Trade Z to Yanks..NOW!

[dew1679666265]

I was speaking more in terms of basic production numbers, not rates, but even when Jason Heyward was the #1 prospect in baseball, scouts and analysts were calling Montero arguably the best pure hitter in the minor leagues. The guy is going to be an offensive powerhouse. His defense might be for [expletive], but his offense is going to be special. He put up an .870 OPS as a catcher in AAA at the age of 20 and that was a down year for him. The guy is going to be great.

 

Even if you look at just counting numbers, you're either seriously overrating Montero or seriously underrating Soto. In the minors Montero has hit 27 homers once and 17 homers once. Soto's peaked at 23 in 564 PAs and he hit 17 in 387 PAs this year.

 

Montero could be a really, really good player, but he'd be rather transcendent for a catcher if his average year is Soto's best, because Soto's best is as good as any catcher in the majors nearly.

[Guest]

I was speaking more in terms of basic production numbers, not rates, but even when Jason Heyward was the #1 prospect in baseball, scouts and analysts were calling Montero arguably the best pure hitter in the minor leagues. The guy is going to be an offensive powerhouse.

 

This seems like some serious revisionist history.

[Clem Fandango]

I was speaking more in terms of basic production numbers, not rates, but even when Jason Heyward was the #1 prospect in baseball, scouts and analysts were calling Montero arguably the best pure hitter in the minor leagues. The guy is going to be an offensive powerhouse.

 

This seems like some serious revisionist history.

 

It's not. A lot of places said Montero's bat was one of the best in the minors, if not THE best. He wasn't atop the lists because outside of his bat, everything else that goes into begin a top prospect needed a lot of work, IIRC. His defense especially was (and still is, as far as I know) a big question mark, but I'm pretty sure there weren't many people who didn't consider his bat to be MLB ready at the beginning of the season.

 

Obviously there's no way to prove that, but I just personally believe that Montero has the ability to provide some very serious offensive production. Whether or not his defense improves or if he even sticks at catcher is to be determined, but his bat can play at the MLB level right now

[davell]

Soto for Montero straight up. Consider the Yankees didn't just sign Martin. Who says no?

[dew1679666265]

Soto for Montero straight up. Consider the Yankees didn't just sign Martin. Who says no?

 

I'd lean toward no, but might be talked into it. The only reason I consider it is because Soto is 28 and may only have 2-3 really good years left in him. We could potentially get 2-3 times that out of Montero.

 

The problem with Montero, though, is that he likely won't be much better than Soto at his peak and if he needs to move from catcher, he loses a ton of his value.

[Clem Fandango]

Soto for Montero straight up. Consider the Yankees didn't just sign Martin. Who says no?

 

I'd lean toward no, but might be talked into it. The only reason I consider it is because Soto is 28 and may only have 2-3 really good years left in him. We could potentially get 2-3 times that out of Montero.

 

The problem with Montero, though, is that he likely won't be much better than Soto at his peak and if he needs to move from catcher, he loses a ton of his value.

 

That's the caveat with him. You move him to first and he becomes an above average 1B (offensively speaking), but that's about it. A .300/25/100 season for a first baseman his fine... great even, though it's far from elite. You put that line up at catcher and you might be the best offensive catcher in the game, which he probably will be capable of doing if things pan out for him.

 

His value really depends on whether he improves his catching ability. If he played any other position he probably would be a Top 25 prospect instead of a Top 5

[Clem Fandango]

Soto for Montero straight up. Consider the Yankees didn't just sign Martin. Who says no?

 

This year and this year alone, it depends on how the rest of the offseason pans out. If we don't make any more moves, yes. If we make a couple that could pay big dividends in the form of a realistic world series run, no. Soto would be too valuable in that situation, but if we're out of it at the deadline, and the next couple of years are looking bleak, I'd do it in a heartbeat. No point in keeping and paying Soto a premium to play on a non-playoff caliber team when we could be paying a much younger Montero league minimum to put up similar numbers.

[KingCubsFan]

Soto for Montero straight up. Consider the Yankees didn't just sign Martin. Who says no?

 

I'd lean toward no, but might be talked into it. The only reason I consider it is because Soto is 28 and may only have 2-3 really good years left in him. We could potentially get 2-3 times that out of Montero.

 

The problem with Montero, though, is that he likely won't be much better than Soto at his peak and if he needs to move from catcher, he loses a ton of his value.

 

That's the caveat with him. You move him to first and he becomes an above average 1B (offensively speaking), but that's about it. A .300/25/100 season for a first baseman his fine... great even, though it's far from elite. You put that line up at catcher and you might be the best offensive catcher in the game, which he probably will be capable of doing if things pan out for him.

 

His value really depends on whether he improves his catching ability. If he played any other position he probably would be a Top 25 prospect instead of a Top 5

Some of the reports I've read suggest he could move to 1st and still be an offensive force.

[Clem Fandango]

Soto for Montero straight up. Consider the Yankees didn't just sign Martin. Who says no?

 

I'd lean toward no, but might be talked into it. The only reason I consider it is because Soto is 28 and may only have 2-3 really good years left in him. We could potentially get 2-3 times that out of Montero.

