05/27 COBS (Garza) @ Pirates (Bedard) 12:35 WGN

[davell]

Honest question: Can we even go 48-67 to finish off the season and avoid 100 losses?

[Guest]

You're my favorite poster on here. Enjoy your opinions, even when I don't agree with them.

 

I believe you know better than this, and that this is all due to the rage you mention. You know enough about baseball to know that Theo Epstein knows what he is doing. The problem with going through a rebuilding season and tearing something down -- whether people agreed it needed to or not -- is that it's going to be a painful thing to watch.

 

Things will be fine. We have the proper people in charge now. Brighter days are ahead. Within three years, we will be one of the best teams in the National League.

 

To even question Theo or wonder about things right now is ignorant. This wasn't supposed to be a good season. There will be better ones very soon.

 

I'm sorry, but just assuming/allowing a season to be bad isn't acceptable. It's like people are hoping that because they're so bad something good must come out of it, but sometimes a team is just bad and it just means you have an even deeper hole to dig out of. Again, it shouldn't ever be necessary for the Cubs to "tear a team down;" contrary to what is often said, it's not as if they're choked by long-term contracts for unproductive players. They have one of those. They're not beholden to the limitations of a small market team like the Royals or the Pirates. They have the luxury of having the option to rebuild AND not put a team of garbage on the field, and they failed to do so. That's not a good thing. The team being good in, say, three seasons and being horrible THIS season are not necessarily on the same path.

 

You have no idea what their financial situation is like at this point. I don't think Ricketts is blowing smoke with the comments about the state of Wrigley and the financial toll that takes on the team (and he said it comes directly out of the baseball budget). Also, I'm pretty sure a decent amount of the money that "wasn't spent" this offseason is going to Soler.

[Sammy Sofa]

I know you think it's only Rizzo that they have done well with. But Travis Wood could still present value. LaHair has struggled, but that's still a win. Shark has developed when they gave him a chance to start. At least Ian is good on defense. DeJesus is fun to watch and a solid player.

 

I appreciate the discussion. You're right about Wood right now, and I hope he keeps it up. LaHair I've never been sold on and I'm still not, and playing him is something that Hendry likely would have done, too. Same with signing someone like DeJesus, and starting Shark likely would have happened regardless. I appreciate the Stewart trade, but I guess it's the timing; I'll appreciate those moves more when the team isn't horrible and the guy isn't effectively replacing one of my favorite players ever.

[Sammy Sofa]

You have no idea what their financial situation is like at this point. I don't think Ricketts is blowing smoke with the comments about the state of Wrigley and the financial toll that takes on the team (and he said it comes directly out of the baseball budget). Also, I'm pretty sure a decent amount of the money that "wasn't spent" this offseason is going to Soler.

 

Bull [expletive]. Theo and co. weren't going to come here if they didn't have money to spend. I don't believe that for a second. If they're going to struggle to handle their current payroll, around $90 million, then they're in trouble for a while.

[cl smooth]

I'm sorry, but just assuming/allowing a season to be bad isn't acceptable. It's like people are hoping that because they're so bad something good must come out of it, but sometimes a team is just bad and it just means you have an even deeper hole to dig out of. Again, it shouldn't ever be necessary for the Cubs to "tear a team down;" contrary to what is often said, it's not as if they're choked by long-term contracts for unproductive players. They have one of those. They're not beholden to the limitations of a small market team like the Royals or the Pirates. They have the luxury of having the option to rebuild AND not put a team of garbage on the field, and they failed to do so. That's not a good thing. The team being good in, say, three seasons and being horrible THIS season are not necessarily on the same path. It's not like it's a sure thing to say, "man, it's great that the Cubs are good in 2016, and it was necessary to be absolutely wretched in 2012 for it to happen!"

 

I mean, really, what is the benefit? How does losing around 100 games put you in a better position to win sooner than losing around 80 games? Draft slots don't make that much of a difference in this game.

