Prospects Received in Fukudome Trade

[dfnowak]

Here's who we received from Cleveland:

 

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=449165

 

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=RF&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=506687

 

Both look pretty mediocre to me. Abreu has more upside, but he looks to be the protypical Hendry guy...low walks and high K's. I wasn't expecting much in return for Fukudome, but doesn't look like we got much considering we are paying the majority of the rest of Fukudome's contract this year.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Calling these 2 mediocre is quite generous.

[sporrer17]

Abreu has some pop and speed, had a great July and he's coming off a couple player of the week awards this month. Other than that...he's been a very average minor leaguer at best. At least some upside exists?

[UMFan83]

Abreu has some pop and speed, had a great July and he's coming off a couple player of the week awards this month. Other than that...he's been a very average minor leaguer at best. At least some upside exists?

 

Wait, you are allowed to trade players at the peak of their value? Seems like that's exactly what the Indians did with Abreu. Because look at those numbers he's put up, he doesnt seem to have much upside at all considering his low OBP is going to potentially develop it's way though the Cubs minor leagues now.

[CubsWin]

Yech. Horrible trade. Pointless. I guess the Cubs saved a little money. But from a talent perspective might as well have gotten a cucumber.

[Sammy Sofa]

Yech. Horrible trade. Pointless. I guess the Cubs saved a little money. But from a talent perspective might as well have gotten a cucumber.

 

What? Why is it pointless? Kosuke was gone after this year regardless.

[toonsterwu]

I'm not enthused about either guy (particularly Abreu), but it was for Fukudome, in the last year of the deal, in a year where he had tailed off dramatically after his April start. It's a decent return. You get a lottery ticket in 22 year old Abreu, a toolsy, big armed, solid defensive player OF. I'm not too enthused, as I don't like his approach (particularly having seen him play so much), but it's a decent lottery ticket. In Smith, you get a dime-a-dozen upper level arm that could perhaps cycle in and out of major league middle relief duty at some point.

 

For Fukudome ... even accounting for the money we ate, that's a decent return.

[bcl412]

I see no reason getting too upset about this trade at all unless it comes out that we could have gotten someone else from another team who is better (we probably won't ever know if this is the case). We may get lucky with one of two prospects who aren't hightly touted and haven't performed well and if we don't so what? We were losing Koskue anyways unless he signs a new contract, something that could be done anyways.

[Bruno7481]

What did people realistically expect in return?

 

Fukudome wasn't coming back as has been pointed out. The Cubs received a couple of guys who most likely won't end up making much of a difference, but you never know. The Cubs have surely scouted these guys. They look like organizational players, but that is the nature of the deal. They weren't going to get back any type of top prospect.

[CubsWin]

Yech. Horrible trade. Pointless. I guess the Cubs saved a little money. But from a talent perspective might as well have gotten a cucumber.

 

What? Why is it pointless? Kosuke was gone after this year regardless.

It is pointless from a talent standpoint only. I have no problem trading him and saving whatever money they're going to, I'm just saying that if you are going to bother to get a player back, why ask for these guys? What's the point? Ask for some 18-year-old. These guys are already cooked.

[Sammy Sofa]

You're assuming that the other team involved would be willing to give up younger prospects.

[Guest]

BA's review: http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/majors/trade-central/2011/2612158.html

[CubsWin]

You're assuming that the other team involved would be willing to give up younger prospects.

I didn't say they had to be good. Just not be already cooked. Apparently the Cubs are eating a decent amount of his salary. That should count for something. Fukudome gets on base and is an excellent defensive RFer. The Indians are in the playoff hunt for the first time in a long time. If they're not willing to give an 18 year old with a chance for two months of Fukudome and an improved chance of going to the playoffs, then something's wrong.

 

I'm not unhappy that he was traded. A dollar saved is a dollar earned, but the Cubs already have enough organizational filler. Of course, if they keep signing guys in LA, the Pac Rim and from this year's draft, they'll have enough 18 year olds with a chance, too. :wink:

[Sammy Sofa]

Again, you're assuming teams would be willing to give up younger players. There's nothing "wrong" with teams not willing to do that; that's just the reality given what Kosuke is projected to bring to a team he is traded to.

[toonsterwu]

From May 1st and on, Kosuke's OBP has been, what, .330-.340. He's a guy who has been slumping, isn't getting on base at a significantly high clip, isn't driving the ball that much, is in the last year of his deal, and is an average to above average RF. I mean, I'm just not sure what he offers that would've warranted something more intriguing than this.

[Guest]

I'm just saying that if you are going to bother to get a player back, why ask for these guys? What's the point? Ask for some 18-year-old. These guys are already cooked.

