that we could sign to a 4 year deal this offseason?

 

Jon Lester is 11 days younger and, at least this year, has been a better pitcher and abused far less.

 

But thats the whole point.

 

Now, could the Cubs sign him for 4 years? Probably not.

They'd have to 6 years and pay him well into ineffectivity.

 

 

But they'd only be paying money, not giving up a commodity at least as valuable as what they'd be getting in return (when their actual salary is figured in).

 

Lester + Castro is >>>>> Hamels w/no Castro

Like I said, there's no telling if another team won't bid u I'm up so high he'll get 10 years.

 

Castro is also replaceable.

[MSG T]

I guess I should add...if the choice is Lester for 4-6 years (assuming similar AAV) and just money or Hamels for 4 years and losing Castro, that's so easy it's stupid...Lester.

It ain't gonna be 4 years for Lester. That's stupid. And there's no guarantee of a signing.

 

6 years of Lester + Castro is still >>> Hamels w/no Castro

 

I get it, you love Hamels, but giving up Castro for him is dumb when there are other, and better, alternatives.

[Guest]

There's also the fact that Lester is demonstrably a better pitcher than Hamels. At least you have the chance of getting a 5 win season out of Lester, and he doesn't have the recent injury history.

[Guest]

I guess I should add...if the choice is Lester for 4-6 years (assuming similar AAV) and just money or Hamels for 4 years and losing Castro, that's so easy it's stupid...Lester.

It ain't gonna be 4 years for Lester. That's stupid. And there's no guarantee of a signing.

 

6 years of Lester + Castro is still >>> Hamels w/no Castro

 

I get it, you love Hamels, but giving up Castro for him is dumb when there are other, and better, alternatives.

I don't get the alternatives. Again, free agents don't have to pick the cubs no matter how much you stress Lester and Castro tag team..

Edited August 8, 2014 by Stannis

[MSG T]

There's also the fact that Lester is demonstrably a better pitcher than Hamels.

 

Exactly

[treebird]

i think sulley is going too far with this and i absolutely would not have traded castro for hamels, but a lot of people are underrating the value in knowing that you'll get a guy rather than just having a chance to bid on him. it's all well and good to say oh just go sign lester, but a bunch of teams are saying that. we'll have the money to make whatever offer we like for lester, but that's far from a guarantee that we'll get him. even offering the most money (which is something that would honestly surprise me) is no guarantee. lots of teams have lots of money and every team wants great starting pitchers.

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

so the cubs are the only team that are allowed to trade for hamels?

[Guest]

There's also the fact that Lester is demonstrably a better pitcher than Hamels. At least you have the chance of getting a 5 win season out of Lester, and he doesn't have the recent injury history.

I don't get how that's "demonstrably" lol true.

[Guest]

so the cubs are the only team that are allowed to trade for hamels?

Far fewer teams can.

[Guest]

i think sulley is going too far with this and i absolutely would not have traded castro for hamels, but a lot of people are underrating the value in knowing that you'll get a guy rather than just having a chance to bid on him. it's all well and good to say oh just go sign lester, but a bunch of teams are saying that. we'll have the money to make whatever offer we like for lester, but that's far from a guarantee that we'll get him. even offering the most money (which is something that would honestly surprise me) is no guarantee. lots of teams have lots of money and every team wants great starting pitchers.

 

 

Well yeah if we're going to talk practically, there's the difference on both sides. We aren't signing Lester or Scherzer for 4 years, but it's also been abundantly clear that Hamels wasn't/isn't going to be coming for less than what Sulley thinks Castro is worth(far less than actual value, but still a lot/too much). I guess we can hope whoever they replace Amaro with is a bit more sane, but there's still the same bidder problem in trading for Hamels in the offseason that there is in signing a FA pitcher. This is another reason to do something like trade Alcantara for a pre-FA(hopefully pre-arb) pitcher. young cost controlled bats have never been more valuable, and we could quite easily be the only team in baseball in a position to trade one to add pitching.

[Guest]

I guess the moral is stop being willfully ignorant of all variables because of your unreasonable love for Castro who isn't that good anyway.