Aramis Ramirez’s 2012 Option Does NOT Vest if He’s Traded

[Guest]

Link please.

[Backtobanks]

I think the platoon you mentioned being less productive than Aramis is the understatement of the year. Flaherty is an unproven rookie and Baker is really a downgrade in the power department.

 

Baker career v lefties: .533 SLG/.894 OPS

Aramis career v lefties: .528 SLG/.877 OPS

 

I'll concede that Flaherty is unproven and definitely a big question mark entering the year, but he'd only be facing righties in this scenario which should help his productivity. If he proves to not be ready, we have LeMahieu and DeWitt who can be tried in that role and I'd be all for seeking out a left handed hitting platoon option in FA/trade as well if the money is there.

 

Really, though, if Baker can produce as he has throughout his career against lefties, you don't need a huge year out of his platoon partner to get better than league average (.706 OPS) production at third. Obviously we want to shoot higher than middle of the pack and I think this platoon can.

 

That means Baker might be playing 20% of the time (against lefties) and the unproven rookie would be playing approximately 80% of the time.

[Little Slide Rooter]

There's no guarantee that the Cubs can sign Wilson. The Red Sox and Yankees will be looking for pitching. Pujols and Fielder are tough gets too. The Cubs should not let Aramis walk on hope of getting 2/3 of the best free agents available.

 

Should the Cubs have the mentality that we should immediately settle because we might get outbid? Assuming we don't decrease payroll (which all of this is based on anyway), we'll have as much as or more than anyone else to spend this offseason. It's certainly no sure thing that we'll get 2 of the top 3 free agents on the market, but I don't think we should throw in the towel without an effort either.

Settle? Aramis is the best 3rd baseman in the league and you want to let him walk hoping that some platoon can almost produce at his level and the Cubs can sign 2 of the 3 best FA.

 

Keep Aramis and get Fielder. Have the new GM kiss and make up with Z so they don't have to pay him to play somewhere else and use some minor league chips to get a fifth starter.

 

Ricketts already stated Z will be dealt.

 

No, he said that he can't see Z pitching for the Cubs again, but it will ultimately be up to the GM.

[Tarver]

Link please.

 

Chicago Cubs chairman Tom Ricketts, appearing on Sunday Night Baseball, said he has ‘‘a hard time imagining’’ starting pitcher Carlos Zambrano ever pitching again for the Cubs.

 

Zambrano has appealed being placed on the disqualified list, but Ricketts said Sunday on ESPN that the mercurial righthander’s time with the team probably is over.

 

‘‘His actions in Atlanta were unacceptable and not what you’d want from anyone on any team anywhere,’’ said Ricketts, who was then asked about Zambrano’s pitching again for the team. ‘‘I don’t know. We’ll cross that bridge when we come to it. I have a hard time imagining that. I have to see how it all plays out.’’

 

 

Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2011-08-22/cubs-owner-has-hard-time-imagining-zambranos-return#ixzz1Y9CycjpY

[dew1679666265]

That means Baker might be playing 20% of the time (against lefties) and the unproven rookie would be playing approximately 80% of the time.

 

I'm not sure of the exact percentages, but I'd say you're not far off. I'm not arguing we won't see a dropoff from Aramis to a Baker/Flaherty platoon, I'm arguing that that dropoff will be less than the increase we get going from McNutt/Whitenack/Struck/Cashner/middling FA/whoever to CJ Wilson. And that Wilson provides us with much more long term value than Aramis does.

[davearm2]

Link please.

 

Chicago Cubs chairman Tom Ricketts, appearing on Sunday Night Baseball, said he has ‘‘a hard time imagining’’ starting pitcher Carlos Zambrano ever pitching again for the Cubs.

 

Zambrano has appealed being placed on the disqualified list, but Ricketts said Sunday on ESPN that the mercurial righthander’s time with the team probably is over.

 

‘‘His actions in Atlanta were unacceptable and not what you’d want from anyone on any team anywhere,’’ said Ricketts, who was then asked about Zambrano’s pitching again for the team. ‘‘I don’t know. We’ll cross that bridge when we come to it. I have a hard time imagining that. I have to see how it all plays out.’’

 

 

Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2011-08-22/cubs-owner-has-hard-time-imagining-zambranos-return#ixzz1Y9CycjpY

No, the link where Ricketts says Z will be traded.

[Tarver]

Link please.

 

Chicago Cubs chairman Tom Ricketts, appearing on Sunday Night Baseball, said he has ‘‘a hard time imagining’’ starting pitcher Carlos Zambrano ever pitching again for the Cubs.

 

Zambrano has appealed being placed on the disqualified list, but Ricketts said Sunday on ESPN that the mercurial righthander’s time with the team probably is over.