 

i prefer to have a respectable ballclub out on the field than the total suckage we've been seeing for the last 11 going on 12 games (or the last 9 weeks, depending on your point of view), but out of curiosity, who would you have signed and/or traded during the offseason to make this team better? i don't like the white flag lineup that's out there today as much as the next person, but outside of pujols/cj wilson/darvish/fielder, what were the better options in the free agent and trade market that would have taken the place of darwin barney, jeff baker, joe mather and the like?

[Bryants Disco Ball]

I know you think it's only Rizzo that they have done well with. But Travis Wood could still present value. LaHair has struggled, but that's still a win. Shark has developed when they gave him a chance to start. At least Ian is good on defense. DeJesus is fun to watch and a solid player.

 

I appreciate the discussion. You're right about Wood right now, and I hope he keeps it up. LaHair I've never been sold on and I'm still not, and playing him is something that Hendry likely would have done, too. Same with signing someone like DeJesus, and starting Shark likely would have happened regardless. I appreciate the Stewart trade, but I guess it's the timing; I'll appreciate those moves more when the team isn't horrible and the guy isn't effectively replacing one of my favorite players ever.

 

Appreciate the discussion as well.

 

On the bright side, imagine having perhaps the best hitter in the game and for sure the best pitcher, signing Prince Fielder, and still being two games below .500 right now in a crappy division. Now, THAT would be frustrating. Get it going, Detroit.

[Careless]

CUBS are 5-7 when the opponents get a quality start.... 10-24 when they don't

 

 

Go CUBS !!

That's odd.

[Careless]

CUBS are 5-7 when the opponents get a quality start.... 10-24 when they don't

 

 

Go CUBS !!

That's odd.

[Guest]

You have no idea what their financial situation is like at this point. I don't think Ricketts is blowing smoke with the comments about the state of Wrigley and the financial toll that takes on the team (and he said it comes directly out of the baseball budget). Also, I'm pretty sure a decent amount of the money that "wasn't spent" this offseason is going to Soler.

 

Bull [expletive]. Theo and co. weren't going to come here if they didn't have money to spend. I don't believe that for a second. If they're going to struggle to handle their current payroll, around $90 million, then they're in trouble for a while.

 

 

So you just think Theo wouldn't have come here without money to spend...but then he did come here, had money to spend, and is choosing not to?

 

I'm not saying they are going to struggle to handle their current payroll. I do think they would have a hard time spending enough to make this team not be bad through free agency, as inefficient as FA is.

 

I'm also just not sure what moves they could've made that would change the way things are going now right now. What can you blame them for?

 

Darvish - blind bid. You might say Cespedes was attainable and his contract wasn't ridiculous... but he has pretty much sucked since the second week anyway.

[d_money]

Does the entire coaching staff get a free pass this year? Bosio?

[Sammy Sofa]

Add Cespedes to that list, too. I still think he's going to be worth that 4-year deal.

 

And I have no idea what other moves that could have been made. Something tells me there were some out there when the current reality is fielding the worst team in baseball.

 

I mean, why do we have to excuse this? The front office failed completely and utterly. That doesn't mean they can't succeed down the line and we can't appreciate it, but why try and dress up a turd?

[Fred Hornkohl]

CUBS are 5-7 when the opponents get a quality start.... 10-24 when they don't

 

 

Go CUBS !!

That's odd.

 

That's your Chicago CUBS !! :wink:

[cl smooth]

Does the entire coaching staff get a free pass this year? Bosio?

 

i don't think you can blame your pitching coach when your entire bullpen sucks. you can't shine [expletive].

[Guest]

I'm sorry, but just assuming/allowing a season to be bad isn't acceptable. It's like people are hoping that because they're so bad something good must come out of it, but sometimes a team is just bad and it just means you have an even deeper hole to dig out of. Again, it shouldn't ever be necessary for the Cubs to "tear a team down;" contrary to what is often said, it's not as if they're choked by long-term contracts for unproductive players. They have one of those. They're not beholden to the limitations of a small market team like the Royals or the Pirates. They have the luxury of having the option to rebuild AND not put a team of garbage on the field, and they failed to do so. That's not a good thing. The team being good in, say, three seasons and being horrible THIS season are not necessarily on the same path. It's not like it's a sure thing to say, "man, it's great that the Cubs are good in 2016, and it was necessary to be absolutely wretched in 2012 for it to happen!"