 

The problem with Montero, though, is that he likely won't be much better than Soto at his peak and if he needs to move from catcher, he loses a ton of his value.

 

That's the caveat with him. You move him to first and he becomes an above average 1B (offensively speaking), but that's about it. A .300/25/100 season for a first baseman his fine... great even, though it's far from elite. You put that line up at catcher and you might be the best offensive catcher in the game, which he probably will be capable of doing if things pan out for him.

 

His value really depends on whether he improves his catching ability. If he played any other position he probably would be a Top 25 prospect instead of a Top 5

Some of the reports I've read suggest he could move to 1st and still be an offensive force.

 

Perhaps, but I don't think he'd be in Pujols territory or anything. He'd definitely be a valuable commodity there, but nowhere near as valuable as he would be at catcher.

[davell]

Soto for Montero straight up. Consider the Yankees didn't just sign Martin. Who says no?

 

I'd lean toward no, but might be talked into it. The only reason I consider it is because Soto is 28 and may only have 2-3 really good years left in him. We could potentially get 2-3 times that out of Montero.

 

The problem with Montero, though, is that he likely won't be much better than Soto at his peak and if he needs to move from catcher, he loses a ton of his value.

 

 

I actually think this could be a deal that neither team would do this deal. I don't think the Cubs would do it because of Soto's current production and the fact that Montero may not stick at C. And I don't think the Yankees would do it, because I doubt Soto is as well thought of as he probably should be. I know Cashman would value him, but I think that the Yankees COULD actually think of the fans as having a backlash for doing this, since they probably think Montero should get them someone who's CONSIDERED a superstar.......

 

Myself, I'd probably pull the trigger on it. We only have Soto for 3 more years and he could even start trending downward before that's over with. And I wouldn't want to see us give him an extension past then either. While I'm not sure Montero can stick at C either, if he's a bigtime bat at 1B even, I think it'd be worth it longterm for us to make it happen. Mainly because of the extra years of player control and it'd free up even more money to go spend on other spots as well eventually.

[dew1679666265]

Myself, I'd probably pull the trigger on it. We only have Soto for 3 more years and he could even start trending downward before that's over with. And I wouldn't want to see us give him an extension past then either. While I'm not sure Montero can stick at C either, if he's a bigtime bat at 1B even, I think it'd be worth it longterm for us to make it happen. Mainly because of the extra years of player control and it'd free up even more money to go spend on other spots as well eventually.

 

I don't know whether he'd be a big time bat or not outside of catcher. He might be, but I tend to agree with The Logan that he'd be an above average first baseman. I'd hate to give up Soto for a guy who might not be an impact type player.

 

Soto's defense has to be taken into account as well, as he's a very good defensive catcher. Even if Montero was a little better offensively and could stick at catcher, Soto's defense would likely make them even. Then you have to weigh Montero's youth with the real possibility he doesn't pan out.

 

And we're not paying Soto a premium. Throughout his arbitration years he should be a very good value if he can continue to be an .850-.900 OPS guy with plus defense.

[Clem Fandango]

And we're not paying Soto a premium. Throughout his arbitration years he should be a very good value if he can continue to be an .850-.900 OPS guy with plus defense.

 

This is true, and next season a lot of money will come off the books so if a big raise for him is due to a big year, we should be able to easily afford it... but why spend that money if the team itself doesn't stand a chance of competing? This is all speculative, obviously, but I'd rather have the catcher you build around for the future at league minimum in that situation (if it arose)

[dew1679666265]

This is true, and next season a lot of money will come off the books so if a big raise for him is due to a big year, we should be able to easily afford it... but why spend that money if the team itself doesn't stand a chance of competing? This is all speculative, obviously, but I'd rather have the catcher you build around for the future at league minimum in that situation (if it arose)

 

Because the team does stand a chance of competing. While I think it's unlikely this team makes the playoffs this year, it's still a real possibility with how terrible the division is (and has gotten progressively moreso over the offseason) that the Cubs can make it. Certainly over the next 3 years, this team should continue to get better and have a chance to be a good to very good team within that time frame. Soto would be a big part of that.

[Clem Fandango]

According to SI.com's Jon Heyman, the Yankees have no intention of attempting a trade for Cubs right-hander Carlos Zambrano.

The Yankees obviously feel a need to add a quality starter after missing out on left-hander Cliff Lee, but they're not desperate enough to bring Big Z on board. The Cubs righty will probably stay put when all is said and done. He posted a 3.33 ERA and 1.45 WHIP in 2010 for Chicago.

[Cubs Fan Dan]

According to SI.com's Jon Heyman, the Yankees have no intention of attempting a trade for Cubs right-hander Carlos Zambrano.

The Yankees obviously feel a need to add a quality starter after missing out on left-hander Cliff Lee, but they're not desperate enough to bring Big Z on board. The Cubs righty will probably stay put when all is said and done. He posted a 3.33 ERA and 1.45 WHIP in 2010 for Chicago.

 

Good, no reason to trade him to the Yanks unless we get prospects and they pay for him. Z will put up his career averages if he is just left inteh rotation to pitch. He also will win a silver slugger, I do not get why a lot of people think Z is not good at baseball.