 

‘‘His actions in Atlanta were unacceptable and not what you’d want from anyone on any team anywhere,’’ said Ricketts, who was then asked about Zambrano’s pitching again for the team. ‘‘I don’t know. We’ll cross that bridge when we come to it. I have a hard time imagining that. I have to see how it all plays out.’’

 

 

Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2011-08-22/cubs-owner-has-hard-time-imagining-zambranos-return#ixzz1Y9CycjpY

No, the link where Ricketts says Z will be traded.

 

I still think this is the best Cubs board around.

 

It was better when Meph was active and before the political BS of '08 sent some of the more conservative members packing, but it's better than listening to the sound of thousands of lips on Al Yellon's ass.

[SouthSideRyan]

O...k

[Sammy Sofa]

"Political BS?"

 

And a longing for the days of Meph?

 

For [expletive]'s sake.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Link please.

 

Chicago Cubs chairman Tom Ricketts, appearing on Sunday Night Baseball, said he has ‘‘a hard time imagining’’ starting pitcher Carlos Zambrano ever pitching again for the Cubs.

 

Zambrano has appealed being placed on the disqualified list, but Ricketts said Sunday on ESPN that the mercurial righthander’s time with the team probably is over.

 

‘‘His actions in Atlanta were unacceptable and not what you’d want from anyone on any team anywhere,’’ said Ricketts, who was then asked about Zambrano’s pitching again for the team. ‘‘I don’t know. We’ll cross that bridge when we come to it. I have a hard time imagining that. I have to see how it all plays out.’’

 

 

Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2011-08-22/cubs-owner-has-hard-time-imagining-zambranos-return#ixzz1Y9CycjpY

 

No, the link where Ricketts says Z will be traded.

 

I still think this is the best Cubs board around.

 

 

It was better when Meph was active and before the political BS of '08 sent some of the more conservative members packing, but it's better than listening to the sound of thousands of lips on Al Yellon's ass.

 

I like cookies.

 

And I'm looking forward to the season premier of Modern Family.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

 

I like cookies.

 

And I'm looking forward to the season premier of Modern Family.

 

Is this before or after some Project Runway?

[Backtobanks]

That means Baker might be playing 20% of the time (against lefties) and the unproven rookie would be playing approximately 80% of the time.

 

I'm not sure of the exact percentages, but I'd say you're not far off. I'm not arguing we won't see a dropoff from Aramis to a Baker/Flaherty platoon, I'm arguing that that dropoff will be less than the increase we get going from McNutt/Whitenack/Struck/Cashner/middling FA/whoever to CJ Wilson. And that Wilson provides us with much more long term value than Aramis does.

 

Being the best FA starter, I'm a little worried about the cost/years that Wilson may command. I think the best route for pitching might be through a trade. We don't match up with some of these teams tradewise, but the early speculation is that names like Shields, Floyd, and Jurrjens might be available. We might have to get a third team involved. :yahoo:

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

That means Baker might be playing 20% of the time (against lefties) and the unproven rookie would be playing approximately 80% of the time.

 

I'm not sure of the exact percentages, but I'd say you're not far off. I'm not arguing we won't see a dropoff from Aramis to a Baker/Flaherty platoon, I'm arguing that that dropoff will be less than the increase we get going from McNutt/Whitenack/Struck/Cashner/middling FA/whoever to CJ Wilson. And that Wilson provides us with much more long term value than Aramis does.

 

Being the best FA starter, I'm a little worried about the cost/years that Wilson may command. I think the best route for pitching might be through a trade. We don't match up with some of these teams tradewise, but the early speculation is that names like Shields, Floyd, and Jurrjens might be available. We might have to get a third team involved. :yahoo:

 

None of of those three really inspire me. They're good pitchers for sure, but they'd cost prospects as well as money and years. I'd much rather overpay for Wilson in money and years than overpay for a non-ace in prospects then money and years.

 

 

I still think that Wilson at 5/80-100 would be a coup as far as the Cubs adding talent. He's legit, and would become a fan favorite quickly. He as Garza have the same bulldog mentality that I fn love in a pitcher.

 

CJ Wilson IMO is going to age as well as any pitcher in baseball. He's just hitting his stride.

[dew1679666265]

Being the best FA starter, I'm a little worried about the cost/years that Wilson may command. I think the best route for pitching might be through a trade. We don't match up with some of these teams tradewise, but the early speculation is that names like Shields, Floyd, and Jurrjens might be available. We might have to get a third team involved. :yahoo:

 

I wouldn't oppose looking at a trade, especially if the bidding gets really intense for Wilson, but I have some of the same concerns as KKvG has. Wilson is clearly better than any of the three you mentioned with the only possible exception being Shields. With them being inferior pitchers, they'd have to be open to significantly less money than Wilson would get for it to make sense.

