Rays sign Johnny Damon and Manny Ramirez

[TruffleShuffle]

What does wanting Ramirez to bunt or not have to do with calling someone a meatball (whatever the hell that is) because he has the audacity to think that a guy that quit on his team already once in his career because he wasn't happy with his pay might possibly do the same again?

 

ramirez started goofing off in boston because he was upset they weren't signing him to a contract extension. that's a completely different situation than playing for a lot less money than he made the previous year.

 

also, the year he was traded from boston he had a .926 OPS for the red sox. the last time a cub outfielder had an OPS that good over 400 PA's was sammy sosa in 2002. so let's hope that we can find some outfielders who quit on us as well as manny quit on the red sox.

[davearm2]

What does wanting Ramirez to bunt or not have to do with calling someone a meatball (whatever the hell that is) because he has the audacity to think that a guy that quit on his team already once in his career because he wasn't happy with his pay might possibly do the same again?

 

ramirez started goofing off in boston because he was upset they weren't signing him to a contract extension. that's a completely different situation than playing for a lot less money than he made the previous year.

 

also, the year he was traded from boston he had a .926 OPS for the red sox. the last time a cub outfielder had an OPS that good over 400 PA's was sammy sosa in 2002. so let's hope that we can find some outfielders who quit on us as well as manny quit on the red sox.

I don't quite follow how the historical futility of the Cubs' outfield relates to Manny Ramirez' likelihood of flaking out this year.

 

Neverthless if you're going that route, then it needs to be pointed out that the Cubs have never paid a guy as much as Boston paid Ramirez either.

[TruffleShuffle]

the point is that a .926 OPS is really [expletive] good and maybe people should stop acting like he just mailed it in and became completely unproductive.

[Illini Iceman]

the point is that a .926 OPS is really [expletive] good and maybe people should stop acting like he just mailed it in and became completely unproductive.

 

That also isn't a completely fair statement because toward the end before he was traded there is no doubt that he was completely mailing it in even if his overall numbers were propped up by success earlier in the season. It is revisionist history to deny that his actions essentially forced the Red Sox to trade him.

 

I do actually think that Manny is a better signing for the Rays than Damon. If he gets off to a really hot start, however, he might start thinking extension, etc and let it affect his attitude. He seems like a guy that needs to feel the love.

[Sammy Sofa]

That's a hell of a prop.

[Illini Iceman]

That's a hell of a prop.

 

Yes, but then he decided to quit and force the Red Sox to trade him or give him an extension.

[TruffleShuffle]

That also isn't a completely fair statement because toward the end before he was traded there is no doubt that he was completely mailing it in even if his overall numbers were propped up by success earlier in the season. It is revisionist history to deny that his actions essentially forced the Red Sox to trade him.

 

he was traded on the last day of july or first day of august or something. his numbers in july:

 

.347/.473/.587/1.060

 

care to revisit your argument?

[Illini Iceman]

That also isn't a completely fair statement because toward the end before he was traded there is no doubt that he was completely mailing it in even if his overall numbers were propped up by success earlier in the season. It is revisionist history to deny that his actions essentially forced the Red Sox to trade him.

 

he was traded on the last day of july or first day of august or something. his numbers in july:

 

.347/.473/.587/1.060

 

care to revisit your argument?

 

No. He was refusing to pinch hit, insisting on a days off when the team needed him, etc. He most definitely was making life miserable for the team in an attempt to force their hand on the extension or trade.

[TruffleShuffle]

That also isn't a completely fair statement because toward the end before he was traded there is no doubt that he was completely mailing it in even if his overall numbers were propped up by success earlier in the season. It is revisionist history to deny that his actions essentially forced the Red Sox to trade him.

 

he was traded on the last day of july or first day of august or something. his numbers in july:

 

.347/.473/.587/1.060

 

care to revisit your argument?

 

No. He was refusing to pinch hit, insisting on a days off when the team needed him, etc. He most definitely was making life miserable for the team in an attempt to force their hand on the extension or trade.

 

oh ok, so you are standing by your argument that he was completely mailing it in and his numbers were propped up by his success earlier in the season, even though he had an OPS of 1.060 in the month immediately before he was traded. seems like a poor stance to take, but that's your call.

 

there were two games in july that he didn't play in; according to the game recaps, he had sat out with a sore right knee. he made two PH appearances earlier in the month.

 

and all these things that you're talking about, this isn't unique to that one season or one month. i went to the first half of a doubleheader at fenway and manny was thrown out in the first inning of the first game for arguing balls and strikes. francona had told him that he wouldn't play in the second game, so he played the field for half an inning in game one, struck out and then sat out the rest of the day.

[Rob]

Truffle wins.

[Sammy Sofa]

That's a hell of a prop.

 

Yes, but then he decided to quit and force the Red Sox to trade him or give him an extension.

 

But you said his numbers were just inflated by his performance earlier in the season. They weren't.

[Illini Iceman]

Clearly Epstein thought there was a problem as well or he wouldn't have traded Ramirez to get Bay who statistically is not as good.

[Sammy Sofa]

There was a problem.

 

He didn't "mail it in."

 

This isn't complicated.

[TruffleShuffle]

Clearly Epstein thought there was a problem as well or he wouldn't have traded Ramirez to get Bay who statistically is not as good.

 

that may be true - manny wouldn't shut the hell up in the press and was generally acting like a douche - but bay was younger, considerably cheaper and better defensively, and was under team control for another year. he OPS'ed over .900 for the red sox in a little over a year, and produced a 5.0 WAR in 2009 for $7.8 million (fantastic value). so i suppose you can argue that they traded ramirez just because he was a pain in the ass, but bay is a very good player and from a production perspective, the trade was a huge plus for the red sox.