Furcal to Cardinals

[Little Slide Rooter]

The 2011 Cubs are a lot more than one impact bat and starter from competing in 2012. Fielder + CJ + 2011 team - Aram, Pena, Wells is a .500 team at best even if Cashner comes back and pitches well. Maybe that sneaks into the playoffs but that team gets bounced in the first round (again). I've said this before - if you build a team to win the division maybe you do it. If you build a team to win the WS you have a much better chance. the Cubs aren't competing with the Cardinal and Brewers. The Cubs are competing with the Cardinals, Brewers, Red Sox, Yankees, Jays, Tigers etc. Winning the division shouldn't be the goal. I am frustrated as hell at this team and want to see changes across the board.

 

If we take Fielder from the Brewers, we'll be better than the Brewers. If the Cards lose Pujols, we'll be much better than them. Even if they retain him, they likely wont be any better than they are this year. If we can manage to sign Fielder and Wilson, wed be the division favs. Id love to add Ramirez to that mix if possible. As for making us good enough to win it all, there are always moves to be made in the summer.

[BeerHere]

The 2011 Cubs are a lot more than one impact bat and starter from competing in 2012. Fielder + CJ + 2011 team - Aram, Pena, Wells is a .500 team at best even if Cashner comes back and pitches well. Maybe that sneaks into the playoffs but that team gets bounced in the first round (again). I've said this before - if you build a team to win the division maybe you do it. If you build a team to win the WS you have a much better chance. the Cubs aren't competing with the Cardinal and Brewers. The Cubs are competing with the Cardinals, Brewers, Red Sox, Yankees, Jays, Tigers etc. Winning the division shouldn't be the goal. I am frustrated as hell at this team and want to see changes across the board.

 

If we take Fielder from the Brewers, we'll be better than the Brewers. If the Cards lose Pujols, we'll be much better than them. Even if they retain him, they likely wont be any better than they are this year. If we can manage to sign Fielder and Wilson, wed be the division favs. Id love to add Ramirez to that mix if possible. As for making us good enough to win it all, there are always moves to be made in the summer.

 

The 2012 Cardinals minus Pujols is a better team than the 2012 Cubs, other moves not withstanding. Likewise for the Brewers minus Fielder. I must be alone here. The Cubs are absolutely brutal and I honestly don't see an end in sight until there are a LOT of changes.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The 2011 Cubs are a lot more than one impact bat and starter from competing in 2012. Fielder + CJ + 2011 team - Aram, Pena, Wells is a .500 team at best even if Cashner comes back and pitches well. Maybe that sneaks into the playoffs but that team gets bounced in the first round (again). I've said this before - if you build a team to win the division maybe you do it. If you build a team to win the WS you have a much better chance. the Cubs aren't competing with the Cardinal and Brewers. The Cubs are competing with the Cardinals, Brewers, Red Sox, Yankees, Jays, Tigers etc. Winning the division shouldn't be the goal. I am frustrated as hell at this team and want to see changes across the board.

 

If we take Fielder from the Brewers, we'll be better than the Brewers. If the Cards lose Pujols, we'll be much better than them. Even if they retain him, they likely wont be any better than they are this year. If we can manage to sign Fielder and Wilson, wed be the division favs. Id love to add Ramirez to that mix if possible. As for making us good enough to win it all, there are always moves to be made in the summer.

 

The 2012 Cardinals minus Pujols is a better team than the 2012 Cubs, other moves not withstanding. Likewise for the Brewers minus Fielder. I must be alone here. The Cubs are absolutely brutal and I honestly don't see an end in sight until there are a LOT of changes.

 

You really dont have much faith in this team then. Wilson, Garza, Demp, Z, Cashner would be a very good rotation.

 

Brewers minus Fielder is likely something like

 

Gomez/Morgan

Weeks

Braun

Hart

Gamel

McGhee

LuCroy

? SS

 

Cubs w/ Fielder

Jackson

Castro

Byrd(cant think of anyone else)

Fielder

Soto

Soriano

? 3B

Barney

 

Cubs w/ Fielder+Ram

Jackson

Castro

Aram

Fielder

Byrd

Soto

Soriano

Barney

[SouthSideRyan]

Just saw your edit, and you're really not too far off from most of us.