 

I think that’s an unfair statement, especially with regards to Abreu. He’s 21 all year long, so let’s say that by year’s end the Cubs identify something that helps things click for him. Not in a “all the K’s go away” sense, but in a “not strike out 30% of the time” sense. So he spends the next 3 years at Daytona, Tennessee, and Iowa at age 22, 23, and 24(Rule 5 comes into play here somewhere, but I think it’s early enough that there’s little risk). Plus, thanks to his other gifts(huge arm, plus defense, strong baserunning) he can still add value even if he’s only mediocre with plate discipline. Is any of that likely/probable? Of course not. But not so much less likely than you're average prospect to give up on him from the start, especially with a new set of instructors for him to respond to differently.

[CubsWin]

The Indians did well to acquire Fukudome without giving up a player who was likely to help their big league club in the future.

Again, not displeased with the fact that he was traded, any money saved makes it worthwhile. But, IMO, they should've done better on the talent end and didn't.

[Sammy Sofa]

How?

[CubsWin]

How?

The deadline's not until the 31st. People often up their offer as the deadline approaches. Give less money in return for those guys and more money if they allow the Cubs to choose from a pool of other guys. There are ways to use leverage in negotiation. Cleveland wasn't in a good situation. Sizemore and Choo are on the DL. Fukudome gets on base and plays excellent defense. The Cubs paid all but $775,000 of the remaining 4.7 million. Use that leverage to get someone with a chance or have them pay more of the remaining salary and tell Cleveland to keep their minor leaguers.

 

It's not a big deal. I don't really care about who the Cubs got back, it wasn't going to be great, but these guys have virtually no possible future in the major leagues and Fukudome is going to help their major league club in getting to the playoffs. IMO, the Cubs gave more value than they got back. If you're going to get any players in return, why get organizational filler?

 

But what do I know. I'm not a scout. Maybe the Cubs crack scouting staff believes in these guys.

[Sammy Sofa]

I still don't understand why you're so convinced the Cubs could have gotten younger prospects if they wanted to. It's not like they had much leverage. "Oh, so you won't give us a better return for our expensive, declining, old corner OF who hits for almost no power and doesn't really play very good defense anymore? WELL, TOO BAD."

[Little Slide Rooter]

Considering the money they ate, I think they could have gotten a younger, lower level guy instead of the 25 year old reliever. Im not saying a top prospect, but someone more promising than a guy who may or may not be any better than Justin Berg.

[Sammy Sofa]

So then I will ask you, too; why do you think a team would give up a younger player? I guarantee you the only way they'd have a chance of that is if they took no money back. And it would probably have been only that one prospect. And even then it probably wouldn't have been offered. Fukudome has minimal value right now.

[toonsterwu]

Cubswin - That last crack about the Cubs crack scouting staff ... well, they actually, under Hendry, have done a decent job of mining minor leaguers in trades. They got Ceda/Archer/Rosscup/Mateo and others. There's been some misses, as with all teams (Fabian Jimenez-Angulo and Joel Santo deal comes to mind), but they do a fairly good job of scouting other orgs minor leagues.

 

All that said, as noted, I'm not enthused about either guy, particularly since I've seen Abreu a lot. That being said, what did the Cubs give up? Again, Kosuke from May 1st and on had a rough line of .245/.330-.340/.361. That's not that good of an OF. His defense isn't plus, and it's questionable if it's above average.

 

Who's really going to give up anyone of intrigue, even a far-away 18 year old, for a guy like that? It's more likely that he performs the way he has the last three months, than the way he performed in April. How much better is Kosuke than the guy they cut to create room for him, Travis Buck?

 

Again, I'm not sure we were working with that much value here. I don't like Abreu, but he's a decent lottery ticket who was working on swing adjustments.

[CubsWin]

I still don't understand why you're so convinced the Cubs could have gotten younger prospects if they wanted to. It's not like they had much leverage. "Oh, so you won't give us a better return for our expensive, declining, old corner OF who hits for almost no power and doesn't really play very good defense anymore? WELL, TOO BAD."

Then I guess we see Fukudome differently. And perhaps the bind Cleveland was in, too.

 

Cleveland is in the pennant race for the first time in a while. They have 2 starting OFers on the DL who aren't coming off anytime soon, at least not Sizemore. Fukudome isn't hitting for power this season, but he is getting on base and his defense is still very good. And I don't consider 34 old.

 

But if you see him as old and average defensively, then that explains why we disagree.

[toonsterwu]

Considering the money they ate, I think they could have gotten a younger, lower level guy instead of the 25 year old reliever. Im not saying a top prospect, but someone more promising than a guy who may or may not be any better than Justin Berg.

 

While I don't like Abreu, I tend to think he was the key to the deal and Carlton Smith was the throw-in.

 

I would've preferred the Cubs mine their lower levels for an arm as well.