 

I mean, really, what is the benefit? How does losing around 100 games put you in a better position to win sooner than losing around 80 games? Draft slots don't make that much of a difference in this game.

 

i prefer to have a respectable ballclub out on the field than the total suckage we've been seeing for the last 11 going on 12 games (or the last 9 weeks, depending on your point of view), but out of curiosity, who would you have signed and/or traded during the offseason to make this team better? i don't like the white flag lineup that's out there today as much as the next person, but outside of pujols/cj wilson/darvish/fielder, what were the better options in the free agent and trade market that would have taken the place of darwin barney, jeff baker, joe mather and the like?

 

i know it's baseball and all and draft picks dont matter that much... but if you mean respectable as in bad but respectable, i'd rather just have the total suckage. it's easier to add an elite player to the system immediately with the #1 or 2 pick than it is with the 16th or something. especially without overslots. that's just from a personal standpoint. that's not to say it's a great business decision for the franchise or anything like that. because it's not.

[Sammy Sofa]

You have no idea what their financial situation is like at this point. I don't think Ricketts is blowing smoke with the comments about the state of Wrigley and the financial toll that takes on the team (and he said it comes directly out of the baseball budget). Also, I'm pretty sure a decent amount of the money that "wasn't spent" this offseason is going to Soler.

 

Bull [expletive]. Theo and co. weren't going to come here if they didn't have money to spend. I don't believe that for a second. If they're going to struggle to handle their current payroll, around $90 million, then they're in trouble for a while.

 

 

So you just think Theo wouldn't have come here without money to spend...but then he did come here, had money to spend, and is choosing not to?

 

Nope. The FO failed to spend it.

 

Darvish - blind bid. You might say Cespedes was attainable and his contract wasn't ridiculous... but he has pretty much sucked since the second week anyway.

 

Cespedes has been injured almost the entire month and it was expected he'd need much of the first season to adjust. I'm still pissed they didn't make that deal. And like I said, I don't what other deals were out there to be made, but considering where the team is (worst in MLB) and how most of the offseason was defined by inaction I think it's a safe bet they could have made some moves to be at least a bit better and ideally have more actual assets.

[Guest]

i'm still going to check them out when they come to citi field in early july, but my god is this team tough to watch. :banghead:

 

Yeah, I'll see them at Dodger Stadium. I do believe Rizzo will be up by then (August).

 

On the flip side, there was another vicious beating at Dodger Stadium last week, so there's that.

[Sammy Sofa]

Does the entire coaching staff get a free pass this year? Bosio?

 

i don't think you can blame your pitching coach when your entire bullpen sucks. you can't shine [expletive].

 

Yeah, and there's been enough out of starting pitching for me to appreciate what Bosio's done. I like a lot of what Sweum has done, too. Kinda over Jaramillio, though. I know he's had a ton of [expletive] to work with, but come on.

[d_money]

Does the entire coaching staff get a free pass this year? Bosio?

 

i don't think you can blame your pitching coach when your entire bullpen sucks. you can't shine [expletive].

just looking for some accountability some where

[Guest]

Add Cespedes to that list, too. I still think he's going to be worth that 4-year deal.

 

And I have no idea what other moves that could have been made. Something tells me there were some out there when the current reality is fielding the worst team in baseball.

 

I mean, why do we have to excuse this? The front office failed completely and utterly. That doesn't mean they can't succeed down the line and we can't appreciate it, but why try and dress up a turd?

 

I mean, are you pissed because we might lose 100 games instead of 90? Why does that bother you so much?

 

Suck is suck.

