Better farm system

[CubfanBen]

i was having an argument a couple weeks ago with a couple of Brewers fans who said that they think their system is way better than ours and it's not even close. They said they have way more depth than us. I told them that a couple years ago I would've agreed with them but not now. I mean pur pitching depth is way better than theirs. They said we have no depth but I believe depth is one of our systems strongpoints.. What do you guys think?

[Guest]

Jim Callis thinks the Cubs have the best system in the division:

 

Matt C (Ankeny, IA): How does the Cubs' farm system compare to the other teams in the NL Central?

 

Jim Callis: I think it's the best. Whenever someone writes a particular list, they often tend to think that club's talent is better than someone else might. But I see the Cubs as having more top-end talent and more depth than any of the NL Central farm systems.

[TruffleShuffle]

not the astros?

[CubfanBen]

Yeah I live in Wisconsin and I have to constantly hear about how good the Brewers system is. They act like they can get every single player and scout everywhere. They don't even scout that much in latin america.

[Guest]

Yeah I live in Wisconsin and I have to constantly hear about how good the Brewers system is. They act like they can get every single player and scout everywhere. They don't even scout that much in latin america.

 

They do sign bigger names than the Cubs down there. The Cubs own South Korea, though.

 

I think Escobar is overrated but he's definitely a top 40 guy. Wow, Gamel is still a rookie by 2 at bats, I didn't know that. Escobar and Gamel isn't a solid top 2 - reminiscent of Castro and Vitters in fact.

 

Jeffress is too high to do anything. I do like Arnett.

[Outshined_One]

Yeah I live in Wisconsin and I have to constantly hear about how good the Brewers system is. They act like they can get every single player and scout everywhere. They don't even scout that much in latin america.

 

They do sign bigger names than the Cubs down there. The Cubs own South Korea, though.

 

I think Escobar is overrated but he's definitely a top 40 guy. Wow, Gamel is still a rookie by 2 at bats, I didn't know that. Escobar and Gamel isn't a solid top 2 - reminiscent of Castro and Vitters in fact.

 

Jeffress is too high to do anything. I do like Arnett.

 

Lawrie has good potential. As does Scarpetta.

 

After that, well, I can't say there's a whole lot.

[CubfanBen]

The Brewers do sign some big names in Latin America, but they don't really amount to anything except for maybe Escobar. The Cubs don't sign as many big name guys, but we do end up signing a lot of under the radar guys like Castro who turn out to be better than the big names the Brewers sign. Also I do believe the Cubs have more of a presence in Latin America than the Brewers do considering we have two academies in the Dominican Republic while they don't even have one. But in Korea and other parts of the world your right, it's not even close.

[Guest]

The Brewers do sign some big names in Latin America, but they don't really amount to anything except for maybe Escobar. The Cubs don't sign as many big name guys, but we do end up signing a lot of under the radar guys like Castro who turn out to be better than the big names the Brewers sign. Also I do believe the Cubs have more of a presence in Latin America than the Brewers do considering we have two academies in the Dominican Republic while they don't even have one. But in Korea and other parts of the world your right, it's not even close.

 

Alcides Escobar signed for a smaller bonus than Starlin Castro. He definitely wasn't a big name signing.

[CubfanBen]

Yeah, but it just seems from what I read lately they've been giving a lot of money to guys out of latin america, like just a couple of days ago they signed some 16 year old kid from the DR. A lot of these guys haven't really worked out for them, at least so far. Our last big name signing from Latin America was probably Larry Suarez, but since then we've had a lot more under the radar signings.

[toonsterwu]

As of right now, I don't think the two systems are all that close. In a year's time, who knows. There is a solid collection of young arms in the low levels for the Brewers, so they could bounce back in a year or two if those guys develop. But too few top level talent, average overall depth = weak-average system. That said, the difference between a weak system and a decent one, which is where we're at, is never as much as people make it out to be. It could be one draft, or in the Brewers case, it could be one developmental cycle. They have a really nice group of arms in Arnett, Odorizzi, Heckathorn, Scarpetta, Peralta. What they need to hope is that those arms develop fast enough to pair with their young positional talent that's up in the bigs (or at least, develop fast enough to create value to help them find pieces to pair with their young positional talent).

[davell]

Yeah, but it just seems from what I read lately they've been giving a lot of money to guys out of latin america, like just a couple of days ago they signed some 16 year old kid from the DR. A lot of these guys haven't really worked out for them, at least so far. Our last big name signing from Latin America was probably Larry Suarez, but since then we've had a lot more under the radar signings.

 

 

We signed a Catcher named Willson Contreras this year to supposedly an 850,000 bonus actually. Although, I'm pretty sure he's going to miss 50 games for testing positive for PEDS next year.

[CubfanBen]

Yeah, I don't know if Contreras is gonna be any good. On milb.com he was listed as a third baseman I believe. Even when he did play he didn't do good at all.

[scarey]

Yeah, I don't know if Contreras is gonna be any good. On milb.com he was listed as a third baseman I believe. Even when he did play he didn't do good at all.

 

 

 

... he's 17 years old and I think the $850k bonus tells us more about his potential than 29 games in the DSL.

[Guest]

It depends on Arangure's information. He said it was rumored that Contreras got $850,000 and no one else mentioned a bonus figure with him.

[CubfanBen]

"he's 17 years old and I think the $850k bonus tells us more about his potential than 29 games in the DSL." Yeah I guess you're right. We should give him some more time annd if he was paid that much he must have some potential. Do you know when he's coming back next year?

[toonsterwu]

Was listening to the podcast from baseballamerica on the nl central, with jj cooper and ben badler. they basically agreed that it was the cubs with the best system, although both of them liked the reds a lot (they feel the reds have a high floor system). Badler was big on Jay Jackson, as usual (made the case that he could get ranked ahead of Shelby Miller - JJ Cooper sort of agreed, but said that Shelby's raw potential would likely lead to several teams taking a chance on him over Jackson if they had a choice right now). Both made the case that a bunch of Cubs could fit ahead of Jamie Garcia - another way for them to show that the Cubs system was that much better. They said Pedro Alvarez was the best prospect in the NL Central (I agree), although, off the top, I think they loosely argued that Castro wouldn't be far behind. While they like some aspects of the Pirates system, they felt the talent dropped off too fast (discussed Tabata as the number 2 and how he was quicker than people expected, but if he can't stick in CF, then he isn't really a starting corner OF due to the lack of power). Surprisingly, didn't talk about the Brewers system much. They really liked Alcides Escobar and thought he could be better, next year, than Elvis Andrus was this year.

 

Granted, this is all from the BA family, but for the most part, I think it's fairly clear that, as of now, the Cubs system is ahead of the Brewers.