 

I would like to see steps taken in the right direction. I would like to see a GM that is willing to admit mistakes and cut some dead weight. You want specifics:

1. Trade Geo. Let Castillo play and use the $ savings on another starter

 

The dollar savings from Geo to Castillo will net you a rehab project and not much else. I don't think you'll find a person on here that wouldn't want Castillo (or Clevenger) taking over for Hill.

 

2. Waive Soriano

 

A pointless let the fans feel good about themselves move. Bat him exclusively against lefties if you have to, waiving him (I assume with the intent for his unconditional release) implies he's worth less than whoever would replace him on the roster and that's pretty damn unlikely.

 

3. Sign Pujols or Fielder

Yep.

 

4. Wilson is better than I thought, pick him up

 

Yep.

 

5. If Aram picks up his option, then resign him for 2 years. If not then promote

 

Do you mean 2 years on top of the option? I'd rather not commit to 3 years for Ramirez, and I don't see any way he signs a reasonable 1 year extension on top of his option. I'd consider signing him to a 2 year deal if he declines the option, but it probably wouldn't make sense for him.

 

6. Find a real goddam coach that can handle a pitching staff, the media and the locker room

 

Quade's been a huge disappointment. I don't think managers matter much, but I think he's a bad one, shouldn't be tough to top him.

 

7. Invest heavily in the 2012 draft since the picks will be early

 

It sounds like we're already starting with the 2011 draft (obviously going to be a waiting game until Seligula lets us find out what's real and what's rumor. I'm probably most confident in this happening of all I want done.

[Little Slide Rooter]

 

 

 

5. If Aram picks up his option, then resign him for 2 years. If not then promote

 

Do you mean 2 years on top of the option? I'd rather not commit to 3 years for Ramirez, and I don't see any way he signs a reasonable 1 year extension on top of his option. I'd consider signing him to a 2 year deal if he declines the option, but it probably wouldn't make sense for him.

 

 

Its not in ARams hands, all in the Cubs. 2011 was a player option. 2012 is a team option.

[Guest]

I'm not even following the Cardinals anymore, but unless Furcal pitches I fail to see how this puts them over the top.

 

Of course, since I'm not following them anymore, they will win the GD pennant and La Russa will be back next season.

We haven't won a pennant in 60 plus years. Unreal you'd have this attitude on this board.

 

I refuse to support incompetence and the sacrifice of long-term success so that the whims of a petulant, 67-year-old crybaby are met. I am tired of seeing otherwise valuable pieces reduced to [expletive] because La Russa can't keep his [expletive] mouth shut. I am tired of seeing an organization that bows to someone who feels the need to swing their dick around in the media and show everyone how much smarter he is when they have reached the playoffs once in the past four seasons.

 

I'm tired of it. Until they dump the jackass I'm sitting out.

You mind if we hire Dave Duncan when your campaign to force out LaRussa proves successful?

[Guest]

Cubs w/ Fielder+Ram

Jackson

Castro

Aram

Fielder

Byrd

Soto

Soriano

Barney

Sexy, but there's no way Fielder should bat behind Aramis.

 

I like this lineup, too...

 

vs righties:

 

Jackson

Castro

Pujols

Aramis

Soto

Colvin

Byrd

Flaherty

 

vs Lefties:

 

Castro

Baker

Pujols

Aramis

Soriano

Soto

Byrd

Jackson / Colvin / RH 5th OF

[Little Slide Rooter]

Any chance we could end up with the rotation of:

 

Darvish

Wilson

Garza

Demp/Z

Z/Cashner

 

Probably not, but it would be awesome.

[BeerHere]

Sorry, but counting on Cashner next year is risky. I'm completely pulling for the guy but he missed basically an entire season with shoulder problems. The lack of depth in 2011 killed this team and while no one expects to lose 40% of the rotation on the same day, there needs to be some ready arms in case Cashner or someone else gets hurt. You need at least one of Beeler, Searle, Rusin to be ready. McNutt, Whitenack, Struck are options too I suppose later in the year. Jackson is a bullpen arm to me until he gets better control. All of these options are iffy at best. I'd like to see another starter signed (Edwin Jackson?) depending on how Cashner does the rest of this year and in winter ball.

 

Likewise, Dempster and Zambrano have to both be better than their 2011 seasons.