 

What did the front office fail at? A three month rebuild in an offseason in which the 2 best players on the market were signed to contracts that a NL team would have to be criminally insane/stupid to sign?

[Guest]

Yay Starlin bomb

[Guest]

You're my favorite poster on here. Enjoy your opinions, even when I don't agree with them.

 

I believe you know better than this, and that this is all due to the rage you mention. You know enough about baseball to know that Theo Epstein knows what he is doing. The problem with going through a rebuilding season and tearing something down -- whether people agreed it needed to or not -- is that it's going to be a painful thing to watch.

 

Things will be fine. We have the proper people in charge now. Brighter days are ahead. Within three years, we will be one of the best teams in the National League.

 

To even question Theo or wonder about things right now is ignorant. This wasn't supposed to be a good season. There will be better ones very soon.

 

I'm sorry, but just assuming/allowing a season to be bad isn't acceptable. It's like people are hoping that because they're so bad something good must come out of it, but sometimes a team is just bad and it just means you have an even deeper hole to dig out of. Again, it shouldn't ever be necessary for the Cubs to "tear a team down;" contrary to what is often said, it's not as if they're choked by long-term contracts for unproductive players. They have one of those. They're not beholden to the limitations of a small market team like the Royals or the Pirates. They have the luxury of having the option to rebuild AND not put a team of garbage on the field, and they failed to do so. That's not a good thing. The team being good in, say, three seasons and being horrible THIS season are not necessarily on the same path.

 

I understand. But doing some things this season to be better might have hurt the longer team goal of sustained success. The hole is not that deep. Theo used this season to see what things could stick and build around the 2012 and 2013 drafts. I believe that the Cubs will spend money this offseason to start filling some of the holes.

 

I know you think it's only Rizzo that they have done well with. But Travis Wood could still present value. LaHair has struggled, but that's still a win. Shark has developed when they gave him a chance to start. At least Ian is good on defense. DeJesus is fun to watch and a solid player.

 

One additional benefit to sucking besides high draft picks, is that the worst team in '12 will be allowed the most money to spend on international amateurs in 2013 (and with a huge gap compared to some of the normal big spenders in Latin America like the Yankees and Rangers).

[Bryants Disco Ball]

I get really happy when Starlin does something good. Sort of like when Sammy would hit a home run and the Cubs would lose, I was still happy.

[Guest]

One reason I can't knock Theo and co too much for this past offseason is that they got such a late start on it after getting established place in Chicago.

[Sammy Sofa]

Add Cespedes to that list, too. I still think he's going to be worth that 4-year deal.

 

And I have no idea what other moves that could have been made. Something tells me there were some out there when the current reality is fielding the worst team in baseball.

 

I mean, why do we have to excuse this? The front office failed completely and utterly. That doesn't mean they can't succeed down the line and we can't appreciate it, but why try and dress up a turd?

 

I mean, are you pissed because we might lose 100 games instead of 90? Why does that bother you so much?

 

Suck is suck.

 

What did the front office fail at? A three month rebuild in an offseason in which the 2 best players on the market were signed to contracts that a NL team would have to be criminally insane/stupid to sign?

 

Signing guys like Wilson (yes, I'm aware of the deal he took. Did the Cubs try to blow that one out of the water? I doubt it), Darvish and Cespedes would have been significantly building towards the future. God only knows if they'll get Soler. I'm not holding my breath. Again, I wasn't expecting a team that was good so much as one that you'd have more hope towards the near future. I'm sorry, but I don't right now. It's great seeing Shark break out and I can't wait to see Rizzo, but Jackson is extremely dicey. Almost all of the other moves are just these piddling little stopgap/hope and pray options. They're just in a horrible, horrible position right now to be competitive in the near future.

 

Again, I'm optimistic about what they can do down the line, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend like much good is going to come out of this season.

Edited May 27, 2012 by Sammy Sofa

[Fred Hornkohl]

This is the first time in their last 5 games that the CUBS scored multiple runs in an inning.

 

 

Go CUBS !!