[Backtobanks]

That means Baker might be playing 20% of the time (against lefties) and the unproven rookie would be playing approximately 80% of the time.

 

I'm not sure of the exact percentages, but I'd say you're not far off. I'm not arguing we won't see a dropoff from Aramis to a Baker/Flaherty platoon, I'm arguing that that dropoff will be less than the increase we get going from McNutt/Whitenack/Struck/Cashner/middling FA/whoever to CJ Wilson. And that Wilson provides us with much more long term value than Aramis does.

 

Being the best FA starter, I'm a little worried about the cost/years that Wilson may command. I think the best route for pitching might be through a trade. We don't match up with some of these teams tradewise, but the early speculation is that names like Shields, Floyd, and Jurrjens might be available. We might have to get a third team involved. :yahoo:

 

None of of those three really inspire me. They're good pitchers for sure, but they'd cost prospects as well as money and years. I'd much rather overpay for Wilson in money and years than overpay for a non-ace in prospects then money and years.

 

 

I still think that Wilson at 5/80-100 would be a coup as far as the Cubs adding talent. He's legit, and would become a fan favorite quickly. He as Garza have the same bulldog mentality that I fn love in a pitcher.

 

CJ Wilson IMO is going to age as well as any pitcher in baseball. He's just hitting his stride.

 

I think other teams probably see what you see in him, so I think the bidding may very well go over 5/100 mark. While it would be great to get a #1 or #2 starter, a #3 or #4 at a lesser cost might not be a bad move behind Garza, Dempster, and possibly Wells.

[dew1679666265]

I think other teams probably see what you see in him, so I think the bidding may very well go over 5/100 mark. While it would be great to get a #1 or #2 starter, a #3 or #4 at a lesser cost might not be a bad move behind Garza, Dempster, and possibly Wells.

 

The thinking for me behind going after a top of the rotation guy is that our system is full of 3-5 type starters who should be ready within the next couple or three years. Much like the reasoning for going after a premiere bat, a top of the rotation pitcher is something the system simply won't produce for the next few years (maybe Ben Wells is our next best shot).

 

It almost seems like a waste of money/prospects to pursue a non-TOR guy since we've got so many of them nearly ready in the minors. If we're going to spend big money, it should be on something we won't have anytime soon - a legit TOR guy. And the benefit to Wilson specifically is that going by the mileage on his arm, it's like signing a guy in his mid-20s. He's only been starting for 2 seasons now.

[Backtobanks]

I think other teams probably see what you see in him, so I think the bidding may very well go over 5/100 mark. While it would be great to get a #1 or #2 starter, a #3 or #4 at a lesser cost might not be a bad move behind Garza, Dempster, and possibly Wells.

 

The thinking for me behind going after a top of the rotation guy is that our system is full of 3-5 type starters who should be ready within the next couple or three years. Much like the reasoning for going after a premiere bat, a top of the rotation pitcher is something the system simply won't produce for the next few years (maybe Ben Wells is our next best shot).

 

It almost seems like a waste of money/prospects to pursue a non-TOR guy since we've got so many of them nearly ready in the minors. If we're going to spend big money, it should be on something we won't have anytime soon - a legit TOR guy. And the benefit to Wilson specifically is that going by the mileage on his arm, it's like signing a guy in his mid-20s. He's only been starting for 2 seasons now.

 

The real question is what we can afford. Ramirez plus Pujols/Fielder probably puts us out of the Wilson bidding. Re-signing Pena and Ramirez should leave lots of money for Wilson.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I think other teams probably see what you see in him, so I think the bidding may very well go over 5/100 mark. While it would be great to get a #1 or #2 starter, a #3 or #4 at a lesser cost might not be a bad move behind Garza, Dempster, and possibly Wells.

 

The thinking for me behind going after a top of the rotation guy is that our system is full of 3-5 type starters who should be ready within the next couple or three years. Much like the reasoning for going after a premiere bat, a top of the rotation pitcher is something the system simply won't produce for the next few years (maybe Ben Wells is our next best shot).

 

It almost seems like a waste of money/prospects to pursue a non-TOR guy since we've got so many of them nearly ready in the minors. If we're going to spend big money, it should be on something we won't have anytime soon - a legit TOR guy. And the benefit to Wilson specifically is that going by the mileage on his arm, it's like signing a guy in his mid-20s. He's only been starting for 2 seasons now.

 

The real question is what we can afford. Ramirez plus Pujols/Fielder probably puts us out of the Wilson bidding. Re-

signing Pena and Ramirez should leave lots of money for Wilson.