[SouthSideRyan]

I think most people's plans have been for Wells to have the 5 spot with Cashner in AAA, along with the assumption that McNutt can slot in at the 7 spot.

 

Edwin Jackson will be way too expensive, if you're looking for a vet to plug a hole, look to Marquis, Young, or Vazquez.

[Guest]

Any chance we could end up with the rotation of:

 

Darvish

Wilson

Garza

Demp/Z

Z/Cashner

 

Probably not, but it would be awesome.

 

It still seems unlikely that Darvish will come over this year and even if he does, his posting fee will be so high, I imagine it will take the Cubs at least out of the CJ Wilson bidding.

 

That said, there are some intriguing options coming out of Japan who could slot into the middle or back of the rotation nicely.

[BeerHere]

Any chance we could end up with the rotation of:

 

Darvish

Wilson

Garza

Demp/Z

Z/Cashner

 

Probably not, but it would be awesome.

 

It still seems unlikely that Darvish will come over this year and even if he does, his posting fee will be so high, I imagine it will take the Cubs at least out of the CJ Wilson bidding.

 

That said, there are some intriguing options coming out of Japan who could slot into the middle or back of the rotation nicely.

 

Have any of the Japanese imports done well for more than a couple starts to justify the cost? DiceK has been terrible for the RSox.

[Tarver]

Cubs w/ Fielder+Ram

Jackson

Castro

Aram

Fielder

Byrd

Soto

Soriano

Barney

Sexy, but there's no way Fielder should bat behind Aramis.

 

I like this lineup, too...

 

vs righties:

 

Jackson

Castro

Pujols

Aramis

Soto

Colvin

Byrd

Flaherty

 

vs Lefties:

 

Castro

Baker

Pujols

Aramis

Soriano

Soto

Byrd

Jackson / Colvin / RH 5th OF

 

Soriano 6th? That outfield has the potential to worse than 05's dismal unit. Our infield would have to carry the team, but midseason pickups would be necessary to get us anywhere.

 

Let's just focus on Fielder/Wilson and worry about serious contention after that.

[dew1679666265]

Soriano 6th? That outfield has the potential to worse than 05's dismal unit.

 

His scenario was that Soriano would bat 6th against lefties. That would be a good idea:

 

Soriano v lefties:

2011: .297/.342/.542/.882

Career: .282/.355/.534/.889

[SouthSideRyan]

Any chance we could end up with the rotation of:

 

Darvish

Wilson

Garza

Demp/Z

Z/Cashner

 

Probably not, but it would be awesome.

 

It still seems unlikely that Darvish will come over this year and even if he does, his posting fee will be so high, I imagine it will take the Cubs at least out of the CJ Wilson bidding.

 

That said, there are some intriguing options coming out of Japan who could slot into the middle or back of the rotation nicely.

 

Have any of the Japanese imports done well for more than a couple starts to justify the cost? DiceK has been terrible for the RSox.

 

Hideo Nomo was a slightly above average pitcher (overall) for an 11 year career. Kuroda's at 4 years and counting of being pretty damn good. Kaz Sasaki was a pretty good reliever, as was Hasegawa. Koji Uehara has been unhittable this season.

[dew1679666265]

Have any of the Japanese imports done well for more than a couple starts to justify the cost? DiceK has been terrible for the RSox.

 

Off the top of my head (and correct me if any of these guys weren't Japanese imports):

 

Hiroki Kuroda, Koji Uehara and Takashi Saito

[SouthSideRyan]

Cubs w/ Fielder+Ram

Jackson

Castro

Aram

Fielder

Byrd

Soto

Soriano

Barney

Sexy, but there's no way Fielder should bat behind Aramis.

 

I like this lineup, too...

 

vs righties:

 

Jackson

Castro

Pujols

Aramis

Soto

Colvin

Byrd

Flaherty

 

vs Lefties:

 

Castro

Baker

Pujols

Aramis

Soriano

Soto

Byrd

Jackson / Colvin / RH 5th OF

 

Soriano 6th? That outfield has the potential to worse than 05's dismal unit. Our infield would have to carry the team, but midseason pickups would be necessary to get us anywhere.

 

Let's just focus on Fielder/Wilson and worry about serious contention after that.

 

We'd have one of the best infields in baseball with that scenario.

[javy knows my name]

Cubs w/ Fielder+Ram

Jackson

Castro

Aram

Fielder

Byrd

Soto

Soriano

Barney

Sexy, but there's no way Fielder should bat behind Aramis.

 

I like this lineup, too...

 

vs righties:

 

Jackson

Castro

Pujols

Aramis

Soto

Colvin

Byrd

Flaherty

 

vs Lefties:

 

Castro

Baker

Pujols

Aramis

Soriano

Soto

Byrd

Jackson / Colvin / RH 5th OF

 

Soriano 6th? That outfield has the potential to worse than 05's dismal unit. Our infield would have to carry the team, but midseason pickups would be necessary to get us anywhere.

 

Let's just focus on Fielder/Wilson and worry about serious contention after that.

 

We'd have one of the best infields in baseball with that scenario.

 

Just like 05.

[Guest]

Any chance we could end up with the rotation of:

 

Darvish

Wilson

Garza

Demp/Z

Z/Cashner

 

Probably not, but it would be awesome.

 

It still seems unlikely that Darvish will come over this year and even if he does, his posting fee will be so high, I imagine it will take the Cubs at least out of the CJ Wilson bidding.

 

That said, there are some intriguing options coming out of Japan who could slot into the middle or back of the rotation nicely.

 

Have any of the Japanese imports done well for more than a couple starts to justify the cost? DiceK has been terrible for the RSox.

 

Hideo Nomo was a slightly above average pitcher (overall) for an 11 year career. Kuroda's at 4 years and counting of being pretty damn good. Kaz Sasaki was a pretty good reliever, as was Hasegawa. Koji Uehara has been unhittable this season.

 

Akinori Otsuka was pretty good too in his brief time here. All of those guys came over pretty cheap (unlike, say, Matsuzaka).

 

Here are the top Japanese FAs (who don't need to be posted): http://www.npbtracker.com/2011/07/hot-stove-preview-part-one-2012-free-agent-class/#content

 

The top pitchers are:

 

Hisashi Iwakuma

Wei-Yin Chen - he's only 26 so fewer innings on his arm

Tsuyoshi Wada

 

I believe I read somewhere the Cubs have been scouting Wei-Yin Chen as far back as 2009.

 

ETA:

 

NPB Tracker[/url]"]Sports Hochi is reporting that a number of MLB scouts were on hand to take in Chunichi Dragons ace Wei-Yin Chen’s latest win, a two-hit shutout over Hanshin at Koshien. Among them was Steve Wilson, the Cubs’ Director of Asia Pacific scouting, who commented “of course we know Chen, but I can’t talk about specific players.”

[dew1679666265]

Here are the top Japanese FAs (who don't need to be posted): http://www.npbtracker.com/2011/07/hot-stove-preview-part-one-2012-free-agent-class/#content

 

The top pitchers are:

 

Hisashi Iwakuma

Wei-Yin Chen - he's only 26 so fewer innings on his arm

Tsuyoshi Wada

 

What kind of contracts would guys like Iwakuma, Chen and Wada command, if you have any idea?

[Formerly Snayke]

Just wanted to note to nobody in particular that the hope and savior of the St. Louis center field has a .710 OPS over the past two months. That's a guy you sacrifice the better talent for, especially when you have no shot of getting into the NLCS.

[MWV]

I thought you were "sitting out" the remainder of this season.

[Formerly Snayke]

I thought you were "sitting out" the remainder of this season.

 

I can keep up with the team and point out their follies without watching them.

[javy knows my name]

I thought you were "sitting out" the remainder of this season.

 

I can keep up with the team and point out their follies without watching them.

 

Best fans in baseball, IMO

[Guest]

Here are the top Japanese FAs (who don't need to be posted): http://www.npbtracker.com/2011/07/hot-stove-preview-part-one-2012-free-agent-class/#content

 

The top pitchers are:

 

Hisashi Iwakuma

Wei-Yin Chen - he's only 26 so fewer innings on his arm

Tsuyoshi Wada

 

What kind of contracts would guys like Iwakuma, Chen and Wada command, if you have any idea?

 

No idea but certainly less than what Daisuke got. Chen is the most highly regarded of the trio. Iwakuma will probably come with a discount since he's hurt.