 

Assuming that Z is dumped, and the rest of our offseason is retaining Pena, Ramirez, and signing Wilson, how much better is our team than the one we have now? Somewhat, but not enough to make a big difference. Wilson, Garza, Demp, Cash, and Wells is a solid enough rotation, but Even assuming that Castro, Aramis and Pena put up what they are this year, We'd still be counting on Soriano, Byrd, Soto, and Barney, as well as Brett Jackson.

[biittner77]

I'm going to throw this out there. If they can't afford to bring back Ramirez, why not move Soto to 3rd part time. He has a career ops of .800 which would put him at the very least average among 3rd basemen. There's a better than average chance he could improve his offensive numbers without the physical demands trying to catch 130 or so games a year. A platoon with Baker starting at 3rd against LHP and Soto catching those days would keep his bat in the lineup every day.

 

I'm fairly certain the Cubs had Soto play some 3rd early on in his minor league career. He would certainly have the arm for 3rd and it's not like he'd be replacing Brooks Robinson defensively. I realize a big part of Soto's value is getting his production from the catching position but perhaps the reason for his good-bad-good-bad production has something to do with playing the most punishing position in the entire sport.

[SouthSideRyan]

Soto played 3 games at 3B in the minors, the last of them occurring 8 years ago. You wind up with a horrendous defender at 3B, and you're not even guaranteeing better production when you have Castillo/Clevenger behind the plate for 130 games.

[dew1679666265]

The real question is what we can afford. Ramirez plus Pujols/Fielder probably puts us out of the Wilson bidding. Re-signing Pena and Ramirez should leave lots of money for Wilson.

 

The point I've been making this entire thread is that we should let Aramis walk to (hopefully) free up the money to sign Wilson and one of Pujols/Fielder. Wilson is a better short and long term investment than Aramis at this point.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The real question is what we can afford. Ramirez plus Pujols/Fielder probably puts us out of the Wilson bidding. Re-signing Pena and Ramirez should leave lots of money for Wilson.

 

The point I've been making this entire thread is that we should let Aramis walk to (hopefully) free up the money to sign Wilson and one of Pujols/Fielder. Wilson is a better short and long term investment than Aramis at this point.

 

I think that we could move Byrd for his entire salary and hopefully get 5 mil for Z. That would free up something like 11 mil. Maybe even try to get 10-15 mil for Soriano, off of the rest of his contract of course, not per year. Yeah, that would give us a pretty crappy outfield next year, probably consisting of Jackson, one of Colvin or LaHair who could maybe platoon with Reed Johnson if he'd come back cheap enough and some cheap FA or trade. Im OK with that next year because even if we did get Wilson and Fielder, we'd still be building more for 2013 than '12, and hopefully go for Kemp or Ethier the next year.

[dew1679666265]

I think that we could move Byrd for his entire salary and hopefully get 5 mil for Z. That would free up something like 11 mil. Maybe even try to get 10-15 mil for Soriano, off of the rest of his contract of course, not per year. Yeah, that would give us a pretty crappy outfield next year, probably consisting of Jackson, one of Colvin or LaHair who could maybe platoon with Reed Johnson if he'd come back cheap enough and some cheap FA or trade. Im OK with that next year because even if we did get Wilson and Fielder, we'd still be building more for 2013 than '12, and hopefully go for Kemp or Ethier the next year.

 

Trading Byrd, Soriano, and Z and getting next to nothing in return (other than a little salary relief) would be of little benefit to us. You'd be going into the offseason with 3 holes in the OF (one presumably would be filled by BJax, though) and two open spots in the rotation, with Wells being a major question mark as well. A Reed/Colvin/LaHair platoon might fill Soriano's void, but there's no way we'll replace Byrd's production for a cost remotely close to how little he's being paid.

 

We should have the funding to sign both Fielder/Pujols and Wilson without dismantling half our team in the process.

[TruffleShuffle]

Soto at third would be hilariously awesome. The cubs could break the record for most bunt hits allowed in a season.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Marlins Targeting Aramis Ramirez

By Zach Links [september 18 at 8:32pm CST]

The Marlins are moving into a brand new retractable ballpark in 2012 and they'll look to make a big splash on the open market this winter, writes Joe Frisaro of MLB.com. Cubs third baseman Aramis Ramirez is one of the top free agents who is clearly on the Marlins' radar.

 

Internally, the club views him as a good fit for a lineup as they look to add an established veteran to a youthful squad. The addition of Ramirez would also give rookie Matt Dominguez more time to develop.

 

The Fish may also wind up making inquiries on top free agents Albert Pujols, Prince Fielder, and Jose Reyes. Sources say that the Marlins will also explore signing C.J. Wilson and the left-hander is already being talked about.

 

 

Havnt seen this posted.